• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

The Nicolaitans: What did they teach?

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists-Discussion Zone' started by NightEternal, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    There have been a few threads going on where the law and the commandments are being hotly debated. There have been charges of 'lawless theology' flying around. This has brought to my mind the topic of the Nicolaitans, as it is common Adventist thought to draw parallels between the Nicolaitans and antinomianism or lawlessness.

    Who were they? What did they teach? Why does God abhor what they teach and why does John write so scathingly against them?

    Revelation 2:15

    [​IMG]
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    'So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    You also have some who follow what the Nicolaitans teach.
    King James Bible
    So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
    American Standard Version
    So hast thou also some that hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans in like manner.
    Bible in Basic English
    And you have those who keep the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaites.
    Darby Bible Translation
    So thou also hast those who hold the doctrine of Nicolaitanes in like manner.
    English Revised Version
    So hast thou also some that hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans in like manner.
    Tyndale New Testament
    Even so hast thou them that maintain the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
    Weymouth New Testament
    So even you have some that cling in the same way to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
    World English Bible
    So you also have some who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans likewise.
    Young's Literal Translation
    So hast thou, even thou, those holding the teaching of the Nicolaitans -- which thing I hate.

    Revelation 2:6

    [​IMG]
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    'Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    But you have this in your favor-you hate what the Nicolaitans are doing. I also hate what they're doing.
    King James Bible
    But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
    American Standard Version
    But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    Bible in Basic English
    But at least you have the credit of hating the works of the Nicolaitans, as I do.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaites, which I also hate.
    Darby Bible Translation
    But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
    English Revised Version
    But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    Tyndale New Testament
    But this thou hast because thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which deeds I also hate.
    Weymouth New Testament
    Yet this you have in your favor: you hate the doings of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    World English Bible
    But this you have, that you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    Young's Literal Translation
    But this thou hast, that thou dost hate the works of the Nicolaitans, that I also hate.

    I want to have a clear idea of what the ideology is of the Nicolaitans and what they taught, so that I can avoid it, because I do not want to be privy to something that Scripture rebukes in such strong terms! :eek:
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    THE NICOLAITANS

    [​IMG]

    "I know that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate." The Nicolaitans were a sect of base antinomians which had arisen in those early days of Christianity. They contended that since we are saved by grace and are free from the law, nothing is evil. They made every excuse for lewdness and licentiousness. John Gill tells us that the Nicolaitans "committed fornication, adultery, and all uncleanness, and had their wives in common." All this evil was practiced and promoted in the name of Christian liberty! All true believers, like these Ephesians and like Christ himself, despise those who promote ungodliness in the name of grace.

    This seems somewhat unlikely for two reasons.

    a. Nicholas, one of the original deacons is mentioned as the founder only by Irenaeus, however his report is refuted by Clement of Alexandria who states that Nicholas was a godly man and taught the way he lived.

    b. The traditional explanation simply provides us with a type of Gnosticism. In spite of the fact that we know the names of some Gnostic leaders such as Valentinius and Simon Magus, their movements never assumed the names of their teachers. They were simply referred to as "Gnostics". If these men were "antinomian" (against any law for Christians allowing Christians to live in sexual immorality supported with spiritual doctrine), the followers would have been classified as Gnostics.

    The alternative explanation is that Nicolaitans refers to those teachers in the Body of Christ who began to elevate the clergy above the laity, a distinction that did not exist in the Christian Church until the end of the second century. This teaching did not simply recognize that elders (presbuteros and episcopas) along with deacons (diakanos) are valid biblical offices in the church. Although these church offices required the men in leadership to be servants of those to whom they minister, the Nicolaitans began ruling over the laity in a manner condemned by Jesus.

    http://www.acts1711.com/nic.htm
     
  3. mva1985

    mva1985 Senior Veteran

    +189
    SDA
    Single
    US-Republican
  4. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Nicolaitanes

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    (Redirected from Nicolaitans)
    Jump to: navigation, search
    Part of a series on
    Gnosticism[​IMG]History of Gnosticism
    Early Gnosticism
    Syrian-Egyptic Gnosticism
    Gnosticism in modern times
    Proto-Gnostics
    Philo
    Valentinius
    Cerinthus
    Basilides
    Gnostic texts
    Gnostic Gospels
    Nag Hammadi library
    Codex Tchacos
    Bruce Codex
    Gnosticism and the New Testament

    Related articles
    Gnosis
    Pythagoreanism
    Neoplatonism and Gnosticism
    Manichaeism
    Esoteric Christianity
    Theosophy

    This box: view • talk • edit
    The Nicolaitanes or Nicolaitans were a group of people mentioned twice in the book of Revelation in the New Testament. According to this reference, they were known in the cities of Ephesus and Pergamos around A.D. 99. The church at Ephesus (Rev. 2:6) is commended for "hating the deeds of the Nicolaitanes," and the church of Pergamos is blamed for "having them who hold their doctrines" (15). There is no other first-hand evidence to give us certainty about the nature of this sect.
    Several of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Epiphanius, and Theodoret mentioned this group. Irenaeus[1] discusses them but adds nothing to the Apocalypse except that "they lead lives of unrestrained indulgence." Tertullian refers to them, but apparently knows only what is found in St. John[2]. Hippolytus of Rome based his narrative on Irenaeus, though he states that the deacon Nicholas was the author of the heresy and the sect (Philosph., VII, xxvi). Clement of Alexandria[3] exonerates Nicholas, and attributes the doctrine of promiscuity, which the sect claimed to have derived from him, to a malicious distortion of words harmless in themselves. With the exception of the statement in Eusebius (H. E., III, xxix) that the sect was short-lived, none of the references in Epiphanius, Theodoret etc. deserve mention, as they are taken from Irenaeus.
    The common statement, that the Nicolaitanes held the antinomian heresy of Corinth, seems not to have been proved.[citation needed] Another opinion, favoured by a number of authors, is that, because of the allegorical character of the Apocalypse, the reference to the Nicolaitans is merely a symbolic manner of reference.[citation needed]
    Scofield, in his Notes on the Bible, following dispensationalist thought, suggests that the Seven Letters in Revelation foretell the various eras of Christian history, and that "Nicolaitans" "refers to the earliest form of the notion of a priestly order, or "clergy," which later divided an equal brotherhood into "priests" and "laity.""
    Barnes notes: "Vitringa supposes that the word is derived from νικος, victory, and λαος, people, and that thus it corresponds with the name Balaam, as meaning either lord of the people, or he destroyed the people; and that, as the same effect was produced by their doctrines as by those of Balaam, that the people were led to commit fornication and to join in idolatrous worship, they might be called Balaamites or Nicolaitanes--that is, corrupters of the people. But to this it may be replied,
    (a) that it is far-fetched, and is adopted only to remove a difficulty;
    (b) that there is every reason to suppose that the word here used refers to a class of people who bore that name, and who were well known in the two churches specified;
    (c) that, in Rev 2:15 , they are expressly distinguished from those who held the doctrine of Balaam, Rev 2:14 --"So hast thou also (και) those that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.""

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaitans
     
  5. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    This article is long, so I have to research it further. However, I can see problems all over the place even in just this one paragraph:​

    Still With Us
    Of all people, we who have left the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) in the past decade should be most aware of the antinomian spirit working in the church of God. The doctrinal changes that began to be instituted mere months after the death of Herbert W. Armstrong had as their goal the removal of God's law, particularly the Sabbath, from the church's beliefs. WCG's subsequent heavy emphasis on "grace" and "love," along with its renunciation of "legalism" exposed its antinomian position. Because of these changes, it has joined evangelical Protestant "Christianity" to the point that it now worships on Sunday, encourages celebration of Christmas and Easter, and permits the use of crucifixes and images of "Jesus" by its ministry and membership and in its publications.
    The "Christian" churches of this world are predominantly antinomian to some extent. Both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism belong to what can be termed Hellenistic Christianity, that is, a form of Christianity heavily influenced by Greek philosophies, particularly Gnosticism. Catholicism is the more moderate of the two, having retained obedience to the Church and its traditions as well as requiring certain works for salvation. However, its belief of the afterlife, with its levels of heaven, limbo, purgatory and beatific vision—not to mention its belief in an immortal soul—brand it as Gnostic.
    Protestantism is more antinomian, having rejected Catholicism's works during the Reformation. Martin Luther's doctrine of salvation by grace "through faith alone" removes God's law from the equation altogether. Pure Protestant theology is so antinomian that it claims that lawkeeping in any form—which it terms "legalism"—is detrimental to the soul's growth in spirituality. This form of Christianity also champions the doctrine of eternal security, the idea that, once one accepts Jesus, he can never lose his salvation, no matter what sins he commits ("once saved, always saved"). This doctrine knocks out law and judgment for sin in one blow.
     
  6. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Nicolaitans

    The word hate sane hate, hatred, hated, etc. means just that to hate like an enemy or to be opposed to. It's the opposite of like, or liking something. If you will notice this hatred that God has is not directed at anyone, which keeps in accord with John 3:16, but at the works and deeds of individuals.
    Look at number twelve in the list. This is what we'll be focusing on in the rest of this message. In the New Testament the word hate is used about 16 times. In Revelation 2:6 and 2:15 we're told of this thing Jesus hates. The word hate miseo means to pursue with hatred, detest, or despise. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. Do you know what this means? What is the deeds of the Nicolaitans? (Pronounced nic-oh-LAY-ih-tayns) do you know? Do you think you should know? Do you think that if it's something Jesus hates, and does not want us to do we should know what it is? The answers to those questions should be yes!

    The teaching of the deeds of the Nicolaitans is something that is not taught in most churches. When was the last time it was taught to you? If you don't know what it is how do you know if you are not practicing it?
    But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. (Revelation 2:6)


    So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. (Revelation 2:15)
    In Revelation 2:6 Jesus commends the Church of the Ephesians for their hatred of the deeds of the Nicolaitans. In Revelation 2:15 He condemns the Church of Pergamos (pronounced PUR-guh-mahs) for their acceptance of it. I would like you to notice, from both verses 6 and 15, two things. First, what deeds and doctrine are. Second, what and who were the Nicolaitans, and what was it they taught?

    The word deeds ergon--to work or perform acts. For example this word is used, in a good sense, in the book of Ephesians.
    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10).

    Therefore we understand that the deeds of the Nicolaitans are something that was visible; it was an act that was practiced. Next we have doctrine. Most all of us should know what this is. It's teaching, that which is taught, the act of teaching, or instruction. We understand here that the Church at Pergamos allowed the Nicolaitans to teach and instruct what they held to! Please understand no matter how good anything sounds or how learned one might appear to be it is not grounds for Truth. We must always check it out in God's Word.
    Next, what and who are the Nicolaitans? And what were they teaching? After consulting numerous sources it's commonly held that the Nicolaitans were a sect or party which arose in the Apostolic period of the Church. There is very little information on exactly who these individuals were. Exactly who they were, at this point, is not relevant. What is relevant is "what they taught" again after consulting numerous sources it's agreed that the voice of antiquity accuses them of holding to the "lawfulness" of idolatry, sexual promiscuity, and Gnosticism.
    For those that may not be familiar with Gnosticism (which comes from the Greek word Gnosis meaning knowledge) without boring us with a lot of complicated information; in its simplest definition "the central doctrine that emancipation (making free, salvation) comes through knowledge, and that once attained, one was freed from the clutch of matter, i.e. the body was evil and it did not matter what one did with it." Also it was common by most Gnostics to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ.

    The sects, like the Nicolaitans, crept into the Church and influenced her to mix Paganism with Christianity. Roman Catholicism is guilty of this. Many may be saying, "ok, what does all this have to do with me my Church does not teach or condone any of those things"? Really? You better check to make sure. However, some may be thinking "hum? I heard so and so say something similar to what this is saying." This message is a warning to be very careful of what you receive as teaching.
    "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4)


    The idea that we can do whatever we want, and not have to worry about incurring a rebuke from Jesus, is in line with the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. Let me give you the next verse from the passage about the Nicolaitans its in Revelation 2:16.
    "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."


    There are Churches that believe they are Christian but fall down, worship, pray to, and kiss idols.
    "Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry." (1 Corinthians 10:14)


    "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies." (Galatians 5:19,20)

    "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry." (Colossians 3:5)

    "Little children, keep yourselves from idols, Amen." (1 John 5:21)

    There are Churches today that believe they can be Christians and have unbridled sex. One pastor is quoted as saying "Don't worry to much about sin" and another that had "a log book of his sexual liaisons of the women in his church" that pastor, at last word, was dying of cancer.
    "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood." (Acts 15:20)


    "It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife." (1 Corinthians 5:1)

    "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." (1 Corinthians 6:18)

    "Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand." (1 Corinthians 10:8)

    "For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication." (1 Thessalonians 4:3)

    There are many Churches today that say they're Christian but deny Jesus Christ! There are many Churches that have liberal pastors teaching that Jesus was not God!
    "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 10:33)


    "If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us." ( 2 Timothy 2:12)

    "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16)

    "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:20)

    "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1 John 4:3)

    "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (2 Peter 2:1)

    In closing, there may be some of you that can still say, "none of this pertains to me." To that I say Praise God! but.
    "Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." (Proverbs 16:18)


    "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." (1 Corinthians 10:12)

    If some of you have felt the Word speaking to you about an area in your life then; beloved, obey the Scriptures and ask Christ to remove the Sin.
    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

    Please remember if the doctrine of the Nicolaitans does not pertain directly to you then truly thank God for His Grace! And be warned that it's out there and you should be on guard.
    Amen!

    http://www.kingshouse.org/nicolaitans.htm
     
  7. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Interesting explantion.

    Nicolaitans: One of the heretical sects that plagued the churches at Ephesus and at Pergamum, and perhaps elsewhere. Irenaeus identifies the Nicolaitans as a Gnostic sect: “John, the disciple of the Lord, preaches this faith (the deity of Christ), and seeks, by the proclamation of the Gospel, to remove that error which by Cerinthus had been disseminated among men, and a long time previously by those termed Nicolaitans, who are an offset of that “knowledge” falsely so called, that he might confound them, and persuade them that there is but one God, who made all things by His Word” (see Irenaeus Against Heresies iii 11. 1; ANF vol. 1, p. 426) There is also historical evidence of a Gnostic sect called Nitolaitans a century or so later.

    The doctrine of the Nicolaitans appears to have been a form of antinomianism. (Antinomianism: A belief that is based upon a recognition of the mercy of God as the ground of salvation, but it makes the fatal mistake that man can freely partake in sin because the Law of God is no longer binding. It held the truth on the gratuitous reckoning of righteousness; but supposed that a mere intellectual “belief” in this truth had a saving power. The Apostle James refuted this error in James 2:19 with the admonition, "The devils also believe, and tremble"; reminding us that true faith is an active principle which works by love and it goes beyond a profession of belief. "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:20) The Bible teaches us that salvation is a free gift, based upon God's grace alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) However, the very next verse tells us that "we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10) True faith produce action, as well as a desire for holiness and obedience. (1 John 3:18, Titus 2:11-15, 1 Peter 1:15-16, Revelation 14:12)

    Nicolaitans of the 2nd century seem to have continued and extended the views of the 1st century adherents, holding to the freedom of the flesh and sin, and teaching that the deeds of the flesh had no effect upon the health of the soul and consequently no relation to salvation. On the other hand, the Bible teaches that Christians are supposed to "die" to sin and the deeds of our "flesh": "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1-2) "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." (Romans 6:11-13)
    Today, the doctrine is now largely taught that the gospel of Christ has made God's law of no effect: that by “believing” we are released from the necessity of being doers of the Word. But this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which Christ so unsparingly condemned in the book of Revelation. "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." (James 1:22)
     
  8. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

    +46
    SDA
    I'm not trying to be controversial here Night but this is just one line of scripture. Are you sure you are not taking this out of context? :clap: After all one line of scripture can never be enough to stand on it's own can it?;)

    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
  9. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    True, true. :D
     
  10. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    No one has any insight on this? :confused:
     
  11. Sophia7

    Sophia7 Tall73's Wife Supporter

    +375
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I haven't read much on this, so I don't know what to think. It looks as if it would be hard to prove definitively what the practices and teachings of the Nicolaitans were. One thing that jumped out at me was this quote because it includes a lot of the same misconceptions and assumptions that we see in many of the threads around here:

     
  12. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Yes Sophia, that one was a brutal quote. That is why I said I could see problems all throughout it.

    I like this explanation:

    a. Nicholas, one of the original deacons is mentioned as the founder only by Irenaeus, however his report is refuted by Clement of Alexandria who states that Nicholas was a godly man and taught the way he lived.

    b. The traditional explanation simply provides us with a type of Gnosticism. In spite of the fact that we know the names of some Gnostic leaders such as Valentinius and Simon Magus, their movements never assumed the names of their teachers. They were simply referred to as "Gnostics". If these men were "antinomian" (against any law for Christians allowing Christians to live in sexual immorality supported with spiritual doctrine), the followers would have been classified as Gnostics.

    The alternative explanation is that Nicolaitans refers to those teachers in the Body of Christ who began to elevate the clergy above the laity, a distinction that did not exist in the Christian Church until the end of the second century. This teaching did not simply recognize that elders (presbuteros and episcopas) along with deacons (diakanos) are valid biblical offices in the church. Although these church offices required the men in leadership to be servants of those to whom they minister, the Nicolaitans began ruling over the laity in a manner condemned by Jesus.

    One thing is for sure, if the Nicolaitans were blatantly engaged in sexual immorality, debauchery, drunkeness, perversions and blatant blasphemy and idol worship thinking they were covered by grace, it does not seem at all reasonable at make a parallel with those who feel they are no longer obligated to, or under the condemnation of, the 10 commandments.

    I don't see them as remotely the same thing! :doh:

    Many God-fearing Christians who feel the commandments are no longer binding still live holy lives and have not given themselves over to lawless behavior and sin, even though some SDA's want to believe that is the case. It is patently unfair to label them anti-nomian when they live just as much by Christian principals as those who boast of 'keeping' the law.

    You can have the law written in your heart and live under the principals of Christ's commands to love one another. I don't see anything lawless about that.
     
  13. Sophia7

    Sophia7 Tall73's Wife Supporter

    +375
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Exactly.
     
  14. StormyOne

    StormyOne Senior Veteran

    +46
    Christian
    Married
    one point is being missed though.... the bible says that even though they hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans, they had LOST their first LOVE..... which tells me that you can even dislike the things God dislikes, but if you don't have his love, you are in serious trouble....
     
  15. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

    +856
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus believed that the commandments of God were binding. In fact, He encouraged others to keep them. Matt. 19:17

    Yet, they were also written on His heart. Ps. 40:7-8

    So if the commandments of God are really written on our hearts, wouldn't we also be encouraging others to keep God's commands?

    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 5:18-20)

    By the way, in Jesus words above you will find the answer to your question about the Nicolaitans.
     
  16. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

    +46
    SDA
    At least the antinomian's keep the whole law together and reject all of it. Some of us just want to get rid of the 4th commandment.

    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
  17. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

    +856
    Christian
    Married
    And this is what it all comes down to isn't it?

    You see, they have to do this because if they don't they must face the inconsistency of their own illogical end. For, if you are to do away with one of the ten you must do away with all of them as they are all a part of the same law. After all, weren't they all written on the same stone tablets?

    Of course, it appears that we have one in here who is trying to say that the 4th command isn't the same as the other commands, but we know the end of that argument too!

    It is better therefore, that they just simply refuse to acknowledge that the ten are still binding. That's the only way they can escape their moral responsibility to the 4th command, and justify leaving a Sabbath keeping church for a Sunday keeping church. Of course, this still doesn't make any sense because if they are written in the heart then that presupposes that they are still binding! And since the 4th command is including with them, that too must still be binding as it is moral just like the other 9.

    Well, they can ignore the facts all they want, but one day they will stand in judgment of the words of Christ who said:

    Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, Till the heaven and the earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any way pass from the Law until all is fulfilled. Therefore whoever shall relax one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of Heaven. But whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. (Mat 5:17-19)
     
  18. NightEternal

    NightEternal Evangelical SDA

    +119
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    So you guys place Tall and Sophia on the same level as the Nicolatians. :doh:

    Gotcha. Just wanted to actually get someone to admit to what was clearly being implied.

    And if the claims of the commandments are as morally binding to us as they were to the Jews, why do we not still impose the death penalty for those who 'break' the commandments? If you are still a slave to the written law in stone, which brings the death penalty, then you are obliged to observe every point without fail or you must be killed. You are every bit as accountable as Israel of old if you choose to place yourself under the same covenant that God made with the Jews. But Paul says we have been freed from the law which brings death. Christ said a NEW command I give you.

    And how is the Sabbath a 'morally' binding requirement? Can free worship from a heart of love be forced or coerced by a moral demand? A commandment by its very nature commands someone to do something or else.
     
  19. Eila

    Eila Senior Veteran

    +160
    Christian
    Married
    It seems as though some want to equate "lawlessness" with those who do not adhere to the old covenant law. However believers are under the law of Christ. I realize some may equate the two, but Christians are not without law - we just may disagree on what the law for Christians is.

    i.e. 1 Cor 9 "19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
    21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
    22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some."
     
  20. Sophia7

    Sophia7 Tall73's Wife Supporter

    +375
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    :amen:
     
Loading...