The Nicene Creed - line by line

[Radagast]

I picture Him riding a donkey into Jerusalem, and crucified with a crown of thorns and a sign reading "King of the Jews", while folks mocked and challenged Him with saving Himself, and yes I see it is very much related to His role as King.

What the Creed is talking about is Christ's role as King of the Universe, after his Ascension, and especially after his Second Coming. This is separate from Christ's role as Suffering Servant and Redeemer, which is covered earlier in the Creed ("And was crucified for us").

Just to give the context:

And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures.
And ascended into Heaven,
and sits at the right hand of the Father.
And He shall come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead;
whose Kingdom shall have no end.

It seems that you can only think of Christ as a human being, and that you struggle to see Christ as God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Just to give the context:

And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures.
And ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father.

And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead;
whose Kingdom shall have no end.

I do think the context of this line is clear. Instead of reading it as a set of separate lines, it is written in a form that lends itself to a narrative, and ought not be rearranged in getting the understanding.

Please let's not debate this here, as staff has already intervened once before. There is a thread for the other topic, I suppose (that seems to be the topic) so I ask that we keep this one on the Creed.

Thank you all.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I suppose it's time to move forward. (with some trepidation at this point)

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead.

His kingdom shall have no end.

I think I will limit my comments on this one.

More than anything I am thankful - His kingdom shall have no end. When we reach that point, there will be no more testing and re-cycling of what we have suffered in this world as part of the process of the story of redemption. All things will be new, all things will be under submission to Christ, which is the only way there will ever be perfect order.

No better kingdom could exist, and I am thankful that when we reach that point, the Kingdom will never end.

And I am equally thankful that our God is all-knowing in that He knows the end from the beginning, and at the same time is powerful enough to bring all things to pass that He wills to be so.

This is perfection, since we have a good and loving God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Perhaps we should move on ...

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,

 

[Exodus20]

I think I will limit my comments on this one.

More than anything I am thankful - His kingdom shall have no end. When we reach that point, there will be no more testing and re-cycling of what we have suffered in this world as part of the process of the story of redemption. All things will be new, all things will be under submission to Christ, which is the only way there will ever be perfect order.

No better kingdom could exist, and I am thankful that when we reach that point, the Kingdom will never end.

And I am equally thankful that our God is all-knowing in that He knows the end from the beginning, and at the same time is powerful enough to bring all things to pass that He wills to be so.

This is perfection, since we have a good and loving God.

Good comment ---

Rev. 21: 5,6,7

 

[LadyOfMystery]

Mod Hat ON

Hi Everyone
This thread will be permanently closed due to the following rule:

Please do not post in these forums unless you are truly a Nicene Creed, Trinitarian Christian (please see our Statement of Faith to know exactly what that is). If you wish to discuss unorthodox doctrines, you may do so in the Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion forum.

Mod Hat OFF

 

[Tallguy88]

M0D HAT ON

After further review by CF Supervisors and Administrators, it has been decided to reopen this thread after a cleanup of off topic posts.

You will keep the following points in mind when responding:

1. You may not post against any point in the Nicene Creed. It is the Statement of Faith for Christian Forums and how we judge whether or not a poster is an orthodox Christian. Since the General Theology forum is for orthodox Christians only, posts which dispute or disparage the Nicene Creed or the Holy Trinity are not allowed. You may only post such things in Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion.

2. You will respect the OP's requests to limit the scope of discussion. If you would like to discuss some other point that the OP does not want discussed here, start your own thread.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you so much. I am pleased to have the thread reopened. Everyone PLEASE respect the Mod's instructions! Thank you!

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,

 

[~Anastasia~]

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,

It's hard to know where to begin, and what to say and what to leave out with this one. I think much COULD be said. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the framers of the Creed had exactly in mind for and against when this part was written.

What we can see is that the Holy Spirit is named specifically. He is called the Lord, and being listed with the Father and the Son, He is made known as the third Person of the Trinity.

I love the "Creator of Life". I am reminded not only of the Spirit of God hovering over the waters - it seems from the Bible that all three Persons of the Trinity had a part in Creation. I get the sense that the Holy Spirit had perhaps a role that tended more to the dynamic.

But I also can't help but think about the Holy Spirit as the one who regenerates us - and creates in us NEW life when we are brought into the faith.

And also it is by His Spirit that we live out our life of faith - it is no longer I that live, but Christ that lives within me - through the Holy Spirit. And in that way, our life is continually being created through Him.

I'm not sure exactly what point (if one of these, all of them, or some other) was meant when the Nicene Creed was written, but I always tend to think of these ways in which the Holy Spirit gives us life, when I read the Creed.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I was noticing the phrasing "Creator of Life" and realized I'd not heard that translation before. I'm more accustomed to "Giver of life".

So I decided to look up the Greek text of the Creed, and here the Spirit is called ζῳοποιόν (zoopoion). I'm not great at Greek and picking up on word tenses, but I could discern the compound of both zoe (life) and poeisis (craft). He is life-maker.

But then I noticed how the framers of the Creed have spoken of all Three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in terms of their singular action in creation.

The Father is called Pantokrator, All-ruler, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς (poieten ouranou kai ges), the maker, the Craftsman of the heavens and earth--of everything, seen and unseen (ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτω&#957.

Of the Son the Creed says of the only-begotten, the only and eternally-generated,
δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο (di ou ta panta egeneto)--by which all things came to be; by which all things were generated, arose, began.

And then here the Spirit is called zoopoion, the life-maker. The Latin vivificantem--"that which makes alive"--is equally as awesome.

Unlike our breath which is fleeting, and which expires; we have here the very Breath of God, that which is vivifying, quickening, eternal, and everlasting. Of course we aren't there yet, but as a foretaste for the Creed goes on to say, that One which is proceeding, billowing forth out from. This is not a transient breath, nor a transient life; this is the Eternal One, the very Breath from the Father, wellspring of all life, who causes things to be and by which we ourselves are made alive even to God, even in spite of our sins. By which we have the promises of the Gospel laying hold of us in Christ. The One who brings life, makes life, gives life.

The Holy Spirit, Lord and Giver of Life.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[~Anastasia~]

I was noticing the phrasing "Creator of Life" and realized I'd not heard that translation before. I'm more accustomed to "Giver of life".

So I decided to look up the Greek text of the Creed, and here the Spirit is called ζῳοποιόν (zoopoion). I'm not great at Greek and picking up on word tenses, but I could discern the compound of both zoe (life) and poeisis (craft). He is life-maker.

But then I noticed how the framers of the Creed have spoken of all Three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in terms of their singular action in creation.

The Father is called Pantokrator, All-ruler, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς (poieten ouranou kai ges), the maker, the Craftsman of the heavens and earth--of everything, seen and unseen (ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτω&#957.

Of the Son the Creed says of the only-begotten, the only and eternally-generated,
δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο (di ou ta panta egeneto)--by which all things came to be; by which all things were generated, arose, began.

And then here the Spirit is called zoopoion, the life-maker. The Latin vivificantem--"that which makes alive"--is equally as awesome.

Unlike our breath which is fleeting, and which expires; we have here the very Breath of God, that which is vivifying, quickening, eternal, and everlasting. Of course we aren't there yet, but as a foretaste for the Creed goes on to say, that One which is proceeding, billowing forth out from. This is not a transient breath, nor a transient life; this is the Eternal One, the very Breath from the Father, wellspring of all life, who causes things to be and by which we ourselves are made alive even to God, even in spite of our sins. By which we have the promises of the Gospel laying hold of us in Christ. The One who brings life, makes life, gives life.

The Holy Spirit, Lord and Giver of Life.

-CryptoLutheran

Wow, thank you so much, CL. That's really wonderful, and I wouldn't have caught that. I appreciate your post very much.

 

[Exodus20]

Thanks to the Admin/Mods. who reopened this Thread ! This is probably one of the best ( and worthwhile ) threads on this website. I wish I had seen it when it first started. The Nicene Creed has the Basics of the Christian religion in a compact package.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thanks to the Admin/Mods. who reopened this Thread ! This is probably one of the best ( and worthwhile ) threads on this website. I wish I had seen it when it first started. The Nicene Creed has the Basics of the Christian religion in a compact package.

I'm very thankful it was re-opened as well. And thanks for your kind word, Exodus. BTW, if there is anything in the part we've already covered that you'd like to comment on, please feel free to do so. The only limiting I have put on it is that I ask that people don't get ahead of where we are. But I wouldn't want to limit people from replying to anything otherwise.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Shall we go on? If anyone hasn't had a chance to reply that wanted to, it's not too late. I'll post the next part though.

All I ask is, since it includes the filioque, let's not argue about that in this thread. As far as theology, it seems fair that anyone is free to post whatever their Church agrees with, but I ask there to be no debate in this thread - until after we finish the Creed. Thanks!!!

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,

Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]

 

[seeingeyes]

Shall we go on? If anyone hasn't had a chance to reply that wanted to, it's not too late. I'll post the next part though.

All I ask is, since it includes the filioque, let's not argue about that in this thread. As far as theology, it seems fair that anyone is free to post whatever their Church agrees with, but I ask there to be no debate in this thread - until after we finish the Creed. Thanks!!!

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,

Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]

Honestly, I have no idea what this means. Pretty sure the authors didn't either. Just sounded good, and it's fun to fight over, too.

 

[Tallguy88]

When I say the Creed outside of Church, I leave off the filioque. The theology works better without it. I don't think it's heresy or anything though (or else I'm in the wrong Church!)

Other than that, we see here the Father sending His Spirit to His people.

 

[Tallguy88]

You said we could go back, so:

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

This really sums up the question of Who Jesus is. It's parallel with the first chapter of the Gospel of John. It clearly states that Jesus is the same thing as God the Father (of one essence, consubstantial, homoousious). This pretty much kills any argument that Jesus was not always the Son of God, or that Jesus is lesser than God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Honestly, I have no idea what this means. Pretty sure the authors didn't either. Just sounded good, and it's fun to fight over, too.

Play nice, Seeing, LOL.

I have to admit, I had a great misunderstanding about it. For a while I assumed it referred to "My Father will send another Comfortor" ... and that was the "procession of the Holy Spirit".

I understand now it is in an eternal sense (otherwise the Holy Spirit) would have a beginning point in time, and essentially be a "creature") ... but ... I can't explain it clearly. I'd have to understand it much better in order to be able to do that.

My dim understanding though has opened a kind of window for me. For the first time I can wrap my mind around the idea of "Trinity" without honestly (if secretly) holding "three gods" in my mind.

I'm hoping for someone better able to post on this that I to come along.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You said we could go back, so:



This really sums up the question of Who Jesus is. It's parallel with the first chapter of the Gospel of John. It clearly states that Jesus is the same thing as God the Father (of one essence, consubstantial, homoousious). This pretty much kills any argument that Jesus was not always the Son of God, or that Jesus is lesser than God.

Sure, going back is fine. You actually had the advantage of putting all that into one post when I think I had broken it up. (It was difficult to decide where to put the breaks for the sake of posting about it.)

But I very much love the section that you quoted, the way it all reads as a block, for just the reasons you discuss here. It's such a wonderful way to expand on Who Jesus is.

 

[Tallguy88]

I've also always seen it as "Begotten, not created" as one thought emphasizing that Jesus always has been, and never was not in existence.