• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

The New Testament IS NOT "the scriptures" Jesus Mentioned

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by goodnewsinc, Jun 24, 2002.

  1. goodnewsinc

    goodnewsinc Senior Member Supporter

    +92
    Christian
    The New Testament IS NOT "the scriptures" Jesus Mentioned

    Jesus, Peter and Paul advised their followers to "search" and to "study" the scriptures. This was strictly the Old Testament volume record. The writings that men call the New Testament today were not even written. They ARE NOT "the scriptures"! Some of you, who are unfamiliar with the GOOD NEWS, may be STUNNED at this revelation. The canonically accepted writings which we call the New Testament are completely ….. NON-"SCRIPTURAL"! The New Testament is Rome and Catholic approved according to what the Dragon (Revelation 13:4-7) allowed, but the writings are not "the Holy Scriptures"! I will give you a few minutes to pick yourself up from the floor and clear your head……… When Jesus, Peter and Paul taught us to study "the scriptures" they referred to the full Old Testament record. That record included Enoch's writings, Baruch, Odes and Psalms and the Wisdom of Solomon, Ezra's other books, the Testament of the Patriarchs, and other works. However the Dragon used his flame throwers in a Dark-Age Catholic Counsel to trim and diminish "the scriptures". When the Dragon blew his breath of death on the record, many of the books Jesus, Paul, and Peter advised us to "search" and "study" were smeared as

    (1) non-canonical <not Dragon approved>,
    (2) apocryphal <cryptic writings>, and
    (3) pseudepigrapha <false writings>.

    This is what happened when Babylon took over the Catholic Church. The TRUE SCRIPTURAL RECORD Jesus, Paul and Peter advised us to study was greatly HARMED. In the place of those works, Babylon and the Dragon allowed the "in part" letters of the disciples to their friends and church groups along with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They called it the New Testament and they "canonized them" meaning they are Dragon approved. Because of Rome these non-scriptural writings took on giant proportions and later generations had a New Testament of Dragon approved documents masquerading as "Holy Scriptures" when they are not so! Many of you have been snake-bitten and "Roman - eyzed". (You see ONLY what Rome wants you to see). You have elevated what is really "non-scriptures" to heights God did not give them. Every Words that proceeded out of the mouth of God was initiated and dictated by God to Old Testament writers. All these man were no more than "secretaries" taking dictation. New Testament writings were initiated by the human writers and they were expressions of their hearts to encourage and to teach their constituents. Their words came from their own mouths and were recorded by their aids who could write in Hebrew and Greek. There is a difference.

    (1) True words, the REAL SCRIPTURES were dictations initiated by God and spoken from His own mouth to human "secretaries" otherwise known as Moses and the prophets.
    (2) Canonized non-scriptures or the New Testament are "in-part" words of encouragement and didactics initiated and dictated by the mouths of the disciples.
    (3) Now Jesus' direct words spoken in the first person in red letter editions of the Bible are the exception in the New Testament. Jesus' Words have ALL AUTHORITY! The four gospels are the personal witness of the Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John from their mouths, not God's mouth!

    Let us take a look at the foundation upon which YOU have built YOUR Christian understanding.

    1. If you have built upon the direct Words of Jesus you have no problem!

    Matthew 7:24. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

    2. If you have built upon "the scriptures" as they existed when Jesus, Peter and Paul lived, you have built upon the real "TRUTH". However it is SEALED. That "TRUTH" includes the "Other Bible Books" in the GOOD NEWS Reference Library (http://goodnewsinc.net/refs.html) and they were part of the volume legacy in the days of Jesus, Peter, and Paul just before Babylon and the Dragon entered via the Catholic Church. Enoch, Baruch, Ezra, Odes, Psalms, and Wisdom of Solomon are a few of the authentic early church record books trimmed from the OT collection of sacred writings and became "non-canonized"!

    Isaiah 29:9. Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. 10. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. 11. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: 12. And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. 13. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: 14. Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

    Revelation 5:1. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    3. If you build your doctrine upon the Bible as it exists today, you have a partial and incomplete foundation for two major reasons.

    A. The Old Testament record of "true scripture" is trimmed and the volume record is diminished. You cannot build a house if half of the foundation is missing.

    B. The New Testament is not "the scriptures". It is a substitute approved by Babylon and the Dragon for an enslaved and captive Catholic Church for obvious reasons. They are the writings of men who wrote from memory of Jesus words, and the words were dictations from their own mouths to aids who could write. Their memories failed in some cases and variations in the gospel accounts have been noticed! Some of what they wrote is true, and some of it is their own human reasoning. At best these writers "knew in part and understood in part" with some parts wrong. While the New Testament is Dragon approved (canonized), it cannot be a true foundation. But it does contain Jesus' Words in the four Gospels and Jesus is a "sure foundation". The disciples and Paul are not the sure foundation.

    Matthew 17:1. And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2. And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

    1 Corinthians 3:4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6. I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 11. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    So Go ahead and take the advice of Jesus, Peter, and Paul, this time with UNDERSTANDING! "Search scriptures", "study the scriptures", and consider "the prophecy of scriptures from old time". It is the complete volume-record of books the early church held as "sacred writings", all Old Testament books plus those books the Dragon Church clipped away and mislabeled them as "apocrypha and pseudepigrapha". The New Testament does not have the authority recognized by Jesus, Peter and Paul. They derived their "authority" from Babylon, the Dragon, and the Catholic Church, which "canonized" (approved) them!

    You and I cannot do too much about these things for the world. This trap was set centuries ago before any of us were born. We were born in a snake-pit and the net of deception was fixed. All our human teachers have been blind men groping the walls and feeling their way around. Isaiah sums up the Christian-world dilemma nicely. Concerning our battle with Pharaoh and demonic Egyptians on our bodies he wrote:

    Isaiah 59:8. The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace. 9. Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. 10. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men. 11. We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. 12. For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them; 13. In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood. 14. And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. 15. Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

    So go ahead and take Jesus' advice, "Search the scriptures"! Do what Paul said and "study the scriptures to show yourself approved" unto your Father. Finally consider the "prophesy of the scriptures from old time" that Peter talked about. Since you do not have all of "the scriptures" they referred to, you can find many books you do not have at http://www.goodnewsinc.net/refs.html in the section called "Other Bible Books".

    Proverbs 4:5. Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth. 6. Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee. 7. Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

    Psalm 119:101. I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word. 102. I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me. 103. How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104. Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

    The eyes of some of you have popped open! How do you feel in the sunlight? Welcome to the Refiner's fire! Malachi 3:1-5. All you can do is LIVE with UNDERSTANDING.

    Song of Solomon 5:7 The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me.

    Haggai 2:6 For thus saith the Lord of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; 7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the Lord of hosts.

    This is what the Refiners are doing:

    Ezekiel 10:2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight.

    Zechariah 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

    Revelation 18:8 Therefore shall her (Babylon's) plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

    Babylon and the Dragon have counseled, "Stop GOOD NEWS, Inc. at all costs! They (Heaven, 2 Esdras 13:25-38) are messing up "our church"! Devils do not want you to LOOK at what they did historically. The trimming work of Catholic "counsels" is a matter of historical fact! The Counsel of Nicea is one of them. Devils using men as vessels have "messed" with "the scriptures". Now we will "make a show of them openly triumphing over them in it"! Colossians 2:15.

    GOOD NEWS, Inc. :clap: :wave: :priest: :holy: :pink:
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +608
    Christian
    Married
    What say ye Jenlu!:eek:

    goodnewsinc post is exactly what I've been trying to say to you....he is using scripture to PROVE his doctrine! And wow, he makes some good points! So maybe you should adopt his beliefs!

    This is what happens when we stray from the BASICS of church INTERPRETATION of scriptures.
     
  3. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +2
    It's pretty obvious the scripture's Jesus and Paul referred to are O.T. scripture's...I believe that...you give credence to Jesus' words in the N.T., but not those that wrote them...they either wrote Jesus' words correctly and we can trust what they wrote as inspired by the Holy Spirit (ie mouth of Jehovah God) or you can't trust what they wrote including the words the "recalled" Jesus speaking...this of course is my opinion...
     
  4. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    Peter did refer to Paul's letters as scripture.
     
  5. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    Which is why many Biblical scholars think that 2 Peter was not actually written by Peter, but by someone writing in his name sometime later in the early second century. (The authorship of 2 Peter was doubted even in antiquity; it was one of the last books to be accepted as canonical NT scripture)

    -Chris
     
  6. darkwoof

    darkwoof Member

    89
    +4
    Christian
    Single
    Okay, I'm going to say while while I know for certain when Christ referenced the Scriptures, he meant the Old Testament (or Old Covenant). He definitely was not talking about the New Testament simply because that New Covenant was written for, of and fulfilled by Him.

    That said, I would say it is safe for US to take the New Testament as scriptures. The OT paved the way for Christ, and having fulfilled them, He established the NT. After all, the miracle of the bible is that what was prophesized in the OT is fulfilled in the days of Christ. How do we know? It's written in the NT.

    The Bible is the word of God. Trust It.
     
  7. chagal was here

    chagal was here jack's raging bile

    51
    +0
    OT as scripture - yes, agreed but...

    not the apocrypha (deutero-canonical) books. Those were never fully accepted by Jewish authorities as scripture. They weren't even part of the Hebrew text (Masoretic Text) They were added to the Greek Translation (The Septuagint LXX). The Jewish canon (OT)wasn't fully solidified until about 100 AD and the apocryphal or deutero-canonical books were not included.

    by 100 A.D. the writings now accepted as the New Testament canon had been written. These would have been rejected by Jewish authorities because they dealt with Jesus as the Christ.

    The Holy Spirit wasn't finished inspiring people to write with just the OT or with the gosples (which, by the way, were not the first of the NT books to be written...)

    To throw out the NT is foolish.
     
  8. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

    +231
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Others
    GNinc will just say that Peter was wrong, or that someone later added that phrase, and this is because the NT books (like 2Peter) are not scripture (to GNinc, anyway).

    Your logic here is questionable, GN. If the Catholic Church distorted the scriptures so much then why should Jesus' red letter words be the "exception". Didn't we get those words translated and transcribed to us through the centuries by that same Babylonian Church? The Disciples sometimes recorded some of Jesus' coversations in various ways, so does that mean that even Jesus' words are now suspect? Well, according to your line of reasoning, they are suspect. You think God is able to preserve His Son's words in red ink, but yet He was somehow unable to do the same with the rest?

    While in the 1st Century, before the Church became Roman or "Universal, the Body of Christ accepted the gospels and epistles of the apostles as scripture. The Catholic counsels were only verifying what the Church at large had already accepted as the Word of God. The majority of the NT scriptures were Church approved long before they were canonized. The apocryphal works were considered so by the Jews first, not the Catholics. I'd like to see the evidence that any of the works you mentioned were listed as part of the "Law and Prophets" of the OT "canon"(loosely titled).

    You seem to be old Marcion's alter ego; instead of rejecting the OT and accepting only parts of the NT as scripture like he did, you do the opposite, by rejecting the NT scripture and only accepting the OT.

    Your persistant determination to paint the canonical council as a meeting of diabolical, religious scavengers who stamped the term "scripture" on whatever suited the theological fancy is a gross misrepresentation of the actual process. Fortunately, some of us know better. Fore shame, GN, fore shame.

    And don't bother with the Martyr-complex. People are not against some of your ideas because they wish to smother the truth; they're against your ideas because some of them are, well...just plain wrong. :)

    In Christ,

    Acts6:5
     
  9. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    +3,801
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    goodnewsinc, you're new here, so I'll be brief.

    Whatever your issues are with the Catholic Church, anti-Catholic comments or postings on this forum are an infringement of the rules and will not be tolerated. Comments, for example, like these:
    Statements such as these are in violation of the rules of the forum, and continued violations will result in administrative action being taken, up to and including your banning from the site.

    Please abide by the rules of the forum; we appreciate your cooperation.

    Thank you,
    ---Wolseley, Christian Forums Staff Administrator.
     
  10. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +173
    Protestant
    Single
    Since scriptures were Words from God, and that Jesus is God, then the NT must be scriptures.
    And since the OT was God inspired, NT was God inspired, they're scriptures.
     
  11. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +2
    How also do you account for the fact that the writers of the N.T. have hit the nail on the head with all of what they have said...
     
  12. goodnewsinc

    goodnewsinc Senior Member Supporter

    +92
    Christian
    Hello, All!

    Let me first apologize to all who are offended by certain characteriztions in the document. How do you characterize Jesus' in Matthew 23? We cannot do a thing about history! It was enacted before any of us were born. I am not against the New Testament as some of you suppose. God gave those writers some truth also. But you NEED to realize that they did "know in part and understood in part" while "seeing through a glass darkly". As you can see I am not an "inerrency" proponent. The Bible is like a field. There is much clay, grass, weeds, rocks, and trees of all kinds an bushes on the surface. Beneath the soil are more iron, less copper, less silver and even less gold with some rubies, emeralds, and diamonds ect. deep beneath the surface. The scriptures you pick and treasure determine your spiritual wealth. To that end Jesus gave this parable. You will see my heart that I DO LOVE ALL and I mean no man any harm.

    Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the
    bad away.

    All Churches apply this "rule". This has resulted in the great variety of churches and denominations that we have today, and there is much "disagreement" among them doctrine-wise because of the texts they claim as "treasure". My sentiments can be seen in this shared letter:

    Hi, Gerri and ALL!

    Father's PLAN has always been to "subject us to vanity", not to prevent a mix-up, but to allow the mix up so that He ONLY is "Master" of his Word. Check it out:

    Romans 8:20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    Matthew 24:11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Revelation 13:6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    God did this so that your salvation, spiritual growth, and your degree of understanding will depend not on your works and self-will, but totally on His will according to our works as He assesses us in His own eyes.

    Now NO MAN CAN BOAST about being better than another or because he understands more than another. All that we think we have has been given to us by the blessing and gift of the Father. I am not better than a prostitute in the act or a criminal on death-row. We need to learn that we are ALL predestined for eternity and that this life is just an "educational tour" for all the children of God. He GAVE THE DRAGON POWER to subdue and control all humanity including arrogant Christians who think they are better than others because of "my faith and /or my works". We are all "concluded in unbelief that Father may show mercy upon ALL and unto ALL"!

    Romans 3:21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Romans 11:30. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31. Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34. For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? 35. Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36. For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

    Why do Christians think they are better than others either because of "their" faith and/or "their" works? No man is "better" than any man! Just because I have learned a few spiritual things will not cast me into the mold of the "elder son". I DO NOT feel that I am better than all the prodigal sons of the world actively committing "sin". Whatever we think we have done and whatever degree of faith we are pleased that we have, we gained NOTHING on our own. At all times it was God in us doing the works and "our faith" was given as a gift by God! Now you see there is no place for boasting and pride and exalting one's self over "those sinners" of the world. Since Father did all these things in you and for you, YOU CAN'T BRAG! Your Father designed every event in this life as a Supreme Teacher raising His family by precept and example, comparison and contrast by utilizing good and evil as "teaching" facets! Can you say, "Amen"?

    GOOD NEWS, Inc. :clap: :wave: :pink: :priest: :holy:
     
  13. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

    +231
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Others
    Thanks for clarifying, GN. Some of what you said came across in the worst possible way (which is easy to do using this medium). Although we may still disagree on certain things I'm glad to see that you are not as far into left field as I once thought. ;)

    In Christ,

    Acts6:5
     
Loading...