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the new jerusalem

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Ultimate, Sep 27, 2002.

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  1. Ultimate

    Ultimate New Member

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    I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some thoughs on this new place . Is it literal... is it heaven... is it on earth... is God there or somewhere else on his throne...is the size literal... or is this city the church? thanks for the imput. If you know of any site with sketches or art on this new jerusalem please let me Know or a good site devoted to this.
     
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  2. ocean

    ocean Banned (just kidding)

    +3
    Agnostic
    It is the new heaven. I don't know if the size or the description is literal or not.
     
  3. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    What's the link to the good site?
     
  4. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    I don't have any links, but yes, it is a literal place. You can read about what it's like in Rev. chaps. 21 & 22. I also believe that the throne of God will link the new heaven and new earth. But that is only opinion, not Scripture. One very cool place...
     
  5. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
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    Protestant
    New Jerusalem is the Church, the Bride of Christ, made spotless and beautiful for her husband through the suffering she endures in order to come to perfect union with the One who suffered and died for her salvation. Wherever God dwells with his people, in heaven or on earth, there is New Jerusalem.
     
  6. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    We first hear Jerusalam being called Salem meaning Shalem or peace. Melchizedek was a priest king of Salem like Solomon was a preist king. Abraham paid his tithe to Melchizedek.

    This area is actually a plateau up in the mountains. Later on in the Bible we hear about it being used as a threshing floor. David then purchases it and establishes it as the capital of his new kingdom.

    The title is then passed down through the generations to Jesus, though His parents, and He is the rightful and legal owner. During the 1000 year reign of Christ, Jerusalem will be the world captial and every nation will have to send a representive there once a year. They will also to out to the garbage dump and look upon the corpses of those who rebelled against God. (Mark 9:48) "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Isa 66:24)

    Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth and the new Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven. Some say the size is 1500 sq miles, half the size of the US.

    I have seem what the New Jerusalem will look like. It will look just like a precious stone looks on a ring. The colors are very bright as if light is in them. It will make the earth as we know it now, look very dull and drab.
     
  7. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    I agree!!

    The New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ!

    Revelation 21:2

    "Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

    The Church is the Bride of Christ!

    2 Corinthians 11:2

    "For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

     

    Christ only has one bride, and the Bible calls that bride the Church, as well as the New Jerusalem. Therefore the Church and the New Jerusalem must logically be one and the same thing.

    Scripture demands it.
     
  8. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

    741
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    Christian
    You highlited in bold your own error. New Jerusalem is prepared AS a bride. Meaning it is made beautiful and adorned with all manner of jewels and beauty.

    The saints (us) are THE bride.
     
  9. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
    +3
    Protestant
    What's the difference? The saints are the Church.
     
  10. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

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    Christian
    "A" and "the" are grammatically referred to as articles. "A" is an indefinite article, which means it does not refer to anything definite or particular. "The" is called a definite article because when used it refers to something specific. The is used with specific nouns, and is required when the noun it accompanies refers to something that is one of a kind.

    See the difference?

    We also see here the use of the word "as". The manner in which it was used makes it a conjunctive and means in this grammatical context "in the same manner or way that". "Like" is another word that could fit here. "adorned like a bride". It is descriptive in nature and is in fact often used as an adverb.

    So, New Jerusalem will be adorned as a bride. The Church is the bride. Nowhere does it say the New Jerusalem is the bride.
     
  11. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Oh yes it does say exactly that!

    Revelation 21:9-12

    "Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife." And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the GREAT CITY, THE HOLY JERUSALEM, descending out of heaven from God." having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:" 


    The New Jerusalem is the Bride of the Lamb.
     
  12. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    It appears to be semantics for the Lord does not marry a city!!! That would not make sense. Does the Lord love Jerusalem, of course!!! But He does not love buildings, but what the city stands for. We all need to take reason into acount. May good hermenutics prevail.
     
  13. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Exactly!

    Which is why no one here (to my knowledge) is asserting that the earthly, georgaphic city of Jerusalem is the Bride of the Lamb.

    In contrast, the "New" Jerusalem descending from Heaven is not made with hands, it is a Holy city with God as it's builder. It is not buildings of brick and mortar such as those that make up the earthly location that shares it's name, but it is made of living stones. Prepared as a bride, because it is the bride.

    May good hermeneutics indeed prevail!
     
  14. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

    741
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    Christian
    Yes, good hermeneutics. See how many times God used Jerusalem in the OT as a reference to the whole nation of Israel or to His people as a whole.
    Jeremiah is full of this. I am not 100% sure of the other prophetic books but I would bet it plays out in those also.
     
  15. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
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    Protestant
    An excellent GOTCHA! :)

    It's really funny (I mean really funny) to watch people who claim to read the Bible "literally" trying every desperate hermeneutical trick to dodge the obvious literal meaning of a text!
     
  16. Frank

    Frank New Member

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    Come on man...you are stretching now.  You are a prophet?
     
  17. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Eric,

    I'm not sure what your point is with the above, and I would be glad to explore it further, but would you first care to comment on the error of your previous statement "Nowhere does it say the New Jerusalem is the bride. ??

    Clearly, as I demonstrated in my reply, Revelation 21:9-12 absolutely refutes that assertion.

     I will be happy to allow you the opportunity to retract that statement, so you may maintain at least some integrity with our readers.

    What say you?
     
  18. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

    741
    +6
    Christian
    My point above was exactly what I said and what is easily seen in the passage to which you refer.

    Rev 21:9 Then one of the seven angels, who had held the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues, came and spoke with me: "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."

    Where will the bride (the believers as a group) be living at this time? In the new Jerusalem?

    10 He then carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God ,

    If the bride is in New Jerusalem, wouldn't the city be the first thing John sees? Yes. Then in the following verses he goes on to describe what he saw.

    11 arrayed with God's glory. Her radiance was like a very precious stone, like a jasper stone, bright as crystal.
    12 The city had a massive high wall, with 12 gates. Twelve angels were at the gates; on the gates, names were inscribed, the names of the 12 tribes of the sons of Israel.


    I still fail to see where the CITY is referred to as THE bride. Without your well placed bold type, placing emphasis where it is not, there is no reference.

    I would like to get at exactly what you are saying here though. Maybe I don't understand. Are you trying to say that believers as a group are not the Bride of Christ, but the city is? Are you making a distinction between the two? I would like to know this so I know if i am arguing a moot point. If you believe the saints are the bride then it doesn't matter to me what you think about the New Jerusalem.
     
  19. judge

    judge Regular Member

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    Christian
    I've been wondering because in Revelation chapter 21 the new heaven and the new earth come down, but in chapter 22 :2 it says the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

    How can healing take place , unless that means now?

    I can't see how healing could take place in heaven or after the earth is destroyed. Can anyone help?
     
  20. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
    +3
    Protestant
    What "tree" is John referring to? It is the "tree of life" which is "on either side of the river." What is the "tree of life?" I would suggest you look to 1 Peter 2:24, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed."

    The "tree of life" is the cross, which stands at the very center of God's redemptive plan. The "leaves" are the wounds of Christ, which bring healing. The "tree" is "on either side of the river." The power of the cross to effect salvation is not limited to the next life. Its healing and liberating power is something we can (and should) experience in this life!
     
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