Dispensationalist Only The New Covenant

[Biblewriter]

The Bible speaks of a number of covenants made by God. The first of these which was actually called a covenant was with Noah. We read, “Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying: ‘And as for Me, behold, I establish My covenant with you and with your descendants after you, and with every living creature that is with you: the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you, of all that go out of the ark, every beast of the earth. Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.’ ” (Genesis 9:8-11)

Many generations later, God also made a covenant with Abraham, to give his descendants a land which Abraham himself never possessed. “On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: ‘To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates-- the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.’ ” (Genesis 15:18-21)

And in the days of Moses, God made yet another covenant with His people Israel. For we read, “Then the LORD said to Moses, ‘Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.’ So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” (Exodus 34:27-28) We need to notice that each of the first two covenants was unconditional. That is, there were no conditions attached to the promises. But this one, unlike the former covenants, was conditional. It promised blessings, but only if the people obeyed its commands.

Unconditional covenants from God are reliable. For He is reliable. But conditional covenants are not reliable. For we are not reliable. Sadly, “the house of Israel and the house of Judah” broke this last covenant, and thus lost its promised blessings. For we read: “And the LORD said to me, ‘A conspiracy has been found among the men of Judah and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. They have turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers who refused to hear My words, and they have gone after other gods to serve them; the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers.’ ” (Jeremiah 11:9-10)

Because this covenant had been cancelled due to their having broken it, God promised them a new one, saying: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

To understand this promise, we first need to notice to whom this “new covenant” was promised. It was specifically and explicitly promised to “the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.” Now some imagine that when Bible prophecy speaks of “Israel,” it actually means “the church.” And, although there is not a single scripture that actually says this, there are a few that seem to imply it. But there is not even a part of a verse, anywhere in the entire Bible, that provides even the slightest excuse for imagining that “Judah” means “the church.” So there is not even the slightest scriptural excuse for assuming that this “new covenant” was to be with “the church.” It was promised to “the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.” And two verses later it was again promised to “the house of Israel.”

But what was that covenant promised to be? “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.”

Now some claim that this “new covenant” has been fulfilled. But when they say this, they forget one critical principle. And that is that a promise has not been fulfilled until every detail of that promise has been fulfilled. So I must ask, is there even one Jew, or even one other descendant of the ancient nation of Israel, anywhere in the world, that does not “Know the Lord”? If so, and we know it is so, then, of necessity, we have no choice except to conclude that the promise of this “new covenant” has not been fulfilled. For the promise is that “they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.”

This is only one of the many places in scripture where Our God has promised that absolutely all of this rebellious and ancient nation will eventually be brought into His blessing. For in Ezekiel the Lord tells the “mountains of Israel,” along with “the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around,” that “I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities shall be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt. I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bear young; I will make you inhabited as in former times, and do better for you than at your beginnings.” (Ezekiel 36:4.10-11) In this passage, the Hebrew word “kol,” which literally translates as “all,” is repeated to stress that the Lord’s meaning is absolutely all of “the house of Israel.”

In the New Testament, Romans 11:26 says that “all Israel will be saved,” explaining two verses later that “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:28-29) and Jeremiah 24:6-7 says, “For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them back to this land; I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up. Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.” And this explains both how “they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” and “all Israel will be saved.” For God Himself has declared that at the promised time “they shall return to Me with their whole heart."

The Holy Spirit clarified His meaning in saying this. For He explicitly stated that His meaning was all of them that would still be living at the time this promise would finally be kept. This is clearly stated in three separate passages.

“ ‘And it shall come to pass in all the land,’
Says the LORD,
‘That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, “This is My people”;
And each one will say, “The LORD is my God.” ’ ”
(Zechariah 13:8-9)

“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.” (Zechariah 12:10-14)

“And it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy--everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem. When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning,” (Isaiah 4:3-4)

So the Holy Spirit has made it very clear that, after a time of great trouble, He will finally bring absolutely all of “the house of Israel” back to their ancient homeland, and will cause (also absolutely) all of them that are still living to turn back to Himself “with their whole heart,” with the result that “they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.” And until this is clearly understood, it will remain impossible to ever understand the promises of Jeremiah 31.

 

[Biblewriter]

Now many insist that Israel has been set aside, and that all the promises made to “Israel” have been transferred to “the church.” But immediately after promising this “new covenant” in Jeremiah 31:31-34, our God made it exceedingly clear that this would never happen, that His promises of eventual blessing to Israel are inviolate, and will never, under any condition whatsoever, be revoked. For He continued this passage by saying:

“Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
‘If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.’
Thus says the LORD:
‘If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD.
‘Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.’ ” (Jeremiah 31:35-40)

Here, we need to notice the words that “the seed of Israel” shall never “cease From being a nation before” the Lord. And that “all the seed of Israel” shall never be “cast off” “For all that they have done.” While these words are critically important, in and by themselves, they become far more important in view of one of the main arguments often presented against simply accepting these promises at face value, as simply meaning what they actually say. For we read, “Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, ‘And to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one, ‘And to your Seed,’ who is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16) And in regard to the promises referred to in ths particular scripture, the word “Seed” was indeed used in the singular, as a specific reference to our Lord Jesus Christ himself. Because of this, many imagine that wherever we find this word “seed” used in the promises of the Old Testament, they always refer to Christ Himself, rather to the descendants of whatever individual or group is under discussion. But here, in Jeremiah 31:35-40, we see this same Hebrew word twice used very specifically in a plural sense, as referring to an entire nation. And one of these two times is was specifically used in regard to the sins committed by that nation. So here, in Jeremiah 31:35-40, this word seed is unquestionably used in reference to the future descendants of the ancient nation of Israel. And what is said here? That these future descendants of that ancient nation would never, under any condition whatsoever, be “cast off” “For all that they have done.” Nor would they ever “cease From being a nation before” the Lord.

And lest anyone imagine that this was fulfilled in ancient times, they need to notice the last words of this promise, that “the city” “shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.” For we know that after the ancient return of a few of the Jews to their homeland, the city was again destroyed and its inhabitants were scattered to the four winds.

The immediate association of this promise with the pronouncement of the “new covenant” in Jeremiah 31:31-34, stresses the fact that this “new covenant” was not to be a covenant with all mankind, but “with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.”

We read again of Israel in the day when this is fulfilled: “As for Me,” says the LORD, “this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” says the LORD, “from this time and forevermore.” (Isaiah 59:21)

It could not possibly be more plain, that the time for this covenant has even now not yet come. For this promise is not only to Israel, but to their “descendants” and to their “descendants’ descendants,” “from this time and forevermore.” And we need to notice that the form of this statement excludes its meaning from even possibly being a reference to our Lord Jesus and those who believe in him. For although we, as believers today, are called God’s children, no scripture anywhere ever speaks of God’s grandchildren. Indeed, in reaching the gospel, we often refer to the fact that “God has no grandchildren.” In saying this, we are, of course, stressing the fact that every one of us needs to personally trust the Lord Jesus. The fact that our parents trust Him does not save us. But each of us needs to individually put our faith in the saving power of His blood.

The everlasting nature of this covenant is again stated in Ezekiel, where the Lord first reminds them of their failure, saying, “I will deal with you as you have done, who despised the oath by breaking the covenant.” (Ezekiel 16:59) And then He says, “Nevertheless I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed, when you receive your older and your younger sisters; for I will give them to you for daughters, but not because of My covenant with you. And I will establish My covenant with you. Then you shall know that I am the LORD,” that you may remember and be ashamed, and never open your mouth anymore because of your shame, when I provide you an atonement for all you have done," says the Lord GOD.’ ” (Ezekiel 16:60-63)

Here the Lord not only stressed the everlasting nature of this promised new covenant, but that it will be given in spite of the fact that they had broken the previous covenant. And He also stressed that this covenant would be with Israel, the nation that had broken their covenant with the Lord.

And both the everlasting nature of this covenant, and the fact that it will specifically be with Israel, is stressed in the following passage: “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God. “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ” (Ezekiel 37:21-28)

We find this covenant again in its specific application to Israel three chapters earlier in Ezekiel: “And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken. “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing.” (Ezekiel 34:24-26)

We have taken the time to trace all these places where this “new covenant” is mentioned in order to see that, wherever God mentioned it, it was specifically restricted to Israel. And this restriction is even carried on into the New Testament. For there we also read: “And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:26-29)

And we need to notice in passing, that the stated reason for this is, “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” This one statement, in and by itself, totally destroys the false claim that God has set Israel aside for ever, and has totally transferred all her promises to “the church.” For an “irrevocable” gift can never be revoked. And the “gifts” “of God,” even as His callings, “are irrevocable.” And this is explicitly stated as the reason that Israel remains, to this very day “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” And this in turn is God’s explanation of His previous words, “And so all Israel will be saved.”

 

[Biblewriter]

And again we read: “But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: ‘Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on thei r hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.’ In that He says, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:6-13)

This, being an exact quotation of the entire passage from Jeremiah 31:31-34, is clearly stated to be a covenant “with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,” and again “with the house of Israel.” And again part of this same passage is quoted two chapters later.

“And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, ‘This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,’ then He adds, ‘Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.’ Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.” (Hebrews 10:11-18)

This is the first place we have examined in which this covenant is mentioned without explicitly stating that it is with Israel. But even in this passage, although it does not quote the words that this new covenant was to be with Israel, it quoted the words “them” and “their,” which were both specific references to the nation of Israel.

But what was to be the basis, the essence, of this “new covenant”? Our God said, “ ‘Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law.’ Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it: ‘I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.’ ” (Isaiah 42:1-7)

And again, speaking in the person of the great Messiah, He said, “Listen, O coastlands, to Me, And take heed, you peoples from afar! The LORD has called Me from the womb; From the matrix of My mother He has made mention of My name. And He has made My mouth like a sharp sword; In the shadow of His hand He has hidden Me, And made Me a polished shaft; In His quiver He has hidden Me.” ‘And He said to me, ‘You are My servant, O Israel, In whom I will be glorified.’ Then I said, ‘I have labored in vain, I have spent my strength for nothing and in vain; Yet surely my just reward is with the LORD, And my work with my God.’ ” “And now the LORD says, Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, So that Israel is gathered to Him (For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, And My God shall be My strength), Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up As a covenant to the people; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ” Thus says the LORD, The Redeemer of Israel, their Holy One, To Him whom man despises, To Him whom the nation abhors, To the Servant of rulers: “Kings shall see and arise, Princes also shall worship, Because of the LORD who is faithful, The Holy One of Israel; And He has chosen You.” Thus says the LORD: "In an acceptable time I have heard You, And in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth, To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages; That You may say to the prisoners, ‘Go forth,’ To those who are in darkness, ‘Show yourselves.’ ” They shall feed along the roads, And their pastures shall be on all desolate heights.” (Isaiah 49:1-9)

In both of these two passages the promised “covenant” is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, who came as the promised Messiah and was rejected and crucified for the sins of His people. In the first of these passages He was to be given, not just “as a covenant to the people,” but also “As a light to the Gentiles.” And in the second one He would not only be the Lord’s “Servant” “To raise up the tribes of Jacob, And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;” but also to be “a light to the Gentiles.” But He would be given “As a covenant to the people.” So, in both of these passages, as in Jeremiah 31, the covenant nature of His coming was “to the people.” And in both of them this word, “the people” is distinctly contrasted to “the Gentiles,” making it very clear that this expression was intended to mean “Jacob” and “Israel.” And as we noticed earlier concerning the name Judah, although there is some excuse for incorrectly imagining that “Israel” means “the church,” there is no possible excuse, anywhere in the entire Bible, for imagining that “Jacob” means “the church.”

So we see that, when this covenant is mentioned, its covenant nature is repeatedly restricted to Israel. He comes also to deliver the Gentiles, but our God has repeatedly stressed that His covenant is with Israel. And He has also stressed, by stating it over and over, that the fact that Hs covenant is with Israel is distinctly opposed to its being with the gentiles.

But the person of this “new covenant” is Jesus, the great promised Messiah. And “in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35) So the promise is expanded to be “that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16) Even as in the Old Testament the promise had been made to “Everyone who thirsts.” (Isaiah 55:1) So in a few places we find this covenant mentioned in a larger context. But as we examine this larger context of the new covenant, we need to remember the words, “And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.” (Galatians 3:17-18) This scripture clearly teaches that what God says at a later time can in no way cancel any promise He has already made at an earlier time. So the fact that this “new covenant” has now been expanded to include all who believe, can in no way set aside the nature of its explicit promises to the ancient nation of Israel, which, as we have seen, were explicitly stated to be both absolutely inviolate and eternal.

 

[Biblewriter]

The old covenant made with Israel through Moses was a covenant based in this world, with laws and ceremonies suited to a people of this world. And the “new covenant” promised to Israel was also a covenant based in this world, and suited to a people of this world.

But God has “provided something better for us.” (Hebrews 11:40) For “Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.” (Hebrews 9:11-15) “By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.” (Hebrews 7:22)

And so we “have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.” (Hebrews 12:22-24)

This “new covenant,” as applied to ourselves today, is something far better than what was promised to Israel of old. For their promises were all of blessing in this world. But the blessings promised to us go far beyond that, to eternal blessings in the heavens. But the “new covenant,” as applied to both Israel and to the church, comes only through the blood shed by our Lord Jesus at Calvary. So our Lord explicitly mentioned it in the establishment of the memorial feast that in scripture is called “the Lord’s supper,” (1 Corinthians 11:20) as recorded in Matthew 26:26-30, Mark 14:22-26, and 1 Corinthians 11:23-26.

And in regard to ourselves, as in regard to Israel, this “new covenant” is eternal. For we read, “Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.” (Hebrews 13:20-21)

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

I'm sorry I don't have a detailed proof on the subject but would not this covenant made to Israel work best when the Lord returns to set up the Millennial Kingdom on the Earth. Jer 31:34 does not sound like today since not everyone knows the Lord. It also seems odd that we are not called to teach every man his neighbor. What is the use of this forum if that was the case?

Grace and Mercy to brother and thank you for the post.

 

[Biblewriter]

I'm sorry I don't have a detailed proof on the subject but would not this covenant made to Israel work best when the Lord returns to set up the Millennial Kingdom on the Earth. Jer 31:34 does not sound like today since not everyone knows the Lord. It also seems odd that we are not called to teach every man his neighbor. What is the use of this forum if that was the case?

Grace and Mercy to brother and thank you for the post.

I am quite certain that the fulfillment of this new covenant will be in the millennium.

 

[food4thought]

@Biblewriter So does the mention of the New Covenant in Hebrews apply only to Israel, or does it apply to the church as well? Or is it partially fulfilled now, but only to be completely fulfilled in the Kingdom?

I'm still a bit fuzzy on that.

 

[Biblewriter]

@Biblewriter So does the mention of the New Covenant in Hebrews apply only to Israel, or does it apply to the church as well? Or is it partially fulfilled now, but only to be completely fulfilled in the Kingdom?

I'm still a bit fuzzy on that.

Some of the mentions of the "new covenant" in Hebrews unquestionably refer to its future fulfillment. And the Epistle was "To the Hebrews." That is, to Israelite Christians. So it is specifically addressed to them. But some of the references to the new covenant in this book seem, by their wording, to possibly have a wider application.

 

[Dan Perez]

Some of the mentions of the "new covenant" in Hebrews unquestionably refer to its future fulfillment. And the Epistle was "To the Hebrews." That is, to Israelite Christians. So it is specifically addressed to them. But some of the references to the new covenant in this book seem, by their wording, to possibly have a wider application.

Hi Biblewriter , long time since I have been together and remember TERRAL , RIVERRAT and DANOH !
Just asking , what does " have a wider application , mean ??

dan p

 

[Biblewriter]

Hi Biblewriter , long time since I have been together and remember TERRAL , RIVERRAT and DANOH !
Just asking , what does " have a wider application , mean ??

dan p

By that I meant "has been expanded to include "the church."

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

@Biblewriter So does the mention of the New Covenant in Hebrews apply only to Israel, or does it apply to the church as well? Or is it partially fulfilled now, but only to be completely fulfilled in the Kingdom?

I'm still a bit fuzzy on that.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. 27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

I think the physical component of the new covenant is for Israel but the spiritual blessings are for all who are called saints.

2Cor. 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[Tractor1]

Jesus Christ has ratified the New Covenant, but has not yet enacted it. Its unenacted status is what necessitates that Jesus be the guarantee of the New Covenant (Hebrews 7:22). If enactment had already occurred, no need for the guarantee would exist. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself is that guarantee for the enactment with Israel of that better covenant.
The blessings that believers enjoy today (because Christ has ratified the New Covenant promise) are distinct from its enactment at Christ’s second coming. These are two distinct and separate events. The ratification by blood has only made the future enactment of the New Covenant with Israel doubly certain. Guaranteeing its future enactment directly negates any claim that the cross has already enacted it. Today, Jesus’ presence before the Father21 is the guarantee of its future fulfillment.
Present-day believers have received the temporary tokens of the future enactment of the New Covenant—the bread and the cup. These tokens recall the sacrifice that ratified the covenant until God enacts the covenant itself at the Lord’s return.22 The tokens
are only temporary, so believers must wait and patiently endure: till He come (1 Corinthians 11:26). In the meantime, we have an altar, from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat (Hebrews 13:10). The New Covenant: Ratified, or Enacted? Chafer Theological Seminary

 

[RexColin]

Isn't the New Covenant for Israel and not for the gentiles? In that gentiles are to be grafted in to Israel in order to become partakers of the New Covenant? The Good news being the invitation to first the Jews, then the gentiles to take part in the Kingdom of God at hand, which is and has always been Israel as his bride whom he divorced and remarried fulfilling Deuteronomy 24 law of the husband upon the cross and returning to life to claim his bride Israel? The word or a people group called church is never mentioned as far as I know in a covenant promise with God. The church was simply an assembly gathering of get this, citezens of Israel and not gentiles who abandon the law to become believers in a promise not intended for them outside of becoming part of Israel, in legal law abiding covenant with God. People sent Jesus messiah of Israel to gentiles, when jesus sent word for gentiles to come to Israel and serve him as adopted children of his Kingdom.

 

[thomas15]

A few years ago I was working on getting an understanding of the differences between dispensational and covenant theology. I sort of let the matter slide but have decided to revisit the issue.

I think it is interesting the way the two camps defend their positions. For me I will get my answer from the Bible. At this point I have a very difficult time seeing the Church as spiritual Israel and if Jehovah were to truly back out of the promises made to the sons of Abraham then what makes the Christian think He couldn't do the same to the Christians? I base my assumptions on the idea that Godly believers of all ages are saved by the shed blood of Christ and none are saved for eternity by animal sacrifices or by the law.

 

[thomas15]

duplicate sorry

 

[RexColin]

None are saved by the law, but those who are saved are loyal to the one who did save us by obeying his laws. By being faithful to the Christ who was the perfect example of faithfulness, we live our faith through obedience and love, just as he did for us. Truly agree with the premise that God is not a promise breaker, he keeps his covenants, and so should we.

 

[thomas15]

Rex, I agree.

I mentioned that a few years ago I started a study on the differences between dispensational and covenant theology. In that, I have collected a number of books (probably 40 or 50 total) representative of each position. I think it is difficult to gain an understanding of either position from a casual reading.

Last night, I went to the shelf and picked out what is considered a beginners book on covenant theology (God of Promise by M. Horton). As an individual with at least average comprehension skills and formal education, I would classify the opening introductory chapters as a "word salad". Or stated differently, a collection of thoughts that have an authoritative but disorganized thought pattern. This is not an insult to the author rather just an honest opinion of the work itself.

My attitude on the whole thing is that the central question on a broad front is "what say ye of the Christ" not is the Church spiritual Israel or did God the Father make a covenant in the beginning with God the Son to purchase the salvation of sinful man. But on the other hand we are instructed in the NT to have sound doctrine and use the Bible as the authority of our doctrine.

Take care Brother
Tom

 

[RexColin]

Great insight. My premise is the church has existed since the first Passover as is translated in English as "holy assembly" then later at Sinai as "holy convocation" both assembly and convocation in septuagent Greek are word derivatives of ekklesia, aka church. Just something to ponder in your search for truth. But I am certain Jesus orchestrated death to passover his church many times through history, from Egypt to present day he has been saving us who loves him back and follows his ways. Happy passover brother.
Colin

 

[thomas15]

Again I agree.

I'm of the opinion that the truth is the truth, even when that truth is spoken by a liar.

I went over to visit a reformed only board that has a sub forum for a discussion of dispensationalism. I say this as kindly as possible but the dislike of dispensational theology at this particular chat forum is actually shocking to me. The posters there have stronger opinions against dispies than they do for the preterist. How do you argue with an individual that thinks that way?

 

[thomas15]

In post #17 I mentioned a book on covenant theology by M. Horton.

On page #9 of that book, which is the first page of text, Mr. Horton states "Yet before, during and after humankind's broken promises, the promise-making and promise keeping God is present and will not let the web fall apart."

Apply this concept to the reformed theory that Jehovah has discontinued his promise to the son's of Abraham due to their unfaithfulness.