The new covenant

Buzz_B

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There not in the version I looked at.

What version did you get these from?
The King James Version. Of course I added the word torah in parenthesis to show that the word "law" is that Hebrew word before being translated into English as "law."

The New World Translation lists those in verse 34 as "his statutes and his judicial decisions and the law and the commandment", and in verse 37 as "the regulations and the judicial decisions and the law and the commandment..."

Today's New International Version as "the decrees and regulations, the laws and commands", and "the decrees and regulations, the laws and commands.."
 
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ToBeLoved

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The King James Version. Of course I added the word torah in parenthesis to show that the word "law" is that Hebrew word before being translated into English as "law."

The New World Translation lists those in verse 34 as "his statutes and his judicial decisions and the law and the commandment", and in verse 37 as "the regulations and the judicial decisions and the law and the commandment..."

Today's New International Version as "the decrees and regulations, the laws and commands", and "the decrees and regulations, the laws and commands.."
Well that is what I would call dishonest, to quote scripture word for word and then add your own 'text' in the middle of scripture.

Why not add it after or in red and make it known you changed scripture?

Wow!

How do you respect God's Holy Word if you change it on your own whim?

Good thing I questioned never reading the word 'Torah' in there or else I might have believed it.
 
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Buzz_B

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Well that is what I would call dishonest, to quote scripture word for word and then add your own 'text' in the middle of scripture.

Why not add it after or in red and make it known you changed scripture?

Wow!

How do you respect God's Holy Word if you change it on your own whim?

Good thing I questioned never reading the word 'Torah' in there or else I might have believed it.
I will consider that your comment is made in a noble spirit of love, but I added nothing by the insertion of <(torah) being as that is the word which appears in the untranslated Hebrew text we began with before translating those verses. The <( was to indicate that the word, "law", was being referenced.

I do admire your zeal toward having the unhindered text, for I fully agree with you that any alteration to that text is wrong. However, as can be seen by the variations among translators, there is a measure of confusion as to exactly what the virgin Hebrew text means. And that is my point in posting those verses. Hopefully, I can get help for my own confusion with regard to those words. And I do admit that I am not fully certain that I understand the differences in those words, the lexicons themselves being somewhat confusing concerning those words.

So please forgive me if it seems that I am trying to falsify the text in any way. I am just hoping for others to be able to share their insight with me and perhaps be able to clear up some of my own confusion through that sharing.

Your comments and opinions are appreciated very much to that end. :)
 
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Buzz_B

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What are the Hebrew words underlying these? What are the distinctions?
Yes, that is a very good question. I have been pondering those roots for some time now and have noted that various lexicographers seem to somewhat fudge those words together in their discussions almost to the point where those words all seem to be speaking of essentially the same thing. My problem with that is in that if they do not have clearly separate and distinct meanings there would have been no point to listing them together as if they indicate different things. I cannot seem to get past that and so am searching for exactly how they convey different thoughts. Your thoughts as to how you see those words as differing from one another would be appreciated.

As an example of my ponderings I will use Genesis 26:5 “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws”

Abraham kept God's “Charge” by watching out to see to it that all who were his (that is, 'in his charge by the grace of God to whom all things belong') were obedient to God's instructions along with himself, “Mishmereth” is feminine gender denoting a submissive service to God as a guardian of God's interests, such as how a wife would look out for the interests of her husband to the benefit of all that are his household. The root is “shamar” meaning to hedge about as in to protect, thus denoting the purpose of our appointment.

Abraham kept God's “commandments” by willingly imposing upon himself and all who were in his charge, whatever God told him to do, such as at Genesis 12:1 “Now Yahweh had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee.”
Genesis 26:5 “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws”

Abraham kept God's “statutes.” The root indicates an engraved impression, perhaps indicating that statutes are set of God for specific things and circumstances rather than like eternal always existent laws which apply equally to everything in all situations. This is where it gets confusing for most of us. How does a law differ from a statute? The problem is that the word, “law”, can be used as all encompassing of specially made legislation which apply to specific groups of individuals or situations by decree or the word, “law”, can more precisely be used to reference God's natural ever-existing eternal laws, such as is the law of love.

A statute is evidently any law which God decrees as specifically applying to that flesh and blood nation of Israel (or, as in the latter case, specifically to the two-tribe kingdom of Judah and Benjamin of the flesh) under that Old Law Covenant. Such statutes do not necessarily carry forward into the New Covenant unless God decrees them under the New Covenant and then they apply to spiritual Israel rather than to fleshly Israel. However, God's eternally existent laws, like the law of love, are present with us at all times in all situations, with or without a covenant.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I will consider that your comment is made in a noble spirit of love, but I added nothing by the insertion of <(torah) being as that is the word which appears in the untranslated Hebrew text we began with before translating those verses. The <( was to indicate that the word, "law", was being referenced.

I do admire your zeal toward having the unhindered text, for I fully agree with you that any alteration to that text is wrong. However, as can be seen by the variations among translators, there is a measure of confusion as to exactly what the virgin Hebrew text means. And that is my point in posting those verses. Hopefully, I can get help for my own confusion with regard to those words. And I do admit that I am not fully certain that I understand the differences in those words, the lexicons themselves being somewhat confusing concerning those words.

So please forgive me if it seems that I am trying to falsify the text in any way. I am just hoping for others to be able to share their insight with me and perhaps be able to clear up some of my own confusion through that sharing.

Your comments and opinions are appreciated very much to that end. :)
As you said we have the Hebrew so translations aren’t part of this conversation right now.

I looked at the Hebrew. Which word do you think means or is equal to Torah?
 
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ralliann

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I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant. Though it is repeated from Jeremiah 31:31-34, the writer of hebrews obviously feels this is the essence of it:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17
Hi Stuart, If we read the book of Hebrews, I think we find the Abrahamic covenants to concern wills of inheritance. I say wills as plural, since God made two covenants with Abraham. One covenant made in Genesis 15, and another in Genesis 17. My thoughts in reading those inheritances, one concerns an earthly worldly inheritance, and the other concerns an heavenly inheritance. Interestingly, it is the second inheritance which concerns spiritual seed, born of promise, and the first covenant, which is the natural seed, born of flesh. In Christ we are all heirs in the second covenant (inheritance).
 
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joshua 1 9

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I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant.
The Old Covenant looked forward to the Sacrifice Jesus would make at calvary. When they died they went to a place in the earth referred to as Abraham's Bosom. Under the New Covenant, based on better promises we look back to the work Jesus accomplished.
 
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ralliann

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The Old Covenant looked forward to the Sacrifice Jesus would make at calvary.

The covenant that looked forward to Christ's death, is the covenant established in Isaac.
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
When did Abraham see it?

Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Of the Levitical priesthood it says this....

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:


When they died they went to a place in the earth referred to as Abraham's Bosom. Under the New Covenant, based on better promises we look back to the work Jesus accomplished.
Yes it is a better inheritance in Christ Jesus.
 
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joshua 1 9

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The covenant that looked forward to Christ's death, is the covenant established in Isaac.
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
When did Abraham see it?

Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Of the Levitical priesthood it says this....

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:



Yes it is a better inheritance in Christ Jesus.
The verse we want to look at is 22:8 "Abraham answered: “God himself will provide". And the two of them went on together."

Here we are in the 22 chapter of Genesis and Moses is showing us God's plan of redemption and salvation. This is why Jesus says: "I and the Father are One". John 10:30 I (Ego) & the Father (Pater) are one, united in purpose and intent.
 
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joshua 1 9

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What are the Hebrew words underlying these? What are the distinctions?
For a discusson on the law look at the 119 Psalm. David does a good job of teaching us the purpose and intent of God's Law, Commandments, Precepts, Statutes Decrees and so on.

"Blessed are those whose ways are blameless according to the law of the Lord." (Psalm 1) Those who follow the law are blameless before God.

"Blessed are those who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart—" The statutes have to do with the heart being dedicated to God. "We know that David was man after God's own heart".
 
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FreeAtLast

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Shalom @stuart lawrence ,

Thanks for your question. I'm amazed at the difference in the replies here. But, that is nature of a discussion, you can get lots of different views.

In my studies, I have come to realize that the words of the prophet Jeremiah in verses 31:31-34 are G-d's words telling us what is to come when Yeshua ushers in HIS New Covenant, UNLIKE the Covenant made with Israel at Sinai (Mosaic).

This prophecy is fulfilled in Luke 22:20.

The writer of Hebrews refers to both of these; the prophecy in Jeremiah and the fulfillment by Yeshua in Luke and reaffirms that Yeshua's NEW covenant, is unlike the Old (Mosaic Law / Covenant).

Hebrews 10:8-10
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

To refute the idea that the NEW Covenant is actually the same as the Covenant made with Moses in the Old Covenant, the New Covenant clearly shows that the Old one, which contained the Law of Moses including the 4th commandment (Sabbath) and was required, has been replaced by Yeshua's NEW Covenant, which makes adhering to the Sabbath laws, not required, but a choice.
Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Born again Believers in Yeshua are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Born again Believers in Yeshua have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Born again Believers in Yeshua are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Yeshua redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in G-d’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked G-d would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Yeshua has ended the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

G-d has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)
 
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ralliann

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The verse we want to look at is 22:8 "Abraham answered: “God himself will provide". And the two of them went on together."

Here we are in the 22 chapter of Genesis and Moses is showing us God's plan of redemption and salvation. This is why Jesus says: "I and the Father are One". John 10:30 I (Ego) & the Father (Pater) are one, united in purpose and intent.
Hi Joshua. I chose that verse because of what Hebrews says. Abraham thought Isaac was the sacrifice, since he thought God would raise him from the dead.
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

That is what God tested Abraham concerning, the resurrection. Abraham was not actually given the land until the covenant of Genesis 17. In Genesis 15, the land was given to those from the fourth generation and Abe was told he would die. Therefore Abe knew his inheritance was in the next world, the next life in a resurrection from the dead. Same is true of the Isaac, and Jacob...the first and second generation of his seed, heirs with him of the promise....:). And wht Joseph told them to bring his bones up with them when they were visited of God in Egypt.

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.


Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
 
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ralliann

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Hi Joshua. I chose that verse because of what Hebrews says. Abraham thought Isaac was the sacrifice, since he thought God would raise him from the dead.
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

That is what God tested Abraham concerning, the resurrection. Abraham was not actually given the land until the covenant of Genesis 17. In Genesis 15, the land was given to those from the fourth generation and Abe was told he would die. Therefore Abe knew his inheritance was in the next world, the next life in a resurrection from the dead. Same is true of the Isaac, and Jacob...the first and second generation of his seed, heirs with him of the promise....:). And wht Joseph told them to bring his bones up with them when they were visited of God in Egypt.
Once Abes faith was made complete, God swore an oath. It would be without repentance...established.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.


Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
 
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joshua 1 9

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Hi Joshua. I chose that verse because of what Hebrews says. Abraham thought Isaac was the sacrifice, since he thought God would raise him from the dead.
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

That is what God tested Abraham concerning, the resurrection. Abraham was not actually given the land until the covenant of Genesis 17. In Genesis 15, the land was given to those from the fourth generation and Abe was told he would die. Therefore Abe knew his inheritance was in the next world, the next life in a resurrection from the dead. Same is true of the Isaac, and Jacob...the first and second generation of his seed, heirs with him of the promise....:). And wht Joseph told them to bring his bones up with them when they were visited of God in Egypt.

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.


Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
The story of Abraham is a Paradigm. Every detail has meaning for us today.
 
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I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant. Though it is repeated from Jeremiah 31:31-34, the writer of hebrews obviously feels this is the essence of it:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17
We are as Abraham was. No law other than what God tells us through his Spirit. A person who needs a list of does and don'ts is weak in faith.

We should seek to become true sons of the Most High God and Father, led by the Spirit that he gives through baptism.
 
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