the new covenant

[Frogster]

That exact form of the word for "holy" in Hebrews 10:10 is used in only 1 other verse, that in my favorite Gospel of John

Hebrew 10:10 In which will having been hallowed/hgiasmenoi <37> (5772) we are thru the offering of the body of the Christ once for all.

Textus Rec.) Hebrews 10:10 en w qelhmati hgiasmenoi esmen oi dia thV prosforaV tou swmatoV tou ihsou cristou efapax

John 17:19 And for sake of them I am hallowing Myself that also they may-be having been hallowed/hgiasmenoi <37> (5772) in truth

Textus Rec.) John 17:19 kai uper autwn egw agiazw emauton ina kai autoi wsin hgiasmenoi en alhqeia

You seem more like a Luke,kinda guy?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The moral law is character. It is not a to do list.

mostly they're "to don't" lists

I appreciate both your comments .

they work together well .

bless .

 

[Frogster]

Let me answer this first. "I take it that you mean that God's law is the Old Covenant."

God's Law is not the covenant. The covenant was simply the agreement.

God's Law is the Moral Law contained in the ten commandments.

At the time of Christ, there was a Jewish belief present that the 10 laws written on stone were the true laws of God. All the rest were added because of the golden calf incident. The belief was that when the new covenant of Jeremiah was established that these would be the ten laws written on the heart of God's people.

This is evident if you examine all the other laws on conduct you will see that there is nothing new there. It is simply a big list of offenses that fall under the Moral Law from the tablets and the temporal punishments for breaking them.

So, when we speak of God's law in the context of the New Covenant we are speaking of the Ten Commandments.

Actually there were some sins about worse things,in the 613,that were written in stone,as far as moral laws go.

We need some Lutherans, Calvinists and EO's to come in here

diversity.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I believe statements such as

Paul says in 1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

need to be taken into full scriptural context

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

Since circumcision is one of the commandments .. which commandments are being spoken of?

love .

 

[Frogster]

It also doesn't mean that people are not still in the OC and thinking that they're in the new either.

Then why are people still bound in the law? fi, those things that are not spritually dealt with are still following the pattern of the OC. That's why the transition isn't much further ahead than it was in the times of James, except the circumcision is of the heart. Back to love again eh


Hebrews 8:13



13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

What is ready to vanish away? Not the new creation. The old nature already has spiritually, in the process of being renewed mentally and waiting for resurrection in the body. What else is waiting to vanish away except the old heavens and old earth. The old covenent is past, the new creation is and the new heaven/earth are yet to come. Where does that new covenent come in then?

maybe we are saying the same thing..

The new cov,was ratified in the blood of the cross,reguardless of whether or not men walk in it,or know it.

That is what I meant by,the word of god did not fail.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You seem more like a Luke,kinda guy?

Who cannot but be awed by one of the most awsome Covenantle parables in the NT/NC

That parable harmonizes with the book of Revelation like "white on rice"

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me,
that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us[spirit/life] and ye[law/death] a chasm great hath been established so that those willing to cross-over hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying

Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable - Christian Forums
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

 

[Frogster]

So tell me how do you have a contract with no conditions? Everything within the contract is the contract. The COI agreed to the 'Ten,' well at least I thought so. Since you say they did not what was or is the covenat with the COI? Jere 31:31 says it will be a different contract not like the one with their fathers. The new contract has to be different.

bugkiller

Exactly.Peter as you know,in Acts 15,said the law was a yoke,that their fathers could not bear.Yet jesus said His yoke was easy..love...

 

[Frogster]

I believe statements such as



need to be taken into full scriptural context

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

Since circumcision is one of the commandments .. which commandments are being spoken of?

love .

Considering the whole book was about not being altered,and converting.Why would Paul tuen around and say,go get altered?

What he meant was being a jew,or a gentile,does not really matter,just the Gospel does,where jew and gentile doesnt matter,it did not accomplish anything.

Gal 5;6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision accomplishes anything; what matters is faith working through love.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well .. since the very fabric of our being is being altered .. i doubt such a minor alteration would be deemed necessary ..

Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

okay okay ..

now the fruit of the spirit is ..

 

[Frogster]

Who cannot but be awed by one of the most awsome Covenantle parables in the NT/NC

That parable harmonizes with the book of Revelation like "white on rice"

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me,
that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us[spirit/life] and ye[law/death] a chasm great hath been established so that those willing to cross-over hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying

Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable - Christian Forums
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

Galatians is whole grain brown rice,revelation is just Rice-a roni! Uncle bens!

 

[Frogster]

Well .. since the very fabric of our being is being altered .. i doubt such a minor alteration would be deemed necessary ..

Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

okay okay ..

now the fruit of the spirit is ..

Not being like the fellow in Acts 8?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Not being like the fellow in Acts 8?

ohhhhh no .. no resemblance .. AT all ..

bless Jesus . He shows so much grace!

 

[bugkiller]

If one has faith in God they will believe what He says and if one believes what He says they will do what He commands.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
(Even the demons believe that God is, but they don’t obey Him. A lot of people are like that.)


1 Jo. 5:3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 Jo. 2:4 He who says “I know Him” and does not keep His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him.

It is true that we will not be saved by our works, but Jesus does say that we will be rewarded according to our works. Rev. 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his works.”

James tells us that faith is manifested in our works. Ja. 2:14-18 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Even though works can’t earn you salvation you do earn something for sinning. Ro. 6:23 For the wages (i.e. what your earn) of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Paul says in 1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

It’s very simple if we have faith we will keep God’s commandments. That is the only way to know if we have faith or not. That is the fruit of the spirit.

What happened to I John 3:23? And this is His commandment that we should believe on name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as He gave us commandment. We are talking New Testament. Where do we find this commandment in the Old?

I want to understand what you are saying by quoting these verses:
1 Jo. 5:3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 Jo. 2:4 He who says “I know Him” and does not keep His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him.

Is it that we are to keep the 'Ten Commandments?' I think that is what you're saying. It really SHOUTS keep the Sabbath to me. If not what are you saying? Are you accussing those who don't keep the Sabbath of sinning? This is usually what law pushers are saying.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I suppose we disagree. You believe that God's Moral Law has been cancelled. I do not believe the text supports that conclusion.

The whole notion that the moral Law has been cancelled is actually something very new. The Church did not believe that for 1600 years before the Reformation. None of the Reformers taught that. So, where did it come from?

You believe that God's Moral Law has been cancelled.

Please tell me where I said that. I asked you what God's Moral Law was and to provide a sample quote. Don't you know what it is? Before you tell me I beleive it has been cancelled, shouldn't you tell me what it is? It should be easy: God's Moral Law is ____________ and an example is __________. I don't understand what is so difficult about that.

If you really are Catholic you would believe that the RCC church changed the Saturday Sabbath to a Sunday Sabbath. A Sunday Sabbath is not supported by the Bible anywhere. BTW there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath. And would be a change in what I think you are calling God' Moral Law. You just won't say yes, no or identify it. Why? What is so unreasonable about that? Help me out, please, pretty please. I even put it in pink and bold so it would show up. You indicate you are Catholic and argue like a SDA. I certianly don't understand.

bugkiller

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The weekly service day was changed to the scriptural offering day

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

i wouldn't know why money would be a motivating factor though ..

 

[Secundulus]

Please tell me where I said that. I asked you what God's Moral Law was and to provide a sample quote. Don't you know what it is? Before you tell me I beleive it has been cancelled, shouldn't you tell me what it is? It should be easy: God's Moral Law is ____________ and an example is __________. I don't understand what is so difficult about that.

I already told you it is the ten Commandments.

If you really are Catholic you would believe that the RCC church changed the Saturday Sabbath to a Sunday Sabbath. A Sunday Sabbath is not supported by the Bible anywhere. BTW there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath. And would be a change in what I think you are calling God' Moral Law. You just won't say yes, no or identify it. Why? What is so unreasonable about that? Help me out, please, pretty please. I even put it in pink and bold so it would show up. You indicate you are Catholic and argue like a SDA. I certianly don't understand.

Paul in his Epistles said the specific day is unimportant as long as we dedicate our worship to God. The Book of Hebrews says that through Christ we have entered into the eternal sabbath. So, for those in Christ, every day is the sabbath. We dedicate our day of worship on the day of the resurrection which is the 1st day of the week. We are not obligated to worship on the Jewish Sabbath which is on the 7th day.

And no, I am not arguing like an SDA. Everything I have said here is Catholic Theology.

 

[bugkiller]

I already told you it is the ten Commandments.

I thank you from the very bottom of my heart. Now I understand what you said. Again thank you very much. Even as a guy I'm sending you a . Please don't take it wrong.

Paul in his Epistles said the specific day is unimportant as long as we dedicate our worship to God. The Book of Hebrews says that through Christ we have entered into the eternal sabbath. So, for those in Christ, every day is the sabbath. We dedicate our day of worship on the day of the resurrection which is the 1st day of the week. We are not obligated to worship on the Jewish Sabbath which is on the 7th day.

And no, I am not arguing like an SDA. Everything I have said here is Catholic Theology.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I think it would do you good to explore what the RCC says about changing the 'Ten Commandments' on the fourth. They claim to have changed this moral law. Well on second thought , just go to the SDA board and ask what the RCC says about the Sabbath. That way you won't have to do any research. They will cover you up and with references like wall papering your house. Again I agree with your statement above concerning the Sabbath.

I think it would benefit you greatly to study about covenants. Notice I'm not telling you what to do. Just making a suggestion to help you grow in the Lord.

Blessings

bugkiller

 

[Secundulus]

I think it would do you good to explore what the RCC says about changing the 'Ten Commandments' on the fourth. They claim to have changed this moral law.

They do not claim to have changed the Sabbath and explicitly state that the Sabbath is on the 7th day. They say that we worship on the 1st day.

Also, I know what the SDA say. I was part of an SDA congregation once and read all of Ellen White's books.

 

[bugkiller]

They do not claim to have changed the Sabbath and explicitly state that the Sabbath is on the 7th day. They say that we worship on the 1st day.

Also, I know what the SDA say. I was part of an SDA congregation once and read all of Ellen White's books.

ROFLOL!
If'n you say so. I talk with 'em all the time and that's not what they tell me. Still think it would be worth your time and trouble.

bugkiller

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Changing the law has nothing to do with the 10 commandments. It's about no longer sacrificing animals.

Heb 10:
8 In this Scripture he first said, "You do not want sacrifices and offerings. You do not ask for burnt offerings and offerings to take away sins." (These are all sacrifices that the law commands.) 9 Then he said, "Look, I have come to do what you want." God ends the first system of sacrifices so he can set up the new system.


Christ as the sacrifice is the order of Melchisedek that we are all to tythe to with our obedience.

"I prefer obedience to sacrifice"