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The NATURE of the resurrection, second coming, Heavens & Earth passing, etc.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by parousia70, Mar 17, 2002.

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  1. O boy would some body please kick that old retriever. He keeps bring back that same dead duck over and over and over againg. Where is the scripture which says "Christ will reign on the EARTH on Davids throne. There is no such scripture.
  2. Well Thunder it seems you not only add things to the Bible you also add to what people are saying. Parousia never said David is Christ's Father. Parousia said: The Above scripture says God promised David He would "raise up" Christ to sit on Davids throne, and the above scripture further points out that promise spoke of Christs resurrection where God did in fact "raise up" Christ just as promised. :scratch:
  3. Archaggelos

    Archaggelos New Member

    I have not read all of these posts and probably never will. I would like to recommend reading what Dr. N.T. Wright has to say on these subjects. I attended a C.S. Lewis Institute conference where he spoke on "Resurrection and Life After Death." His points challenged and enlightened me.

    For instance:

    He was critical of 'rapture theology' by pointing out the language in Philippians referring to the parousia as a visit from a visiting king. It is the king visiting his colony, not the colony going to live with the king. Philippi was a Roman colony settled by Roman soldiers. They were not to come back to Rome (as rapture theology states.) The king would come and visit them from Rome and the people would meet him outside of town to escort him into town. Wright claims that the rapture is the believers meeting their King in the air to escort Him in His victorious visitation/return. Only in this case, the King is bringing the Kingdom with Him.

    Another interesting point that I did not know was the theology behind the Jewish belief in resurrection. According to Dr. Wright, they believed that God is the good Creator and God is just. He would have to bring back the dead Jews to share in the time when God puts His creation right.

    These are paraphrased, but check out his works for yourself. I heard him speak, so I cannot recommend the books right now. I will come back and edit this post with a few titles.

    In His grace,
  4. GW

    GW Veteran


    I haven't read N.T. Wright yet, but I just bought three of his books because of quotes I had seen such as the following:

    (On the "End of the World")
    "Within the mainline Jewish writings of this period, covering a wide range of styles, genres, political persuasions and theological perspectives, there is virtually no evidence that Jews were expecting the end of the space-time universe. There is abundant evidence that they knew a good metaphor when they saw one, and used cosmic imagery to bring out the full theological significance of cataclysmic socio-political events. There is almost nothing to suggest that they followed the Stoics into the belief that the world itself would come to an end; and there is almost everything to suggest that they did not." (NTPG 333)

    "To the list of sources there in favour of the position advanced should be added Horslet 1987, 138f., 337; and (cited by Horsley) Wilder 1959. Among many passages which could be cited, the three which Allison 1985, 89 quotes, against the drift of his own argument (on which see above, 209 n. 38, and the next note, below), will do for a start: Ps. - Philo 11.3-5; 4 Ezra 3.18-19; and bZeb. 116a." (Jesus and the Victory of God, p. 321f.)

    "If Jesus and the early church used the relevant language in the same way as their contemporiries, it is highly unlikely that they would have been referring to the actual end of the world, and highly likely that they would have been referring to events within space-time history which they interpreted as the coming of the kingdom. It will not do to dismiss this reading of 'apocalyptic' language as 'merely metaphorical'. Metaphors have teeth; the complex metaphors available to first-century Jews had particularly sharp ones." (Jesus and the Victory of God, p. 321)

    AND ALSO...

    Referring to the 13th chapter of Mark and the parallel Gospel accounts in Matthew and Luke, where Jesus prophesies the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, Wright observes (pp. 343-344): "One of the main reasons, I suppose, why the obvious way of reading the chapter has been ignored for so long must be the fact that in a good deal of Christian theology the fall of Jerusalem has had no theological significance. This has meant not only that Mark 13 is found puzzling, but also that all the references to the same event elsewhere in the gospels -- even where it stares one in the face, as in Luke 13:1-5 -- have been read as general warnings of hellfire in an afterlife, rather than the literal and physical divine-judgment-through-Roman-judgment that we have seen to be characteristic of Jesus' story." Jesus and the Victory of God" (Fortress Press, 1996).

    Wright goes on to note that today's scholars, preachers, and laymen tend to read Jesus' apocalyptic discourse on the Mount of Olives, where he makes his fall-of-Jerusalem prophecy (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) as an account of the end of the space-time universe and of Jesus' downward travel to earth in a cloud. But Wright rejects this view as anachronistic -- that is, as totally out of sync with the time and place of Jesus' 1st-century ministry. Wright points out (pp. 345-346): "We must...stress again: as far as the disciples, good first-century Jews as they were, were concerned, there was no reason whatever for them to be thinking about the end of the space-time universe. There was no reason, either in their own background or in a single thing that Jesus had said up to them at that point, for it even to occur to them that the true story of the world, or of Israel, or of Jesus himself, might include either the end of the space-time universe, or Jesus or anyone else floating down to earth on a cloud."
  5. Aman Amam it sounds like Mr Wright knows how to read the Bible without seeing it through the traditions of men. Paul's rapture was never meant to be taken literaly. Paul was assuring the living that they would have no loss of rights or privileges in the kingdom because in that day (the coming of Christ in his eternal kingdom) the dead and the living would inherit the kingdom together.

    Paul was using Accommodative language which was to be under stood that the living would inherit all the rights of the kingdom without going through "death." This was the glorious reunion of Christ and his saints as promised in John 14:1-3 and Matt. 24:31. As Mr Wright so rightly pointed out. The believers were to meeting their King in the air to escort Him as he bring the Kingdom with Him.

    Air is a symbol of the heavenly or spiritual realm wherein the government of God is exercised. Concerning Satan, (before he was cast out) it was said that he was the prince of the power of the air. (Eph. 2.2; 6:11). But Christ conquered Satan and cleansed the "air" and restored man to his rightful dominion of life and righteousness, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    The gatering or rapture in the air is no more literal then "spiritual Israel" gatering or being raptured to a "spiritual mountain" called Mount Zion the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem to an innumerable company of angels. (Hebrews 12:18-23) Paul uses this type of Accommodative language all over the Bible Eph. 2:4-7;Heb.10:19-21 and ever Jew understood what Paul meant.
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