The Mystery of The False Prophet.

[MithrandirOlorin888]

Preterist interpertations are annoying overall. But my fellow Futurists make themselves look idiot when they quote anything of Daniel 11 prior to 36 as end times, that was all clearly fulfilled in the Hellenistic era. 1 specific detail from there, the "Abomination of Deoslation" wil be repeated, but the context surrounding it will be different.

 

[Douggg]

Preterist interpertations are annoying overall. But my fellow Futurists make themselves look idiot when they quote anything of Daniel 11 prior to 36 as end times, that was all clearly fulfilled in the Hellenistic era. 1 specific detail from there, the "Abomination of Deoslation" wil be repeated, but the context surrounding it will be different.

I agree that Daniel 11 doesn't begin into the end times until verse 36. And more specific, verse 36 is when there are 42 months left before Jesus returns because the description of the king in verse 36 is that he is claiming to be God speaking against God - matching the description of the first beast in Revelation 13 doing the same with 42 months left, the time stamp of that chapter.

And I agree that the Abomination of Desolation in Daniel 11 is the type of transgression that will be repeated in the end times.


Doug

 

[coraline]

Well, they certainly had that mind set that they were living in the last days.

But with 20/20 hindsight, 2000 years later, we know that they were not. So why was it that they should have known that they weren't?

We have to start with that understanding any of the bible has to come from God opening our understanding.

After the crucifixion, Jesus appeared to the the disciples and he opened the understanding of the scriptures regarding him and salvation to them. With that understanding they went out and preached the gospel of salvation to the world. That's in Luke 24:44-48.

However, concerning the events surrounding his return in the scriptures, which would include the old testament end times prophecies - it was not for them to know that time. That's in Acts 1 his last words to them as he ascended to heaven.


So in the New Testament, in the letters by the apostles we really don't get a detailed account of how all the end time prophecies of the old testament and those in the four gospels fit together. Like we do about Jesus being the Savior from our sins and the gospel of Salvation. The understanding of the end times was sealed back then, not until our day when travel and education is vastly increased (Daniel 12).

The apostles lived with the hope of Jesus returning in their day, but they didn't know for sure. And example of that hope, Peter took Psalms 2, which is not about his day, but the end times, and applied it to the religious leaders of his day. In Acts 4.

The part in blue is from Pslams 2. But Pslams 2 is about the armies of the world gathering at Armageddon to try and stop Jesus at his return in Revelation 16. But Revelation hadn't been given at the time of Acts4, and the understanding was closed to Peter. So he applied Pslams 2 to the religious leaders of his day.


Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.


Here is what Pslams 2 says and what Revelation 16 says. It is clearly not talking about the religious leaders back in Peter's day.







coraline, I used that example with Peter to show that the apostles' hearts were in the right place, and they were hoping for Jesus to return in their day; so they lived in that expectation. They considered that they were living in the last days. And it comes out in some of the statements they made in their letters. But the end times, putting everything together was not made understood to them - like in our day.


Doug

Well, I think the apostles & disciples didn't believe in a physical return of the Lord.

They were Hebrews & knew OT symbolism well.

In Mt.24:3, they asked the Lord "what will be the "sign" of Your coming?" etc.

They were told to "watch" & keep the commandments & they wouldn't have to worry about a "thief in the night" & judgment.

That's my opinion from what is written.

 

[Douggg]

Well, I think the apostles & disciples didn't believe in a physical return of the Lord.

They were Hebrews & knew OT symbolism well.

In Mt.24:3, they asked the Lord "what will be the "sign" of Your coming?" etc.

They were told to "watch" & keep the commandments & they wouldn't have to worry about a "thief in the night" & judgment.

That's my opinion from what is written.

Hi coraline,

Did the disciples in Acts see Jesus leave physically?

Acts1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[toLiJC]

The False Prophet is a key figure in The Book of Revelation, it's number three villain. "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet." Forming a sort of counterfeit Trinity. He's first clearly introduced as the "beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." After Chapter 13 this figure is called The False Prophet.....

the "(second) beast" is a devilish spirit known as the "vibration aum" in yoga and the hinduism, one of the three main spirits of the darkness' phenomenon (called) "devil", because there are three such spirits:

- the "dragon" known as "sat" in the hinduism and "satan"/"devil" in the Bible

- the "(first) beast" known as "cit" in the hinduism
and
- the "(other) beast" known as "ananda" in the hinduism and "false prophet" in the biblical book "Revelation"

exactly they the three are the so-called "sat-cit-ananda" in the hinduism - these are three main inanimate spirits/appearances/phenomena of the "darkness" which is the negative part of the uncaused divine, so the main two phenomena of the "darkness" are the "devil"(which is the spirit of the deception) and the "death"(which is the spirit of the vitiation), and as the phenomenon "devil" consists of three main aspects(sat, cit and ananda), so the phenomenon "death" also consists of two main spirits - "death" and "hell" - all such spirits are primordial and inanimate appearances/phenomena of the "darkness", besides there may be many more primordial and inanimate spirits of the "darkness" which are more inferior than the shown five above and they are called "devils"/"evil spirits" in the Bible

the "dragon"/"serpent" is the main appearance of the "darkness" and the main spirit of the deception which misled eve and adam to become occultists(transcendental yogis) - it draws up to 33.3% of the Heavenly aspects - Rev 12:3-4

the "(first) beast" is the gracious spirit of the "darkness" and the second phenomenon of the deception whose principal seat is in the so-called "sea" i.e. the (world of the) occult - it induces up to 33.3% of the Heavenly grace - Rev 13:1-2

the "(second) beast" is the beneficial spirit of the "darkness" and the third phenomenon of the deception whose principal seat is in the "earth" - it is a vibratory spirit which carries the induced grace of the first beast pumping up to 33.3% of the Heavenly benediction in the form of vibrations - Rev 13:11-13

there are 7 and even 10 and 12 subordinate devilish spirits of sat-cit-ananda called "chakras" in yoga and the hindusim - Rev 12:3, 13:1, 13:11 and 17:9-12

the "harlot" in Rev 17 is the so-called devilish spirit "kundalini" on which the process of occultism/yoga is based - it (tries to) reverse(s) the perception(s)/notion(s) of the occultists (and other humans) upside down

the "death" is the main spirit of the vitiation, while the "hell" is the second suchlike/therein - those phenomena are the spirits of the degradations, the diseases, the harms, and the afflictions - Rev 6:8

Blessings

 

[coraline]

Hi coraline,

Did the disciples in Acts see Jesus leave physically?

Acts1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The same manner is "the same manner as He entered heaven." He was received to heaven in a "CLOUD."
The apostles knew the OT language of the prophets. God had many "cloud comings" in scripture.

And He should return the same way, AND "every one from the "tribes of the "earth" would mourn.

Rev.1:7:
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.




You see Doug, I am a full preterist- So I must zip it here & rest my case in our discussion.


I'll just submit an answer for the "false prophet" It was the Jewish temple leadership in the 1st century.

 

[Time Watcher]

To the one who thinks that the futurist is an idiot:

Daniel 11:36-45 is the little horn of Daniel's other visions for the time appointed .... future from now

I will test your idea that the same is about Antiochus IV and see what you do

This king of the north never conquered Egypt

This king died while fighting a war in Persia

Now, you show me why you think that Daniel 11:36-45 is a fulfilled prophecy

Also

I see both you and Doug telling that Matthew 24 and Luke 21-36 are not the same view

Not true .... both are about the time of the end still pending today in every detail

Your mistake .... the Lord is speaking to Israelites about their nation's future [acts 1:6]

He just does not tell them the time [dating of the beginning of the coming 70th week .... the time of "Jacob's trouble"]

..... and He has not revealed it to anyone

70 AD is not even in His projection, or is it in any of the visions of His Bible prophets .... you cannot find it

Ge this truth and you will be able to deal with the preterist and the post-tribulation thinker's ruse

If you don't .... you never will, and you will create nothing but confusion

Get it right and clean up your teaching

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

No, I believe Daniel 11:36-45 are the first half of the Tribulation, it ends setting the stage for the Antichrist counterfeit death and resurrection, Daniel 12:1 directly corresponds to Revelation 12:7. During his 42 month reign The Beast rules the whole Earth, there are no wars with other earthly nations anymore, just awaiting Armageddon. The war the start in Daniel 11:40 I believe is the one the Red Horsemen refers to.

Futurists absolutely do believe 70 A.D. is in Bible Prophecy, I believe all of Israel history was foretold. Daniel 9 alludes to it, and Luke 21 is chiefly focused on that.

 

[Choose Wisely]

But my fellow Futurists make themselves look idiot when they quote anything of Daniel 11 prior to 36 as end times, that was all clearly fulfilled in the Hellenistic era. 1 specific detail from there, the "Abomination of Deoslation" wil be repeated, but the context surrounding it will be different.

Daniel 11
6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together;

So you say verse 36 and the Bible says verse 6. No offense but I have to go with the Bible.

You have quite a problem, in that verse 37 and beyond is clearly a continuation of verse 36 and other verses prior.

You should re-evaluate.

 

[tranquil]

Sorry to stay on a tangent, OP, but the last page was really obnoxious. There is a "pre-trib rapture", but the problem is not with proving a specific time-frame, the problem is in people's misunderstanding of what "the rapture" is.

Here is but one example, out of many verses, of "the rapture".

Rev. 12

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Is she flying to heaven? No, she is flying to the wilderness. That's the "rapture". So, no, Dougg, there can not be "an anytime rapture", because people are not going to flee to the wilderness for no reason whatsoever. But the fleeing is the pre-trib rapture, before the abomination is placed.

Babylon is about to take over "Jerusalem", the armies come to place the abomination of desolation. (One external manifestation of this could very well be a swine flu vaccination drive given by the UN/ Red Cross. A new type of vaccine, a DNA vaccine, could be a Satanic variant on the Antiochus pig sacrifice in the temple - the "temple" now being the bodies of Christians infused with pig DNA derived vaccines.)

The faithful flee just before the abomination is placed.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

[This is the "rapture" - fleeing from Babylon/ Jerusalem / wherever there are Christians.]

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

[**The "pregnant" are people who worship idols. The good people have left, the bad stay to receive the mark of the beast. See Hosea 2 below]

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Micah 7

What misery is mine!
I am like one who gathers summer fruit
at the gleaning of the vineyard;
there is no cluster of grapes to eat,
none of the early figs that I crave.
2 The faithful have been swept from the land;
not one upright person remains.

[The faithful have left because they see the abomination is about to be placed.]

Everyone lies in wait to shed blood;
they hunt each other with nets.
3 Both hands are skilled in doing evil;
the ruler demands gifts,
the judge accepts bribes,
the powerful dictate what they desire—
they all conspire together.
4 The best of them is like a brier,
the most upright worse than a thorn hedge.
The day God visits you has come,
the day your watchmen sound the alarm.
Now is the time of your confusion.
5 Do not trust a neighbor;
put no confidence in a friend.
Even with the woman who lies in your embrace
guard the words of your lips.
6 For a son dishonors his father,
a daughter rises up against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies are the members of his own household. 7 But as for me, I watch in hope for the Lord,
I wait for God my Savior;
my God will hear me.

Hosea 2

3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.
4 And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms.
5 For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink.

[**This is why famine, the 3rd Horseman, aka the false prophet, says not to harm the oil and wine in Rev. 6. The "oil and wine" are provided to the harlot via the mark of the beast who provides her with her necessities/ a day's wages for a day's work/ starvation wages.



Here, I go into how this "children of whoredom" relates to God "cutting off" the next generation of evil people and Wormwood/ Trumpet 3 (all numbers relate to each other in Revelation)

http://prophecyandritual.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-near-future-part-2.html

​

6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths.
7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.
8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.

transition to a better translation

7 She shall pursue her lovers
but not overtake them,
and she shall seek them
but shall not find them.
Then she shall say,
‘I will go and return to my first husband,
for it was better for me then than now.’
8 And she did not know
that it was I who gave her
the grain, the wine, and the oil,
and who lavished on her silver and gold,
which they used for Baal.
9 Therefore I will take back
my grain in its time,
and my wine in its season,
and I will take away my wool and my flax,
which were to cover her nakedness.
10 Now I will uncover her lewdness
in the sight of her lovers,
and no one shall rescue her out of my hand.
11 And I will put an end to all her mirth,
her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths,
and all her appointed feasts.
12 And I will lay waste her vines and her fig trees,
of which she said,
‘These are my wages,
which my lovers have given me.’
I will make them a forest,
and the beasts of the field shall devour them.
13 And I will punish her for the feast days of the Baals
when she burned offerings to them
and adorned herself with her ring and jewelry,
and went after her lovers
and forgot me, declares the Lord. 14 “Therefore, behold, I will allure her,
and bring her into the wilderness,
and speak tenderly to her.
15 And there I will give her her vineyards
and make the Valley of Achor[e] a door of hope.
And there she shall answer as in the days of her youth,
as at the time when she came out of the land of Egypt.

16 “And in that day, declares the Lord, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ 17 For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more. 18 And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish[f] the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety. 19 And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy. 20 I will betroth you to me in faithfulness. And you shall know the Lord.

 

[Time Watcher]

"No, I believe Daniel 11:36-45 are the first half of the Tribulation, it ends setting the stage for the Antichrist counterfeit death and resurrection, Daniel 12:1 directly corresponds to Revelation 12:7. During his 42 month reign The Beast rules the whole Earth, there are no wars with other earthly nations anymore, just awaiting Armageddon. The war the start in Daniel 11:40 I believe is the one the Red Horsemen refers to."

Futurists absolutely do believe 70 A.D. is in Bible Prophecy, I believe all of Israel history was foretold. Daniel 9 alludes to it, and Luke 21 is chiefly focused on that."



Well the futurists that you know are wrong about 70 AD .... this event is not in the visions of the Bible prophets and one cannot find it there .... the prophets only see the time of the end .... which was obviously not 70AD

Just because the futurists say so does not make what they think true

And you said that Daniel 11:36-45 has already past .... now you change?

Question for you since you now split the vision

How long do you think it will take for Satan's beast in the little horn to consolidate his Middle Eastern holdings before he rules for 1260 days [42 months, 3.5 prophetic years]?

Do you really think that he will just pop up and begin to rule?

There are many things he will do during the first 1260 days of the 70th week decreed which will be necessary to reach his ambition to rule .... do you know what he will have to accomplish? [all of this is in the visions of the prophets and Revelation scheduled for the first 1260]

 

[Time Watcher]

"Is she flying to heaven? No, she is flying to the wilderness. That's the "rapture"


Really?

the "fleeing is the rapture"?

Tell me about Zechariah 14:4-5 and Matthew 24:15-16

Are you saying this is the "rapture"

It sounds to me like you are a proponent of the many membered "manchild' ruse of the MSOG movements who corrupt Revelation 12

True?

 

[Time Watcher]

I am Time Watcher and you have posted a quote from another

The beast will not rule the whole earth

His kingdom will be centered in the Middle East

What he will do is destroy other nations who will oppose him [Revelation 17:16-18;] Daniel 11:44]

He will cause a blade runner society of destruction in many nations outside of the Middle East, but he will not rule over them

 

[coraline]

"Is she flying to heaven? No, she is flying to the wilderness. That's the "rapture"


Really?

the "fleeing is the rapture"?

Tell me about Zechariah 14:4-5 and Matthew 24:15-16

Are you saying this is the "rapture"

It sounds to me like you are a proponent of the many membered "manchild' ruse of the MSOG movements who corrupt Revelation 12

True?

Rev.12 is not the rapture of the church. It may be the "rapture" of Christ being caught up to God at His ascension, but wings of an eagle to the woman clearly means she was able to fly away from the dragon. (see Isa.40:31 for this meaning)

But the elect's "rapture" is seen here:
Matthew 24:
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Also seen in 1Thess.4:16-18 :
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Without a doubt, the gathering together happens in the spiritual realm.

 

[Time Watcher]

"Sorry about that. I don't know how I did it. It won't be the last mistake I make either"


Not to worry

Keep studying .... the Lord will lead you into all truth if you are diligent and your motive is pure

Do not be misled by those who have not done this and as a result have cause much confusion in the professing "church"

.... the damage is overwhelming today and there is little left of correct rendering of the prophetic scriptures .... and His gospel has been turned into metaphorical mush

 

[Time Watcher]

"Without a doubt, the gathering together happens in the spiritual realm"


Well I doubt your conclusion hands down

 

[Douggg]

I see both you and Doug telling that Matthew 24 and Luke 21-36 are not the same view

You misread what I wrote. The conversations, the talks, took place at different locations. Luke 21 within the temple complex. Matthew 24 on the Mt. of Olive. The content of what Jesus talked about in both chapters is basically the same.

Doug

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

Daniel 11
6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together;

So you say verse 36 and the Bible says verse 6. No offense but I have to go with the Bible.

You have quite a problem, in that verse 37 and beyond is clearly a continuation of verse 36 and other verses prior.

You should re-evaluate.

The "end of years' is not the same as the time of the end. Daniel 11 up till verse 35 is a detailed description of Hellenistic history, so accurate that even Bible bashers can't deny it, so they have to insist Daniel was written latter, but those arguments fall apart.

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

Do I did not say Daniel 11:36-45 was past, I said it's NOT referring to Syria, Syria attack shim.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The "end of years' is not the same as the time of the end. Daniel 11 up till verse 35 is a detailed description of Hellenistic history, so accurate that even Bible bashers can't deny it, so they have to insist Daniel was written latter, but those arguments fall apart.

Yes, this is a common error (that Daniel 11:6-35 was fulfilled before Christ) made by most Bible scholars. And yet, we know that at some point Daniel 11 talks about end times. So when does this time shift occur. Verse 6....and in the end of years. Now you can go on believing what ever you want, but a wise man would consider what the Bible says.

BTW, there are other examples where the consensus is wrong. Take for instance Jeremiah 50 and 51. Most Bible scholars believe this prophecy was also fulfilled before the time of Christ.........and yet they slept when partial fulfillment was occurring in Gulf War 1 and Gulf War 2. You might study Jer 50 and 51. When you realize that these were not fulfilled thousands of years ago like most think, you might be able to tackle Daniel 11.