The Mystery of Pauls Writings

[Dkh587]

Do you read the Torah in the original Paleo-Hebrew and understand
every figure of speech that they used in Moses' day? Do you have
corners on your head? The bible says you do. So does your clothing.

We have sunrise and sunset today, so does that mean the sun is
rotating around the earth? It must be.

In the Paleo-Hebrew, the earth is described as flat and motionless with a revolving solar system above it.

What's amazing is that you can walk outside and verify this for yourself. You can watch the sun, moon and stars move above your head. There is absolutely no evidence of a globe/ball/spherical earth. The horizon is always flat and it never curves no matter how high you go.

There is also no evidence that the earth is moving or spinning. When the earth moves, you feel it. We call it an earthquake.

Do you reject the flat, motionless earth, with a dome above it, that was written about in Paleo-Hebrew? If so, why?

 

[pat34lee]

In the Paleo-Hebrew, the earth is described as flat and motionless with a revolving solar system above it.

Do you reject the flat, motionless earth, with a dome above it, that was written about in Paleo-Hebrew? If so, why?

As I said, the Torah also says you have corners on your head,
and on your garments. Not to mention the corners of the earth.

Does the sun move across the sky, or does the earth revolve on
it's own axis? Perspective, frame of reference or figure of speech.
Which is correct?

 

[Hoshiyya]

In the Paleo-Hebrew, the earth is described as flat and motionless with a revolving solar system above it.

What's amazing is that you can walk outside and verify this for yourself. You can watch the sun, moon and stars move above your head. There is absolutely no evidence of a globe/ball/spherical earth. The horizon is always flat and it never curves no matter how high you go.

There is also no evidence that the earth is moving or spinning. When the earth moves, you feel it. We call it an earthquake.

Do you reject the flat, motionless earth, with a dome above it, that was written about in Paleo-Hebrew? If so, why?

Paleo-Hebrew is normally used to denote a script, not a language, so I believe it would be more correct to say "ancient Hebrew" than Paleo-Hebrew, if you are referring to a language.

I think if we were extremely small organisms living on a baseball, the horizon would appear flat to us as well, despite the baseball being round.

However it appears to me cosmology is not a major concern in the written Torah.

 

[Steve Petersen]

In the Paleo-Hebrew, the earth is described as flat and motionless with a revolving solar system above it.

What exactly do you mean by 'paleo-Hebrew?'

 

[visionary]

Matter tends to form into drops or globs, and the earth, in forming did the same. The gradual disappearance of ships over the horizon with the tops of the sails disappearing last indicate curvature.

 

[BukiRob]

This book, at least in part, has survived. I have acquired a copy of all that remains of it as part of a complete collection of the English translations of the DSS. I am really amped to read it.

This should never become a gnostic issue, regardless, since knowing more doesn't make us better, the goal has never been to know more, that is the false goal post that the enemy has placed in our path since eden, if a book is mentioned in or appears to be part of scripture, it's excellent to read it. If anything, when read exactly as a child would read it (prima facea) it appears to contradict the torah in any way, at all, and this is a meaning issue and not a translation issue, then it should be binned. Any argument based on misunderstanding and needing to understand this and that and the other and all this stuff related to mysteries, secret or elusive knowledge, limited understandings etc makes it all gnostic, and gnosticism is the root of the original false/mystery religions (torah-less religions came later, early false religions were based on gnostic variations of torah, often teaching that the serpent was the good god that imparted knowledge in violation of the slave driver god, and that the fallen angels were his sons and our gods that he set over us to aid us in our learning, the book of Enoch is very instrumental in refuting this rubbish for those who carry on these false teachings today). A lot of "messianic" defence of their positions tend to be based on a form of gnosticism, the mystery of Paul's teachings as a thread in a messianic section of a christian forum that claims that 99% of people misunderstand Paul is definitely a pinnacle of this if I'm correct on this matter, but what would I know? I'm only a Jew who hangs on the simple words of the messiah himself

I think scripture makes it fairly clear that Paul and the lack of understanding of Paul's writings have been an ongoing issue since about 40 AD.
2 Peter expressly warns about Paul's writings being difficult to understand. In acts James tells Paul that there were many Jews who BELIEVED in Messiah that were "zealous" for the Torah who had heard that Paul was teaching against Torah and to PROVE this assertion false, Paul was to take the vow....

Anyone suggesting that believers today, 2,000 years removed from Paul have Paul's teachings "figured out" and teach against the Torah and commandments is making the same mistake Paul was accused of in the Temple

 

[BukiRob]

In the Paleo-Hebrew, the earth is described as flat and motionless with a revolving solar system above it.

What's amazing is that you can walk outside and verify this for yourself. You can watch the sun, moon and stars move above your head. There is absolutely no evidence of a globe/ball/spherical earth. The horizon is always flat and it never curves no matter how high you go.

There is also no evidence that the earth is moving or spinning. When the earth moves, you feel it. We call it an earthquake.

Do you reject the flat, motionless earth, with a dome above it, that was written about in Paleo-Hebrew? If so, why?

Seriously? Mathematics proves the earth is round. Get in a plane at 30,000 feet and then say the earth isn't round.... you can SEE the earths curvature from there.

I guess you believe man has not been in space or flown to the moon.... geesh come on man....

 

[Steve Petersen]

I think scripture makes it fairly clear that Paul and the lack of understanding of Paul's writings have been an ongoing issue since about 40 AD.
2 Peter expressly warns about Paul's writings being difficult to understand. In acts James tells Paul that there were many Jews who BELIEVED in Messiah that were "zealous" for the Torah who had heard that Paul was teaching against Torah and to PROVE this assertion false, Paul was to take the vow....

Anyone suggesting that believers today, 2,000 years removed from Paul have Paul's teachings "figured out" and teach against the Torah and commandments is making the same mistake Paul was accused of in the Temple

The scholarly consensus is the 2 Peter was not written by Peter but someone later in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Petrine_epistles#Clues_in_support_of_pseudepigraphy

 

[BukiRob]

The scholarly consensus is the 2 Peter was not written by Peter but someone later in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Petrine_epistles#Clues_in_support_of_pseudepigraphy

and this rejects that thesis.....

https://bible.org/article/authorship-second-peter

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

2 Peter wasn't written by Peter,

IF anything was written by Peter about Paul, it was not written in Paul's favour:

The whole point isn't to understand Paul, it is to listen to Torah, the prophets and Messiah, and before even reading Paul's CLEARLY anti-Torah-but-gnostically-interpretable letters, the warnings are there. Read em like a five year old and not like someone who believes that they have a superior intellect and learning to everyone who disagrees with your own persona;l interpretation, and you'll see... You'll see...

The letters of Paul ARE supposed to be kept in the book, they have a purpose, mentioned in Deuteronomy (the Lord God, your God, is testing you) and Matthew (the wheat shall be separated from the tares). The letters of Paul are NOT to be confused with scripture, they are not the words of Yeshua. They are not the words of the Creator. They are the words of Paul and Paul alone, even Paul tells you this, yet many insist in calling Paul's words the words of "christ" or "God". Using Paul's letters alone can prove otherwise, let alone using actual scripture.

 

[ScottA]

The following posts were edited out from the Messianic Affiliation thread in order to keep that thread On Topic.

These posts are speaking of the NT books and how they relate to our beliefs. Please remember the SOP rules when posting in this thread.

and Please try and keep this thread OT.

Thanks!

The mystery with Paul, is the introduction of the Holy Spirit, and the transition from the almost exclusively spoken and written word, to the writing of the word spiritually upon our hearts. Where there is no contradiction between the spoken and written word, and the word through the Holy Spirit...there is indeed a conflict and contradiction between the process of receiving his writings in spirit, and simply reading them.

God is the same during both dispensations, but people are not. The first man Adam and the children of his lineage are dead, but the Spirit is alive and is risen. That was then, this is now.

 

[Lulav]

I will state unequivocally that I trust the Creator of all things, including the earth, the sun, moon, planets and all that is on and in the earth to know more about it than any man, scientist or not.

Just because the language is interpretive on our account does not mean that we have the right interpretation. If so then we have placed ourselves above the Divine Creator.

The bible warns of all kinds of deceptions and lies and we have to choose, do we believe what G-d has told us, or do we put faith in what man interprets?

 

[Lulav]

I have to ask..
Are all the planets, suns, stars, moons also flat?
Has anyone been to the edge of the earth?
How do planes and ships circle the earth?

That's interesting to ask, on one of the videos I watched it talked about flights. How you couldn't get to certain places without stop overs. Places that on a 'globe' would seem doable by the planes needs for fuel to be a non-stop, but no flights could be found. When the earth was looked at from the flat perspective you could see that the distance was a lot greater, therefore the need for the stop over for refueling was necessary.

 

[Lulav]

Matter tends to form into drops or globs, and the earth, in forming did the same. The gradual disappearance of ships over the horizon with the tops of the sails disappearing last indicate curvature.

Yes! I was watching a documentary on bubbles of all things the other day. It is interesting to say the least how something as simple as a bubble is such a big thing when seen from the prospective of movement, gravity, pressure etc.

I remember them showing a water drop falling into a still water surface, first it pushes down on the surface as a whole, pushing up the sides of the surface, the bottom being wider than the top.

It got me to thinking that this model below may not be too far off. Not really 'flat' like a plain, but more in tune with what is described in the creation story of Gen 1 and 2.
If you'll notice there is a concave and convex part thus could explain the 'disappearing over the horizon'

That is from the 1800's
It would not support the idea of flat meaning something like this:

Now look at this one.

That is from Rob Skiva's rendition. After he did this computer generated model someone sent him that photo of a foot stool. He was amazed at the similarity.

What if the 'curvature of the earth' we perceive is not the earth being curved as it is the result of the dome?

 

[Lulav]

That dome view of Skiva's is much more believable as well as pictoral of the Genesis account than one I remember reading about from the Creation Dr Baugh years ago.

I don't think he was wrong in so much that he used the Hebrew to understand what it looked like but he was placing that understanding on a man made taught model of the earth as being a globe.

Instead the canopy would be like that of a dome like in the last post.

I'm starting to think about all the implications this has on our understanding of the Bible like Dr. Baugh basing his science on this fallacy?

How much then of the bible is misunderstood?

Up until Copernicus and Galileo it was thought that the earth was flat.

Let's look at some dates

I think I'll start another thread on this as it is already derailed, but we can still explore the testings in the bible in this one.

 

[daq]

2 Peter wasn't written by Peter,

IF anything was written by Peter about Paul, it was not written in Paul's favour:

The whole point isn't to understand Paul, it is to listen to Torah, the prophets and Messiah, and before even reading Paul's CLEARLY anti-Torah-but-gnostically-interpretable letters, the warnings are there. Read em like a five year old and not like someone who believes that they have a superior intellect and learning to everyone who disagrees with your own persona;l interpretation, and you'll see... You'll see...

The letters of Paul ARE supposed to be kept in the book, they have a purpose, mentioned in Deuteronomy (the Lord God, your God, is testing you) and Matthew (the wheat shall be separated from the tares). The letters of Paul are NOT to be confused with scripture, they are not the words of Yeshua. They are not the words of the Creator. They are the words of Paul and Paul alone, even Paul tells you this, yet many insist in calling Paul's words the words of "christ" or "God". Using Paul's letters alone can prove otherwise, let alone using actual scripture.

If the author of the Clementine homilies actually knew Peter he would have known and understood the difference between Petros and Kephas. Petros never rebuked anyone outside of himself before the whole group but his son in the kingdom indeed rebuked his father the devil, (for the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household). Not many today can say the same because not many actually carry out the Testimony of Yeshua and are willing to look into the mirror and say to the mountain staring back at them, "Get thee behind me, Satan: you are an offense to me, for you savor not the things that be of Elohim but those that be of men." As clearly shown Peter learned this saying the hard way but, unfortunately, that is generally the only way any of us truly deeply learn great things. Nothing is as simple as what it may seem on the surface because men eventually do come to know Messiah the Word, and are converted, and those overcoming receive new names having been written in the white light Urim stone of approval. I do not often argue Petros-Paulos against Kephas much anymore because I do not agree with either of the two main opposing sides, and therefore usually get torn apart in the middle, but there you have two of my forty-two sense for whatever that may or may not be worth.
.
.

 

[Extraneous]

People may be tested, to see if they will follow Gods instructions, but that doesn't mean Paul's writing are not also Gods instruction. Paul uses very symbolic language, and carnal Christians will take it it wrong, but spiritual Christians will not. Im not saying that if a person doesnt understand Pauls writings that they are immature, but im saying that if they use Pauls words to not follow Christ then they are carnal. Paul teaches the commands of Christ.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

Carnal Christian? Um...

Followers of the God of Israel and the messiah are israelites (by blood or sojourning).

Christians are followers of a later religion, Paul's religion.

Stepping it back - carnal. Of the flesh.
The entire torah is about the flesh, the physical, about actual real world problems and how to solve them.
During the time of the tanakh many of the pagan religions were spiritual, people solving problems by contacting spirits through meditation and thing drugs, people trying to reach enlightenment, all of that. Torah specifically opposes spiritualism.
There are three kinds of spirit mentioned in the tanakh - ruach hakodesh (translated Holy Spirit) - referred to as the breath of life, of the Creator's inspiration given to the prophets, the spirit of man - his essence rather than a ghost in the machine, what's in your core, your heart, nothing to do with a part of you that is supposed to live on in another plane after you die, and finally spirits that appear to be demonic that we are forbidden to communicate with, including the spirits of the dead (the dead sleep awaiting judgement, while their bodies rest, and according to apocryphal writings there are three chambers for the spirit of the dead to reside in - not accessible from earth or vice versa), meaning that any form or apparition that resembles the dead I'd a deception and attempts at communication is not permitted.

Torah deals with every physical and mental issue we could possibly encounter, ensuring the health and well-being of everyone who is part of a torah obedient community, and Yeshua supported this.

Paul introduces (or maybe his mate Luke, in Acts introduced?) the idea of the holy spirit as a being that possesses or "fills" one and guides them, much like a spirit guide of the pagan religions, and everything Paul (grandson of Cleopatra & Julias Caesar paternaly and the Herodians maternaly) teaches mirrors all of the spiritual religions of the middle east - Caesarion (Paul's father, referred to as both Barabbas and Barnabas in the new testament) is said to have travelled to druidic Albion (ancient Britain), India and the Middle East, and to have called himself Jesus (the manuscripts of Matthew and the NRSV translation show that Barabbas called himself Iesous/Jesus Barabbas - Jesus Son of Abba), and people believe that the historical Jesus travelled through these lands to learn Buddhism and eastern philosophy (since Paul's teachings, often mislabeled "Jesus teachings") are so eastern in nature, but it's more likely that Caesarion/Barabbas was a false messiah trying to cause the historically mighty israelites to rebel against Rome, leading him to end up on trial next to Yeshua and be chosen by the pharisees and the rebellion against Rome that lead to the fall of the temple was probably instigated by him in some way. As a bastard, Caesarion was a noble of two great powers and heir to none.
His son, Paulos of Tarsus took up the reigns where his father failed, his mother of the Jewish family that the Romans had permitted to rule, and who had cut off the head of John the Baptist (Herodian, my kinsmen!) meant that ONLY WHULE SPEAKING TO OTHODOX JEWS he could claim to be a jew a pharisee teachings (lies) dictated that Jewishness was inherited from the mother only (to the Jews I came as a jew, I myself not under the law) and they, as all Jews, rejected him and even wanted to stone him as Torah demands. He found that his spiritual teachings resonated with gentiles, and they all liked the idea of having the great blessings and interesting religion of Israel but they didn't want what they perceived to be a burden of all of the laws of torah so Paul mastered the art of dual-tongue writing, upon prima facie his teachings were immediately "the law is a curse, nailed to the cross, dead as a dodo, do not keep it, this new covenant is here, you choose what parts to keep and that equates to it being written in your heart, you eat what your conscience allows and according to how strong your faith is, and just believe that Jesus exists, be filled with the spirit, christ is the end of the law, don't worry about circumcision, in fact circumcision makes Christ profit you nothing, love your neighbour, that's the whole law!" But when in trial he's able to use his well-worded letters to defend himself in the same way that pro-paulers do today, which powers to have gotten him off of a few charges but slowly over time more and more groups (including ALL of Asia Minor) turned away from him, and his false religion would have died were it not for the Romans realising he was a threat like his father was, trying to gather a huge following of gentiles to lead, and so they made him a matyr and later used his teachings as the centre of their religion that replaced (or merged with) Mithraism.

In Acts Paul is seen to be an Egyptian terrorist at one point, and since Paul had Egyptian blood it's not hard to see why. He also is of Roman noble blood so he was a roman citizen from birth and spoke many languages, and he and his father were recognised as such, which is why when he and Barnabas are referred to by the names of Roman gods, the ones chosen are father and son. The reason for being assigned an assumed godhood appears to be the result of the use of Magic, something that Caesarion /Barnabas may have learned from the druids in Albion, and if I'm not mistaken, there's an instance of Paul using a magic apron (sounds like the mysticism of freemasonry with their symbolic aprons), all of which backs up this assertion, which, given the way all the pieces fit and to my knowledge there is no counterclaim or refutation, makes it a strong historical case against Paul by revealing a likely identity and motive.


As I say, in line with the rules of the forum, Paul's letters are purposely included in the Bible among scripture, to serve the purpose of separating those who love the word of our Creator and those who love being part of a spiritual feel good religion.
Paul's holy spirit is nothing like the ruach hakodesh in the tanakh, Paul slates what he calls "carnal" things, yet our creator directly gave us flesh, it's our greatest blessing, and never promised to replace our flesh hearts with spiritual ones, on the contrary, He promised to replaced our figuratively stoney hearts with ones of... Flesh! Carnal hearts!

Paul really is a divider, when you look at him objectively he's a crisp between being the Hitler and the Alistair Crowley of his day, in fact I can hold a page of Crowley and a page of Paul next to each other and many people wouldn't be able to distinguish between them, the perfect example being - "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will."
How's that any different to the law of love is the whole of the law, and teaching that conscience and strength of faith determine what is sinning (as Paul taught regarding meats and sacrifices to idols)? It's not - most of Paul reflects mist if Crowley when you replace "Thelma" with "Christ" and the like and focus on what is being taught...

Anyway, why are we wasting so much time on Paul, we should focus on scripture instead!

P.s any historical or any actual evidence to refute this theory on the identity of Paul is welcome, although I'm yet to find any and it all just fits into place.


Going back to the post above - you are right though, people using Paul to justify living contrary to Yeshua and the Creator can not possibly claim to be following either!

 

[Extraneous]

Carnal Christian? Um...

Followers of the God of Israel and the messiah are israelites (by blood or sojourning).

Christians are followers of a later religion, Paul's religion.

Stepping it back - carnal. Of the flesh.
The entire torah is about the flesh, the physical, about actual real world problems and how to solve them.
During the time of the tanakh many of the pagan religions were spiritual, people solving problems by contacting spirits through meditation and thing drugs, people trying to reach enlightenment, all of that. Torah specifically opposes spiritualism.
There are three kinds of spirit mentioned in the tanakh - ruach hakodesh (translated Holy Spirit) - referred to as the breath of life, of the Creator's inspiration given to the prophets, the spirit of man - his essence rather than a ghost in the machine, what's in your core, your heart, nothing to do with a part of you that is supposed to live on in another plane after you die, and finally spirits that appear to be demonic that we are forbidden to communicate with, including the spirits of the dead (the dead sleep awaiting judgement, while their bodies rest, and according to apocryphal writings there are three chambers for the spirit of the dead to reside in - not accessible from earth or vice versa), meaning that any form or apparition that resembles the dead I'd a deception and attempts at communication is not permitted.

Torah deals with every physical and mental issue we could possibly encounter, ensuring the health and well-being of everyone who is part of a torah obedient community, and Yeshua supported this.

Paul introduces (or maybe his mate Luke, in Acts introduced?) the idea of the holy spirit as a being that possesses or "fills" one and guides them, much like a spirit guide of the pagan religions, and everything Paul (grandson of Cleopatra & Julias Caesar paternaly and the Herodians maternaly) teaches mirrors all of the spiritual religions of the middle east - Caesarion (Paul's father, referred to as both Barabbas and Barnabas in the new testament) is said to have travelled to druidic Albion (ancient Britain), India and the Middle East, and to have called himself Jesus (the manuscripts of Matthew and the NRSV translation show that Barabbas called himself Iesous/Jesus Barabbas - Jesus Son of Abba), and people believe that the historical Jesus travelled through these lands to learn Buddhism and eastern philosophy (since Paul's teachings, often mislabeled "Jesus teachings") are so eastern in nature, but it's more likely that Caesarion/Barabbas was a false messiah trying to cause the historically mighty israelites to rebel against Rome, leading him to end up on trial next to Yeshua and be chosen by the pharisees and the rebellion against Rome that lead to the fall of the temple was probably instigated by him in some way. As a bastard, Caesarion was a noble of two great powers and heir to none.
His son, Paulos of Tarsus took up the reigns where his father failed, his mother of the Jewish family that the Romans had permitted to rule, and who had cut off the head of John the Baptist (Herodian, my kinsmen!) meant that ONLY WHULE SPEAKING TO OTHODOX JEWS he could claim to be a jew a pharisee teachings (lies) dictated that Jewishness was inherited from the mother only (to the Jews I came as a jew, I myself not under the law) and they, as all Jews, rejected him and even wanted to stone him as Torah demands. He found that his spiritual teachings resonated with gentiles, and they all liked the idea of having the great blessings and interesting religion of Israel but they didn't want what they perceived to be a burden of all of the laws of torah so Paul mastered the art of dual-tongue writing, upon prima facie his teachings were immediately "the law is a curse, nailed to the cross, dead as a dodo, do not keep it, this new covenant is here, you choose what parts to keep and that equates to it being written in your heart, you eat what your conscience allows and according to how strong your faith is, and just believe that Jesus exists, be filled with the spirit, christ is the end of the law, don't worry about circumcision, in fact circumcision makes Christ profit you nothing, love your neighbour, that's the whole law!" But when in trial he's able to use his well-worded letters to defend himself in the same way that pro-paulers do today, which powers to have gotten him off of a few charges but slowly over time more and more groups (including ALL of Asia Minor) turned away from him, and his false religion would have died were it not for the Romans realising he was a threat like his father was, trying to gather a huge following of gentiles to lead, and so they made him a matyr and later used his teachings as the centre of their religion that replaced (or merged with) Mithraism.

In Acts Paul is seen to be an Egyptian terrorist at one point, and since Paul had Egyptian blood it's not hard to see why. He also is of Roman noble blood so he was a roman citizen from birth and spoke many languages, and he and his father were recognised as such, which is why when he and Barnabas are referred to by the names of Roman gods, the ones chosen are father and son. The reason for being assigned an assumed godhood appears to be the result of the use of Magic, something that Caesarion /Barnabas may have learned from the druids in Albion, and if I'm not mistaken, there's an instance of Paul using a magic apron (sounds like the mysticism of freemasonry with their symbolic aprons), all of which backs up this assertion, which, given the way all the pieces fit and to my knowledge there is no counterclaim or refutation, makes it a strong historical case against Paul by revealing a likely identity and motive.


As I say, in line with the rules of the forum, Paul's letters are purposely included in the Bible among scripture, to serve the purpose of separating those who love the word of our Creator and those who love being part of a spiritual feel good religion.
Paul's holy spirit is nothing like the ruach hakodesh in the tanakh, Paul slates what he calls "carnal" things, yet our creator directly gave us flesh, it's our greatest blessing, and never promised to replace our flesh hearts with spiritual ones, on the contrary, He promised to replaced our figuratively stoney hearts with ones of... Flesh! Carnal hearts!

Paul really is a divider, when you look at him objectively he's a crisp between being the Hitler and the Alistair Crowley of his day, in fact I can hold a page of Crowley and a page of Paul next to each other and many people wouldn't be able to distinguish between them, the perfect example being - "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will."
How's that any different to the law of love is the whole of the law, and teaching that conscience and strength of faith determine what is sinning (as Paul taught regarding meats and sacrifices to idols)? It's not - most of Paul reflects mist if Crowley when you replace "Thelma" with "Christ" and the like and focus on what is being taught...

Anyway, why are we wasting so much time on Paul, we should focus on scripture instead!

P.s any historical or any actual evidence to refute this theory on the identity of Paul is welcome, although I'm yet to find any and it all just fits into place.


Going back to the post above - you are right though, people using Paul to justify living contrary to Yeshua and the Creator can not possibly claim to be following either!

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. He also said the flesh profits nothing, but the spirit gives life. Thank you for your comments.

 

[ErezY]

Ahhh Paul and the scriptures;

2 Peter 3
15 Consider the patience of our Lord to be salvation, just as our dear friend and brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him,
16 speaking of these things in all his letters. Some of his remarks are hard to understand, and people who are ignorant and whose faith is weak twist them to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
​

As far as Paul being akin to Alister Crowley, I think the witness shows it the other way around. Unless you think John was his apprentice.

Acts 13
4 After the Holy Spirit sent them on their way, they went down to Seleucia. From there they sailed to Cyprus.
5 In Salamis they proclaimed God's word in the Jewish synagogues. John was with them as their assistant.
6 They traveled throughout the island until they arrived at Paphos. There they found a certain man named Bar-Jesus, a Jew who was a false prophet and practiced sorcery.
7 He kept company with the governor of that province, an intelligent man named Sergius Paulus. The governor sent for Barnabas and Saul since he wanted to hear God's word.
8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for that's what people understood his name meant) opposed them, trying to steer the governor away from the faith.​

9 Empowered by the Holy Spirit, Saul, also known as Paul, glared at Bar-Jesus and
10 said, "You are a deceiver and trickster! You devil! You attack anything that is right! Will you never stop twisting the straight ways of the Lord into crooked paths?
11 Listen! The Lord's power is set against you. You will be blind for a while, unable even to see the daylight." At once, Bar-Jesus' eyes were darkened, and he began to grope about for someone to lead him around by the hand.
12 When the governor saw what had taken place, he came to believe, for he was astonished by the teaching about the Lord.
​

The holy spirit empowers demonic terrorists sent to divide the body of Messiah....ummm yea...

Acts 16
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the regions of Phrygia and Galatia because the Holy Spirit kept them from speaking the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they approached the province of Mysia, they tried to enter the province of Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus wouldn't let them.
8 Passing by Mysia, they went down to Troas instead.
9 A vision of a man from Macedonia came to Paul during the night. He stood urging Paul, "Come over to Macedonia and help us!"
10 Immediately after he saw the vision, we prepared to leave for the province of Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to proclaim the good news to them.​

So it's being implied that Paul was working as an adversary for God's purpose. The same was leveled at our Messiah.

Controversy over Beelzebul
14 Jesus was throwing out a demon that causes muteness. When the demon was gone, the man who couldn't speak began to talk. The crowds were amazed.
15 But some of them said, "He throws out demons with the authority of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons."
16 Others were testing him, seeking a sign from heaven.
17 Because Jesus knew what they were thinking, he said to them, “Every kingdom involved in civil war becomes a wasteland, and a house torn apart by divisions will collapse.
18 If Satan is at war with himself, how will his kingdom endure? I ask this because you say that I throw out demons by the authority of Beelzebul.
19 If I throw out demons by the authority of Beelzebul, then by whose authority do your followers throw them out? Therefore, they will be your judges.
20 But if I throw out demons by the power of God, then God's kingdom has already overtaken you.
21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his possessions are secure.
22 But as soon as a stronger one attacks and overpowers him, the stronger one takes away the armor he had trusted and divides the stolen goods.
23 "Whoever isn't with me is against me, and whoever doesn't gather with me, scatters.
24 When an unclean spirit leaves a person, it wanders through dry places looking for a place to rest. But it doesn't find any. Then it says, ‘I'll go back to the house I left.'
25 When it arrives, it finds the house cleaned up and decorated.
26 Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself. They go in and make their home there. That person is worse off at the end than at the beginning."​

Who does Messiah say is the real divider?

Conflicts brought by Jesus
49 "I came to cast fire upon the earth. How I wish that it was already ablaze!
50 I have a baptism I must experience. How I am distressed until it's completed!
51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, I have come instead to bring division.
52 From now on, a household of five will be divided—three against two and two against three.
53 Father will square off against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
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I think Paul learned well from the Messiah in regards to ones spiritual gift and ministry.

Spiritual gifts
1 Cor 12
1 Brothers and sisters, I don't want you to be ignorant about spiritual gifts.
2 You know that when you were Gentiles you were often misled by false gods that can't even speak.
3 So I want to make it clear to you that no one says, "Jesus is cursed!" when speaking by God's Spirit, and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different spiritual gifts but the same Spirit;
5 and there are different ministries and the same Lord;
6 and there are different activities but the same God who produces all of them in everyone.
7 A demonstration of the Spirit is given to each person for the common good.
8 A word of wisdom is given by the Spirit to one person, a word of knowledge to another according to the same Spirit,
9 faith to still another by the same Spirit, gifts of healing to another in the one Spirit,
10 performance of miracles to another, prophecy to another, the ability to tell spirits apart to another, different kinds of tongues to another, and the interpretation of the tongues to another.
11 All these things are produced by the one and same Spirit who gives what he wants to each person.
12 Christ is just like the human body—a body is a unit and has many parts; and all the parts of the body are one body, even though there are many.
13 We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body, whether Jew or Greek, or slave or free, and we all were given one Spirit to drink.
14 Certainly the body isn't one part but many.
15 If the foot says, "I'm not part of the body because I'm not a hand," does that mean it's not part of the body?
16 If the ear says, "I'm not part of the body because I'm not an eye," does that mean it's not part of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, what would happen to the hearing? And if the whole body were an ear, what would happen to the sense of smell?
18 But as it is, God has placed each one of the parts in the body just like he wanted.
19 If all were one and the same body part, what would happen to the body?
20 But as it is, there are many parts but one body.
21 So the eye can't say to the hand, "I don't need you," or in turn, the head can't say to the feet, "I don't need you."
22 Instead, the parts of the body that people think are the weakest are the most necessary.
23 The parts of the body that we think are less honorable are the ones we honor the most. The private parts of our body that aren't presentable are the ones that are given the most dignity.
24 The parts of our body that are presentable don't need this. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the part with less honor
25 so that there won't be division in the body and so the parts might have mutual concern for each other.
26 If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part gets the glory, all the parts celebrate with it.
27 You are the body of Christ and parts of each other.
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Let's not call those who are led and empowered by the Spirit evil. Isaiah 5:20