The Most Passionate Science Deniers Are Pro-Trans ‘Experts’ Who Profit From Carving Up Kids

ThatRobGuy

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I know you actually look for and read evidence sometimes....

Have you found the study proving suicide rates for prepubescent trans people are at some level that demands intervention?


Because I've looked...I can't find it.


That doesn't mean it doesn't exist though. The closest I've found is some speculation about anecdotal cases that are slim on proof....nothing even remotely close to something we should consider "factual"...and every time I see even professionals talk about this suicide rate, there's no citation.
There's actually a regional component to the suicide attempt rates among LGBT youth (that existed before any large scale conversations about transitioning youth and hormonal intervention), and that regional component happens to have a high overlap with the regions that are more receptive to the "new age" approaches being discussed, so it seems to be a case of some confounding variables at play making it tough to definitively say if there's any benefit in terms of suicide reduction as a result of some of these efforts because the suicide rate was already lower in the areas that seem to be the most receptive to trying it
 
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rjs330

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Not many detransition once they've already transitioned with drugs and surgeries. It's a little late then.

Secondly you are referring to a study that claimed upwards of 96% desisted. I never said that high. I'm referring to studies that showed anywhere from 65% to 80+%.

Kids that are left alone with no drugs and no surgeries by a large majority desist in their own.

I think I'm done with this thread. The trans supporters clearly do not know what's going on or do not care what's happening to our kids.

This whole training of the kids is a relatively new phenomenon. I'm not talking about just transgender dysphoria. That has always been considered a mental illness. I'm talking about separating that from the gender confusion that is not considered a mental illness.

Now we have parents losing their parental right and having their kids taken away for not affirming their child and not wanting them to be chemically castrated and or having their bodies mutilated by chopping off perfectly healthy body parts.

Desisting is a real thing and the fact that the majority do is clear evidence we should NOT be doing that to kids.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Perhaps others are willing to look at interventions to help before kids start killing themselves.
Just a thought.

Priorities KC....priorities.

Healthcare is expensive and a limited resource. If I know, for example, that the suicide rate of schizophrenics is very high and gets higher depending upon how many psychotic episodes they have before getting treatment and then....when they get treatment, staying on it becomes the most relevant predictor of suicide. Let's say I also know that getting treatment is far more difficult than it is for even trans people, for example, because the standard for being hospitalized against your will is a credible threat to your life or the lives of others....

Does it even make sense to pursue a possible solution for a problem which may not exist? Especially with so many potential problems that could result from this supposed solution?


I mean...how would you even know if your solution worked? You have no way of knowing if you made any difference at all unless you know how many are killing themselves now before your treatment model is used.
There's actually a regional component to the suicide attempt rates among LGBT youth (that existed before any large scale conversations about transitioning youth and hormonal intervention), and that regional component happens to have a high overlap with the regions that are more receptive to the "new age" approaches being discussed, so it seems to be a case of some confounding variables at play making it tough to definitively say if there's any benefit in terms of suicide reduction as a result of some of these efforts because the suicide rate was already lower in the areas that seem to be the most receptive to trying it

I can admit that I may not just be able to find the data and it's out there. I just can't find it, and since it can definitely be obtained, that itself seems questionable. It could have been reasonably approximated but lacks the emotional punch activists wanted.

I'm not even denying the possibility that I'm wrong about the treatment. To me, it seems like a problem with no solution....so when someone tells you they have one and can help you solve the problem....why wouldn't people facing such a problem be relieved? Depression and suicidal ideation decrease....

Then once the limits of treatment are reached, it seems they find the problem relatively unchanged. Despite an elaborate disguise....a concerted effort of mimicry.....there's no genuine transformation....just an alteration of appearance. Depression sets back in as the treatments ultimately fail to deliver....or outright disappoint. Somewhere along the journey I imagine the frustration of this repeated effort becomes a reason to externalize the problem. It's everyone else's fault for not seeing them as they want.

It's a problem without a solution....so I think it's activists, it's radical elements, have adopted poor tactics. The sort of obsessive pursuit of something they cannot possibly have, combined with the externalization of the cause of their problem....becomes a justification for deception and deliberate incrementalism. These small innocuous requests don't end. They compile into a series of concessions that although no one believes them....those making them are to embarrassed to admit it.

I don't think the childhood treatment is about suicide prevention. I think it's about passing....and they know saying so outright is a bit of a problem.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I can admit that I may not just be able to find the data and it's out there. I just can't find it, and since it can definitely be obtained, that itself seems questionable. It could have been reasonably approximated but lacks the emotional punch activists wanted.

I'm not even denying the possibility that I'm wrong about the treatment. To me, it seems like a problem with no solution....so when someone tells you they have one and can help you solve the problem....why wouldn't people facing such a problem be relieved? Depression and suicidal ideation decrease....
Basically what I was getting at, is that we don't necessarily know if there's huge benefits to the proposed interventions/treatments because while it's true that the suicide rates were lower among LGBT youth in the places that are, it was already lower in those places prior to those treatments being thrust into the forefront of the conversation.

I don't think that it's any sort of shocker than an LGBT kid living with more "progressive leaning" parents in SoCal or NYC probably experiences less of the bullying and social maltreatment as one living in rural Alabama or Oklahoma, so it makes sense that their suicide attempt rates were already lower. It just so happens that the places that are staunchly "for/against" the treatments line up, regionally with those scenarios.


It'd be like if there were two regions, one that had a preexisting high rate of drunk driving, and the other that did not, and then promoting even more drunk driving mitigation in the area that already had a low rate of it, and then trying to solely credit the outcomes with the mitigation measure.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Perhaps others are willing to look at interventions to help before kids start killing themselves.
Just a thought.

Priorities KC....priorities.

Healthcare is expensive and a limited resource. If I know, for example, that the suicide rate of schizophrenics is very high and gets higher depending upon how many psychotic episodes they have before getting treatment and then....when they get treatment, staying on it becomes the most relevant predictor of suicide. Let's say I also know that getting treatment is far more difficult than it is for even trans people, for example, because the standard for being hospitalized against your will is a credible threat to your life or the lives of others....

Does it even make sense to pursue a possible solution for a problem which may not exist? Especially with so many potential problems that could result from this supposed solution?


I mean...how would you even know if your solution worked? You have no way of knowing if you made any difference at all unless you know how many are killing themselves now before your treatment model is used.
There's actually a regional component to the suicide attempt rates among LGBT youth (that existed before any large scale conversations about transitioning youth and hormonal intervention), and that regional component happens to have a high overlap with the regions that are more receptive to the "new age" approaches being discussed, so it seems to be a case of some confounding variables at play making it tough to definitively say if there's any benefit in terms of suicide reduction as a result of some of these efforts because the suicide rate was already lower in the areas that seem to be the most receptive to trying it

I can admit that I may not just be able to find the data and it's out there. I just can't find it, and since it can definitely be obtained, that itself seems questionable. It could have been reasonably approximated but lacks the emotional punch activists wanted.

I'm not even denying the possibility that I'm wrong about the treatment. To me, it seems like a problem with no solution....so when someone tells you they have one and can help you solve the problem....why wouldn't people facing such a problem be relieved? Depression and suicidal ideation decrease....

Then once the limits of treatment are reached, it seems they find the problem relatively unchanged. Despite an elaborate disguise....a concerted effort of mimicry.....there's no genuine transformation....just an alteration of appearance. Depression sets back in as the treatments ultimately fail to deliver....or outright disappoint. Somewhere along the journey I imagine the frustration of this repeated effort becomes a reason to externalize the problem. It's everyone else's fault for not seeing them as they want.

It's a problem without a solution....so I think it's activists, it's radical elements, have adopted poor tactics. The sort of obsessive pursuit of something they cannot possibly have, combined with the externalization of the cause of their problem....becomes a justification for deception and deliberate incrementalism. These small innocuous requests don't end. They compile into a series of concessions that although no one believes them....those making them are to embarrassed to admit it.

I don't think the childhood treatment is about suicide prevention. I think it's about passing....and they know saying so outright is a bit of a problem.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Basically what I was getting at, is that we don't necessarily know if there's huge benefits to the proposed interventions/treatments because while it's true that the suicide rates were lower among LGBT youth in the places that are, it was already lower in those places prior to those treatments being thrust into the forefront of the conversation.

I don't think that it's any sort of shocker than an LGBT kid living with more "progressive leaning" parents in SoCal or NYC probably experiences less of the bullying and social maltreatment as one living in rural Alabama or Oklahoma, so it makes sense that their suicide attempt rates were already lower. It just so happens that the places that are staunchly "for/against" the treatments line up, regionally with those scenarios.


It'd be like if there were two regions, one that had a preexisting high rate of drunk driving, and the other that did not, and then promoting even more drunk driving mitigation in the area that already had a low rate of it, and then trying to solely credit the outcomes with the mitigation measure.

Oh the degree of manipulating data I'm some of these "research papers" the medical community is making guidelines off...it's scary. They aren't that dumb. The point I was making above was regarding a paper I saw that based the effectiveness of HRT on a 2 year study. That's a little short.

I've seen studies done with patients at the clinic doing the study...and I don't care if you tell them it's anonymous....those are invalid. You're giving them medication and asking them to rate the treatment. I've seen studies done that quite simply had sample sizes that were ridiculously small. We shouldn't be basing policy decisions on your 18 person study.

If I went on.... it's largely a mess. Even the study that I said was honest had problems. Why group transgender children in a survey with LGB children? Why include 18-24yo in a youth study? A standardized format for referencing starting gender and transitional gender is clearly needed....can't just say it a different way in every study.

The worst part is that these same activists do ignore the science as the OP says. The strongest data I've seen for this being a real condition is a twin study....and they hate it. It obviously points to a biological condition.

There's plenty of data to question the condition as well....but it's not as strong. It seems like a real thing....implausible or not. They may even have found the genetic sequence responsible.

They don't want these innate feelings to be biologically manipulated.....they'd rather blame society, call them the result of constructs, and then push some agenda for who knows what end.

I can extend all the sympathy I have to someone dealing with genuine mental health issues....but if they are going to insist on something else....we need to discuss what that is.

It seems like they hold two completely contradictory positions.

1. Society is wrong in it's recognition of biological differences as these things matter far less than some emotional response called gender. As such, we should disregard these biological differences in a wide variety of contexts.


2. The trans person themselves however is allowed to hold such biological differences as so important they are absolutely necessary to control as soon as possible....or suicide is the likely result.


So do these biological differences matter? Of course they do....they are of paramount importance to the trans person. A life and death issue. Yet at the very same time....we're being told to discard these fabricated ideas of sexual dimorphism. It's fundamentally absurd to claim both things.

It's this repetition of learning that this particular activist group seems both willing to deploy deception to achieve their goals and regularly does that's troubling.....because in the past I doubt the medical community would have gone along. They either sold their ethics and figure they can afford to settle for wrongdoing/malpractice cheaply for the children they damage.....or they are confident they can pass the buck onto the researchers who have been taking advantage of a completely broken peer review and grant process. I think they'll try to settle....but honestly, this gets fixed quickly when someone decides to take every last dime they can grab from the medical community.
 
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Kylie

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No....and judging by the rest of your post, your repeated mischaracterization of my position is going to be a running theme.

Is this some sort of reading issue? Do you understand the words I'm saying?

Trans people can present however they want. If you look like a man or woman in my eyes though....I shouldn't fear punishment because you disagree based upon some feelings. I can't see your feelings. I don't care enough about most people to remember their names let alone their pronouns. I do what trans people do and everyone else does and has done for all time....I call it as I see it.
Try replacing "trans people" with "black people" and see if you sound racist.
I didn't say anything about that....nor do I see why it's relevant. We all watched a transwoman who when competing as a man wouldn't be in the top 300....end up 1st against the actual woman. It doesn't really seem to matter what hormones anyone takes or doesn't.
You don't see how it's relevant?

You claimed that trans women have an advantage in sports because of their greater strength, and when I point out that the hormones they take pretty much eliminate that advantage you claim it's not relevant. How does that work?
You want a hard number or just anecdotal recent cases?

Because when this issue was first brought up, we were assured by it's advocates that such victimization wouldn't happen....and we had no reason to believe it would.

Since then it's happened repeatedly....over and over. I don't know how many more women have been victimized by what you support, but we know some have. I suppose that's ok for you....since you don't really know how big this problem is you can imagine it larger or smaller as best suits your position.
You really think anecdote is actual evidence? Please. Show me actual documented cases. I guarantee that the number of cases of this happening are going to be so tiny as to be essentially 0% of cases where people are assaulted by men who aren't pretending to be trans.
I said they have equal opportunities....not equal outcomes.

Unfortunately, there was this whole "MeToo" movement where mob justice was used to ruin the lives and careers of men who had never faced any sort of criminal accusation at all.

Someone made an analogy I thought was fitting....imagine you had a big bowl of skittles and I told you that one could be poisonous. How many would you eat?

Since then men have been a little reluctant to work closely with women.
The skittles analogy? Are you for real?

PEOPLE AREN'T SKITTLES.
It's the care model that's really at the heart of this problem. I don't think you know what it says to do.


Regardless, imagine I told you that I had a problem....a really significant problem that was part of my identity.....in fact, it makes me suicidal.

Regardless of whatever this problem is...would it be reasonable for me to suggest all of society changes to my liking? That they accept what I say is true or remain silent? If these are the only possible ways to "fix" my problem I would expect people to tell me I need to learn to live with it....to accept I cannot solve it. It's an unreasonable request.

What do you think? Should all society change to accommodate me and those like me? Is that a reasonable solution?


I would contend that fundamentally that what I'm asking of you....and all society....is far more immoral than what you ask of me, to learn to deal with it. It shouldn't matter how pathetic I portray myself as... nor how difficult my struggle. To ask such things of you and everyone else makes me a tyrant beyond the need of any compassion or consideration. After all, there's nothing stopping me from doing what everyone else does....my problem is that doing so makes me suicidal, so everyone has to change.
If I could drastically reduce your risk of suicide by doing a few things that take virtually no effort on my part, you better believe I would do it.
 
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Kylie

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Sorry, I almost forgot about this one....

I didn't say I never see anyone say gender affirming surgery is a bad thing. I've seen people who have gone through it say this. Of course I've heard that....

I said I've never heard anyone advocate this is something adults should not be allowed to choose to do to themselves. If gender affirming treatment is what you want....I hope it works out for you, sincerely.

In case you missed my previous post....that's not the problem. The problem is people have been told there's a suicide crisis....trans youth bodies dead and lifeless, just cluttering the streets. A mountain of corpses so high it demands we rethink everything we previously thought and give children the ability to consent to lifelong medical treatments and interventions for which they cannot possibly understand the consequences of....to save them from a similar fate.

I mean, fortunately I'm not an idiot who would just believe something like that without at least checking first. I don't want to advocate for something that might actually be doing more harm than good because I'm lazy or stupid.

I'm curious on how you arrived at your conclusion? How did you end up sooooo confident about a problem that you don't actually know exists? I mean, I'm sure there's some process by which one arrives there but please....describe it....because it's baffling to me. Obviously we can assume that there's some trans youth committing suicide....and even though I couldn't find the suicide rate, once I learned they were now a significantly larger portion of that age group I thought "perfect, there should be a corresponding raise in suicide across the entire age group" but I didn't see that either.


Any chance you think this likelihood of suicide has been....I dunno....dramatically misrepresented in order to gain a sort of sympathy from people who seem to think morality is something to demonstrate online devoid of any knowledge of the issue?
What you've seen is irrelevant, since you have not seen a true representation of the people who transition. You've seen a small subset of people who live near you and who you encounter. The studies which are designed to gather a true representative sample are a far better way to see what's really going on. And they show that giving people the gender affirming care they want is very effective at reducing depression and suicidal ideation.
 
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Kylie

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Greater threats?

Compared to this one? We don't seem to know how big this problem is....and it's not impossible to find out. We definitely could know.
Greater threats such as gun violence, racism, etc.
Smaller? Than what? Trans youth suicide?


Do you have the rate for trans youth suicide or not? I don't care about ideation or failed attempts. In terms of damage, those are far less significant than actual suicide.

For example, we've known for a long time women attempt suicide more often than men....but men succeed more often.


If I'm going to prioritize those problems...I'm more concerned about the people killing themselves. I've got more time to deal with those who try and fail....they're still alive.
You know, it strikes me that if we find out why people are suffering from depression and dealing with that, it will probably have the effect of reducing the number of suicides.

But what you're talking about seems to be little more than taking the gun away from the depressed person and locking them away with their depression rather than fixing the underlying problem.
 
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Kylie

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You provided me with sources about suicidal ideation (thinking about suicide) which will never be a high enough priority to justify the treatments suggested.
Oh yeah, no need to worry about the people who merely consider taking their own lives. Just wait until they actually do, then you can sit around and say you wish you could have done something.

Please, if I roll my eyes any harder I'll tear my optic nerve.
You also included attempted suicide. I'm assuming they failed in their attempts because they filled out surveys.

I have no idea what the actual suicide rates are....and that seems like it's really important to know for what is being suggested to treat it.
And you don't think that whatever drives them to attempt suicide is a problem?
When I ask for 1 number that only requires knowing 2 other numbers and a calculator...anything more than 1 source is overkill.
Whatever it takes for you to justify ignoring my sources, huh?
 
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Kylie

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You have proven yourself over and over again to not know much about this issue. It's time you did your own deep dive research.

You'll find the majority of "we have to allow kids to transgender" information is bogus.
If you think "transgender" is a verb, you obviously don't know what you are talking about, and I suspect the only "research" you've done into trans people is listening to some right wing ultraconservative anti trans alarmist claptrap.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Try replacing "trans people" with "black people" and see if you sound racist.

Ok...

Black people can present however they want. If you look like a man or woman in my eyes though....I shouldn't fear punishment because you disagree based upon some feelings. I can't see your feelings. I don't care enough about most people to remember their names let alone their pronouns. I do what black people do and everyone else does and has done for all time....I call it as I see it.

Doesn't sound racist to me....it doesn't make much sense in general but certainly not racist.
You don't see how it's relevant?

Nope.


You claimed that trans women have an advantage in sports because of their greater strength, and when I point out that the hormones they take pretty much eliminate that advantage you claim it's not relevant. How does that work?

It works like this, the guy broke at least every record the school has....he never lost to a woman....and probably holds multiple state and national records.

That would be the evidence that I'm right and you're wrong.


You really think anecdote is actual evidence? Please. Show me actual documented cases.

What kind of documentation? A study? Police reports? Will you be paying for the fees on the freedom of information act requests ?


I guarantee that the number of cases of this happening are going to be so tiny as to be essentially 0% of cases where people are assaulted by men who aren't pretending to be trans.

0% huh? That's low.


The skittles analogy? Are you for real?

Yes.


PEOPLE AREN'T SKITTLES.

You're about halfway to understanding what an analogy is....

You want to keep thinking about it or should I just explain?



If I could drastically reduce your risk of suicide by doing a few things that take virtually no effort on my part, you better believe I would do it.

Really?

Never offer your opinion on any topic publicly again. I mean I'm about to explain what an analogy is and that's so depressing for me to think this is an actual conversation.

I appreciate your help with this.
 
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Kylie

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Ok...

Black people can present however they want. If you look like a man or woman in my eyes though....I shouldn't fear punishment because you disagree based upon some feelings. I can't see your feelings. I don't care enough about most people to remember their names let alone their pronouns. I do what black people do and everyone else does and has done for all time....I call it as I see it.

Doesn't sound racist to me....it doesn't make much sense in general but certainly not racist.
If only trans people had some way of communicating with you so you can be aware of it...
I show you how the claim you are making is flawed and you don't see how that's relevant to the claim you are making?
It works like this, the guy broke at least every record the school has....he never lost to a woman....and probably holds multiple state and national records.

That would be the evidence that I'm right and you're wrong.
You just insist on treating trans women as men in dresses, doncha?
What kind of documentation? A study? Police reports? Will you be paying for the fees on the freedom of information act requests ?
Are you for real? Do you think that information about criminal activity is not available to the general public? How about a newspaper report? I can get newspaper reports for car thefts, homicides, sexual assaults, and you pretend that such information isn't available for people who pretend to be trans so they can assault women?
0% huh? That's low.
Yeah. Like I said ESSENTIALLY zero.

I found a source that says that over 463,000 people are the victims of sexual assault each year in the USA.

And I have a source which shows that there have been exactly ZERO cases of trans people using being trans as an excuse to get into a bathroom to assault someone. And the same source says that when it comes to being harassed in the bathroom, trans people are far more likely to be the VICTIMS of it rather than the perpetrator. Another source shows that one in two trans people experiences sexual assault.
You do know that it was originally used as an analogy for immigration, right? Not trans people? In any case, it's a stupid analogy.

And the analogy is based on a German Children's book written in the 1930s, the only difference is that they used mushrooms' instead of skittles. The author who came up with the analogy, Julius Streicher, was hanged at Nuremburg for crimes against humanity.
You're about halfway to understanding what an analogy is....

You want to keep thinking about it or should I just explain?
I know what an analogy is. Yours is ridiculous.
Never offer your opinion on any topic publicly again.
I don't take orders from you.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Greater threats such as gun violence, racism, etc.

How do you know if they're greater?


You don't know the size of this problem.

You know, it strikes me that if we find out why people are suffering from depression and dealing with that, it will probably have the effect of reducing the number of suicides.

Yeah....but why wouldn't the focus be on depression then? Far more people suffering from that.


But what you're talking about seems to be little more than taking the gun away from the depressed person and locking them away with their depression rather than fixing the underlying problem.
I don't think you can fix the underlying problem...I mean, you don't even know how serious this problem is....how many it affects.
 
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Kylie

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How do you know if they're greater?


You don't know the size of this problem.
I'm astounded that you can say this and expect to be taken seriously.

In the US since the beginning of the year, there have been 41,264 deaths related to gun violence and 31,318 injuries. SOURCE

Are you SERIOUSLY claiming that people pretending to be trans so they can commit sexual assaults is a BIGGER risk than this?

REALLY?
Yeah....but why wouldn't the focus be on depression then? Far more people suffering from that.
It is. And the evidence is clear that respect trans people does a huge amount to reduce and/or eliminate their depression. In other words, trans people suffer from depression because people are treating them like garbage.
I don't think you can fix the underlying problem...I mean, you don't even know how serious this problem is....how many it affects.
I have presented something which has been shown to work. Stop treating trans people like garbage. Show them respect. Stop telling them that they are wrong about their gender identity. There are literally hundreds of studies that show this.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Oh yeah, no need to worry about the people who merely consider taking their own lives. Just wait until they actually do, then you can sit around and say you wish you could have done something.

Again this is just a matter of pragmatism.

If I were concerned about an increase in suicide rates within a group....I would be most concerned about who is actually killing themselves.


Please, if I roll my eyes any harder I'll tear my optic nerve.

It's not going to affect your arguments....

And you don't think that whatever drives them to attempt suicide is a problem?

I first would need to establish a problem. You have no idea if a problem even exists.


Whatever it takes for you to justify ignoring my sources, huh?
Your sources don't provide what I asked for.


It's really simple....suicide rate of a given group.


We have to have that before we can begin to know anything.
 
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Ana the Ist

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What you've seen is irrelevant,
Then why are you asking about what I've seen?



since you have not seen a true representation of the people who transition.

Ohhhhh...a true representation. Right. I suppose true in this case is whatever conforms to your preformed beliefs on a topic you clearly didn't look into.


You've seen a small subset of people who live near you and who you encounter.
Nah, I can't imagine why you would assume this.



The studies which are designed to gather a true representative sample are a far better way to see what's really going on.
Unfortunately, those studies are far too often flawed.




And they show that giving people the gender affirming care they want is very effective at reducing depression and suicidal ideation.

I'm not actually even contesting this...I'm saying that when we look at adults who transition, they have similar suicide rates. It's as if these permanent treatments only provide temporary relief.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm astounded that you can say this and expect to be taken seriously.

In the US since the beginning of the year, there have been 41,264 deaths related to gun violence and 31,318 injuries. SOURCE

Are you SERIOUSLY claiming that people pretending to be trans so they can commit sexual assaults is a BIGGER risk than this?

I was pointing out that you don't know the size of the problem....not claiming I know.

If it makes you feel better though, I do generally try to focus on bigger problems. Remember Black Lives Matter? When many people were outraged at a handful of wrongful shootings, I was more concerned with the vastly larger problem of black on black murder.


REALLY?

It is. And the evidence is clear that respect trans people does a huge amount to reduce and/or eliminate their depression.
I don't see it as an issue of respect. Anyone seeking to control what I say doesn't deserve my respect....or yours. You should stand up for yourself.



In other words, trans people suffer from depression because people are treating them like garbage.

Is telling someone the truth treating them like garbage?


I have presented something which has been shown to work.

Actually you haven't.


Stop treating trans people like garbage..I

I don't.

Show them respect.

That's a two way street.



Stop telling them that they are wrong about their gender identity.

What if they are?



There are literally hundreds of studies that show this.

I know....it's alarming how bad the problem of this government funded research grants producing pure nonsense has gotten.
 
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Kylie

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Again this is just a matter of pragmatism.

If I were concerned about an increase in suicide rates within a group....I would be most concerned about who is actually killing themselves.
I'd be more concerned with what is driving them to kill themselves, and when it comes to trans people, that is very clear. People treat them like garbage.
I first would need to establish a problem. You have no idea if a problem even exists.
Are you trying to suggest that trans people aren't suffering from depression? They aren't killing themselves?
Your sources don't provide what I asked for.


It's really simple....suicide rate of a given group.


We have to have that before we can begin to know anything.
Okay then.

Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth. SOURCE

Surveys of Australian trans and non-binary youth have shown that between 82-92% report they have experienced suicidal thoughts at some point in their lives, 68-86% have ever self-harmed, and 35-48% have attempted suicide SOURCE

More than half of transgender male teens who participated in the survey reported attempting suicide in their lifetime, while 29.9 percent of transgender female teens said they attempted suicide. SOURCE

The first peer-reviewed study of the health and wellbeing of transgender adult Australians paints a grim state of health ... Most concerningly, 63 per cent reported previous self-harm and 43 per cent had attempted suicide. These statistics are many times higher than rates for the general Australian population. SOURCE

These sources are all in agreement. The percentage of trans people who have considered suicide is up around 80%, and the number of trans people who actually attempt suicide is around 45-50%.

There's your suicide rate.
 
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Kylie

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Then why are you asking about what I've seen?
I didn't ask if you had seen anyone go through gender affirming surgery.

I asked if you had ever seen anyone say that they think trans people getting gender affirming surgery is a bad thing.
Ohhhhh...a true representation. Right. I suppose true in this case is whatever conforms to your preformed beliefs on a topic you clearly didn't look into.
True in this case is what is shown by studies on this. There's a reason anecdote has no place in scientific studies, y'know.
Nah, I can't imagine why you would assume this.
Oh, so you've met with a wide variety of trans people from all age groups, socio-economic statuses, cultures, etc?

I doubt it.

Your own personal experience is nowhere near enough to form a valid conclusion on.
Unfortunately, those studies are far too often flawed.
I suppose true in this case is whatever conforms to your preformed beliefs on a topic you clearly didn't look into.
I'm not actually even contesting this...I'm saying that when we look at adults who transition, they have similar suicide rates. It's as if these permanent treatments only provide temporary relief.
Maybe it's because, I don't know, people still treat them like garbage even when they transition?
 
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