The Most Important Hour of the Week

[Sola1517]

"Evangelistic preaching" is a redundant phrase. All preaching is evangelistic.

Well, true. But then who are God's people? Are unbelievers also God's people?

 

[Tree of Life]

Well, true. But then who are God's people? Are unbelievers also God's people?

It depends on what you mean by "God's people". In one sense unbelievers can be a part of God's people but in another sense they are not. But when God's word is preached Jesus is addressing everyone - believers and unbelievers alike.

 

[Aseyesee]

The most important thing in the world happens one hour per week (every week!). On Sunday morning sometime between 9am-12pm GOD SPEAKS to his creation. Through the instrumentality of sinful, frail, yet sanctified and ordained men God does this. As these feeble servants ascend the pulpit, open the word of God, read it, and explain it, Jesus Christ himself speaks to his people and to his world. He declares his gospel and his kingdom and commands all people everywhere to repent. He strengthens the weak, seeks the lost, heals the broken, humbles the proud, and gives grace to the humble. He judges between brothers and administers justice.

Woe to all who despise the words of the living God! Blessed are all who draw near to hear his voice! All who have ears to hear, let them hear.

Did you know that such a miraculous, wonderful, and heavenly event occurred on such a regular basis? Are you sufficiently thankful for this wonderful and regular gift from God?

One hour?

God can give you more in a moment, then all those who have ever lived could give you in a life time.

 

[Tree of Life]

One hour?

Unless of course churches meet for longer and preaching exceeds an hour.

God can give you more in a moment, then all those who have ever lived could give you in a life time.

I don't disagree. But what relevance do you think this has here?

 

[Sola1517]

It depends on what you mean by "God's people". In one sense unbelievers can be a part of God's people but in another sense they are not. But when God's word is preached Jesus is addressing everyone - believers and unbelievers alike.

True. God's word does address everyone. I believe that every human has the potential to be God's people as well. I just think to call an unbeliever one of God's people is kind of like saying "This cat is a dog." You know?

And you're PCA?

 

[Tree of Life]

True. God's word does address everyone. I believe that every human has the potential to be God's people as well. I just think to call an unbeliever one of God's people is kind of like saying "This cat is a dog." You know?

And you're PCA?

Yes I'm PCA.

This is how we in the PCA could conceivably consider an unbeliever to be one of God's people. If someone is a member of the church then they are, in some sense, one of God's people. They may not truly be a child of God, but they do (at least for now) belong to the covenant community of God's people. So someone who can make a profession of faith and who has no visible unrepentant sin in their lives could be a member of the church, but conceivably they are unregenerate and have all kinds of hidden sin that they are unwilling to repent of. Or a child that is born into a Christian family. They become a member of the church by virtue of their parents' faith, but they are not yet a true believer. So they are, in some sense, a member of God's people even before they are regenerate.

 

[Hall]

There are a few ways God speaks to people to make His word and truth known; preachers, Christians, strangers, His Holy Spirit in ours reflecting through our mouths, His written Word, here, etc.

 

[Tree of Life]

There are a few ways God speaks to people to make His word and truth known; preachers, Christians, strangers, His Holy Spirit in ours reflecting through our mouths, His written Word, here, etc.

I agree. But I would argue that preaching from his ordained ministers is the primary way that he makes himself known.

 

[Hall]

I agree. But I would argue that preaching from his ordained ministers is the primary way that he makes himself known.

It usually is the way it starts, so I would also agree that it is the primary way followed by many other different ways. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the primary step everyone must take to get to know Him.

 

[Tree of Life]

It usually is the way it starts, so I would also agree that it is the primary way followed by many other different ways. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the primary step everyone must take to get to know Him.

That's correct. Just because corn usually grows in nice, orderly rows does not mean that it cannot grow in some wild and unexpected way.

 

[Sola1517]

Yes I'm PCA.

This is how we in the PCA could conceivably consider an unbeliever to be one of God's people. If someone is a member of the church then they are, in some sense, one of God's people. They may not truly be a child of God, but they do (at least for now) belong to the covenant community of God's people. So someone who can make a profession of faith and who has no visible unrepentant sin in their lives could be a member of the church, but conceivably they are unregenerate and have all kinds of hidden sin that they are unwilling to repent of. Or a child that is born into a Christian family. They become a member of the church by virtue of their parents' faith, but they are not yet a true believer. So they are, in some sense, a member of God's people even before they are regenerate.

That's where the issue of infant baptism gets crazy for me.

 

[Tree of Life]

That's where the issue of infant baptism gets crazy for me.

It's a sticky point for many.

It really comes down to a difference in how we understand the church. Credo-baptists tend to believe in believers-only church membership. Paedo-baptists believe that the church will always be a mixed bag of the truly saved and false-professors.

 

[Sola1517]

It's a sticky point for many.

I know a few Presbyterians that have come to my church before. Love em, just don't know where infant baptism is in Scripture.

 

[Tree of Life]

I know a few Presbyterians that have come to my church before. Love em, just don't know where infant baptism is in Scripture.

While I do think there are a few important "proof texts" for infant baptism, it's more of a paradigm shift in how we view the church in general and, thus, all of Scripture. It's kindof an ecclesial lens (or set of assumptions about the church) that we come to view all of Scripture through. Baptist ecclesiology is the same way.

 

[Sola1517]

Baptist ecclesiology is the same way.

Really? Cause I'm a Baptist and we do Believer's baptism.

 

[Tree of Life]

Really? Cause I'm a Baptist and we do Believer's baptism.

What I mean is that baptist ecclesiology is also like a lens through which we read the Scriptures that affects the way we understand the whole. The issue of credo vs paedo baptism is much bigger than baptism. It's an issue of ecclesiology.

 

[Sola1517]

What I mean is that baptist ecclesiology is also like a lens through which we read the Scriptures that affects the way we understand the whole. The issue of credo vs paedo baptism is much bigger than baptism. It's an issue of ecclesiology.

Oh okay.

 

[Rick Otto]

We call it "general revelation" because creation certainly communicates things about God (his glory, his eternality, his existence, his wisdom, etc...). But it does not communicate specific things about God (his name, his plan for creation, his means of salvation, how he ought to be worshipped). These latter things are communicated through his written word (what Psalm 19 refers to as "the Law"). So Psalm 19 juxtaposes general revelation with special revelation. And special revelation is what's going on when God's word is preached.

Thank you for that.
Judy because one cannot or will not see beyond the general to the specific does not not mean it isn't there and can't be done.

Preachers have been trying to claim a corner on truth since forever.

 

[Rick Otto]

I don't believe that preachers are infallible. Still, they are God's primary chosen means of speaking to his people.

I would quibble that they are second to creation itself if not third behind Jesus being The Word

 

[Tree of Life]

I would quibble that they are second to creation itself if not third behind Jesus being The Word

Anything the preacher says is utterly dependent upon the living word Jesus Christ. And without creation to testify the preacher would also be impotent. But those things aside, preaching is a big deal.

 

[Tree of Life]

Thank you for that.
Judy because one cannot or will not see beyond the general to the specific does not not mean it isn't there and can't be done.

Preachers have been trying to claim a corner on truth since forever.

Well general revelation is a huge deal. But it's hard for me to see how we can discern that "God sent his son Jesus to save sinners" from meditating on the beauties of creation.