The Most Common Theological Error in the Western Church Today

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Does it speak of Jesus Christ as prexisting; before existing on the earth? I believe it does. (So does John 1)

Does it speak of Jesus as the creator usurping God Almighty. I believe it does? (The Father gave ALL Authority to his Son in Matthew 28:18)

Does it believe that he was actually born as 100 percent human being? I believe it does not. (Sure it does, 100% man and 100% God)

Does it believe that Jesus Christ was and is a diety that transformed himself either by himself or via God Almighty into a human being. I believe it does. And how can this be comprehensible and scriptural in any way is beyond me. (Because you don't understand it)

Or maybe it says in the most simplest language that I can generate, is that God the I AM helped another god if you will into being a human or this diety called 'Jesus' did it all by himself, or God the I AM transformed himself into a human being? I believe this is glossly incomprehensible. (then you are not Trinitarian)

And then does it say the Jesus the Christ was God himself? I believe it does?
I don't believe it gives any mention of who Jesus Christ was and that he was the anointed one? I believe I'm correct. (no, you are incorrect)

Do you know what this anointing means? (yes, do you?)

It has everything to do with why he had to be 100% human and never God or a diety or both. I leave that thought with you to discover and understand if want.
I believe you should now have my thoughts and meaning of my initial statements that caught your eye, using your own creed (as you believe in it?) and you recite weekly, as a great basis to make my truthful response back to you.
In my mind I wonder how you can actually believe that Jesus the Christ could have actually died a human being by believing in the creed I just mentioned. I guess you may use the unapproachable 'dual nature' trump card and corporate defense as your brand of Jesus Christ. It is not mine, never. You might own the wrong brand of Jesus Christ, just might.
In Christ, always

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Most Common Theological Error in the Western Church Today

Perhaps the misunderstandings/misinterpretations of some of the parables Jesus spoke. This one especially comes to mind as it is associated with the doctrine of "hell" [which Judaism rejects btw].
This parable is actually one of my largest studies of the NT. [and no, I do not want to get into a debate here about "hell"] Thoughts?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.
Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching.

Those who insist that this is not a parable but a true, literal story Yeshua told to describe the condition of the lost in hell must overlook several facts to arrive at that conclusion...........................

CONCLUSION
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day. Yet the time is soon coming when God will pour on the Jews the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on their Messiah whom they pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a firstborn (Zec. 12:10).

 

[Haipule]

?

Do you believe in the "Holy Spirit"? "Holy Spirit" is the impossible meaning of the Greek neuter noun pneuma!

pneuma means: breath and refers to a breath of intellect from an exterior source. This in contrast to the noun psuchE(erroneously translated as "soul") which means: breath and refers to natural breath, instinct and intellect and also has a verb form. Can a "soul" have a verb form?

When your English bible says that, "Animals have a soul but do not have a spirit" means: animal have a natural breath, instinct and intellect. However, they cannot process pneuma as in 'read a book'. You can!

When Hebrews 4 says that the Word is like a small sword/large knife and can divide the pneuma and the psuchE means that the Word can divide any useless information you are harboring whether pneuma or psuchE. What information we breathe in can effect our pneuma and our psuchE.

Spirit is the worst translation we could have given the Greek word pneuma or the Hebrew word ruwach, second only to “Ghost”. spiritus, transliterated as spirit into English, has done little for us in the understanding of pure pneuma, the pure breath-effect of God through means of study of the God-breathed Scripture.

If we think in terms of “spirit”, as a person, in a modern English sense, then we will naturally also think in terms of being indwelt by “the Spirit”, rather than the pneuma-breath of God making its home in us, through study, as it is revealed in Scripture, or possessed by “the Spirit” rather than to possess it through study, the pneuma-breath of God, as revealed in Scripture, or controlled by “the Spirit” rather than to live a life pneumatikOs, pneumatically(according to God’s pneuma-breath), through study, as revealed in the God-breathed Scripture, or “filled with the Spirit” rather than understanding that the only way to be “filled with the breath of God is to study it! Fill’er up pastor and with the good stuff! For we cannot run on empty! And not long on “VAPORS”.

Being “possessed”, “indwelt”, “controlled by the Spirit” and “filled with the Spirit”, is rather esoteric compared to understanding it as simply; the pneuma-breath, or breathing of God into us through study, which is something a 7 yr old can understand. Although, it is neither a simple thought nor a complex one, it is whatever our capacity to think in terms of God’s pneuma-breath can take us. It is infinite in scope: it has neither beginning nor end. Therefore, the thoughts of pneuma, as well as the rest of the Word of God, which are God-breathed, cannot be reduced entirely into a set of principles. Yet we must, as we all have, start somewhere.

Therefore, you cannot take pneuma hagion = [ ]breath pure-being; invent “Spirit”; switch the word order and turn a predicate adjective into an attributive adjective; then add the definite article turning an anarthrous construction into an articular construction; capitalize it(which a hearer cannot see); completely ignore the neuter gender and translate it as “the Holy Spirit” in any sense of academic honesty.

So, for nearly 2,000yrs we have been fed, by both the East and West, the "spirit", "spiritual", "spiritually", "spirituality" esoteric nonsense from the clergy and then cannot breathe!

That, to me, is the "worst thing".

 

[jimmyjimmy]

That's quite a broad brush. However, I would say it is more accurate the evangelical churches are 'splintering' or 'dividing' on these lines of effort.

Given Evangelicals were unified under the early 20th century fundamentalism (5 fundamentals-a la RA Torrey et. al.) and various gospel and mission ministries, and later due to moral social issues facing our nation, now we see quite a few blocks departing from the original fundamentals, and thus the compounded error which comes from that.

I've been to about 125 churches over the past 30 years. My assessment is based on my experience.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

When your English bible says that, "Animals have a soul but do not have a spirit" means: animal have a natural breath, instinct and intellect. However, they cannot process pneuma as in 'read a book'. You can!

Spirit is the worst translation we could have given the Greek word pneuma or the Hebrew word ruwach, second only to “Ghost”. spiritus, transliterated as spirit into English, has done little for us in the understanding of pure pneuma, the pure breath-effect of God through means of study of the God-breathed Scripture.

If we think in terms of “spirit”, as a person, in a modern English sense, then we will naturally also think in terms of being indwelt by “the Spirit”, rather than the pneuma-breath of God making its home in us, through study, as it is revealed in Scripture, or possessed by “the Spirit” rather than to possess it through study, the pneuma-breath of God, as revealed in Scripture, or controlled by “the Spirit” rather than to live a life pneumatikOs, pneumatically(according to God’s pneuma-breath), through study, as revealed in the God-breathed Scripture, or “filled with the Spirit” rather than understanding that the only way to be “filled with the breath of God is to study it! Fill’er up pastor and with the good stuff! For we cannot run on empty! And not long on “VAPORS”.

Being “possessed”, “indwelt”, “controlled by the Spirit” and “filled with the Spirit”, is rather esoteric compared to understanding it as simply; the pneuma-breath, or breathing of God into us through study, which is something a 7 yr old can understand. Although, it is neither a simple thought nor a complex one, it is whatever our capacity to think in terms of God’s pneuma-breath can take us. It is infinite in scope: it has neither beginning nor end. Therefore, the thoughts of pneuma, as well as the rest of the Word of God, which are God-breathed, cannot be reduced entirely into a set of principles. Yet we must, as we all have, start somewhere.

Therefore, you cannot take pneuma hagion = [ ]breath pure-being; invent “Spirit”; switch the word order and turn a predicate adjective into an attributive adjective; then add the definite article turning an anarthrous construction into an articular construction; capitalize it(which a hearer cannot see); completely ignore the neuter gender and translate it as “the Holy Spirit” in any sense of academic honesty.

So, for nearly 2,000yrs we have been fed, by both the East and West, the "spirit", "spiritual", "spiritually", "spirituality" esoteric nonsense from the clergy and then cannot breathe!

That, to me, is the "worst thing".

makes you wonder how Yeshua sent the evil spirits into the swine. Do they or can they only inhabit a body, but not a soul or spirit?

 

[Haipule]

makes you wonder how Yeshua sent the evil spirits into the swine. Do they or can they only inhabit a body, but not a soul or spirit?

I love that passage! Man invented "soul" and "spirit"--not God! The term "evil spirits" is not found in this passage. It says two men were daimonizomenoi which is a middle-passive present participle(verbal adjective).

The present tense means that they are always like this and the middle-passive means that they were motivated to be and live that way.

The problem is our English word "demon" is a transliteration of the Greek "daimOn" which is a neuter noun with the -On ending meaning being/existence. The very root of the word is daio which means: to distribute fortune. I guess we can see these two men's motivation.

Being transliterated, it is not translated for us! So, men instead make up the meaning. I have studied it many times and I get nowhere! daimOn, using other Greek sources, Thayer teaches to mean: inferior god/goddess--good or bad.

The term "evil spirit" in the Greek is: "to pneuma to ponEron" with the articular adjective ponEron in the predicate position and means: annoying-being. "-being" being a copula or, linking verb to facilitate the English language which needs it. The Greek does not.

We can translate hyper-literally to pneuma to ponEron as: thee pneuma-breath namely--thee annoying-being. Or in modern English: The pneuma-breath (is) annoying. But, that would be confusing and misleading.

Anyway, Satan and his host are completely ANNOYING!!!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I've been to about 125 churches over the past 30 years. My assessment is based on my experience.

Is there anyplace in Scripture YHWH says to base your assessment on your experience !?

 

[jykond]

I think the message of prosperity brought with it many damning consequences. It changed the mindset of the people from the loving God to the God who only cares about the well to do

 

[Apex]

is?

Asceticism

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Asceticism

Asceticism??? How so? You are either living in a different century than they rest us, or just happen to hang out with a lot of monks. . .

In the west, I see very few denying themselves anything. The church is growing in Antinomianism, so maybe I can understand your comment in light of that, because only an antinomian could possibly think that the greatest error in the western church *today* is asceticism.

 

[Quasiblogo]

. . . thinking of "Church" in terms of east and west.

 

[AlexDTX]

Do you believe in the "Holy Spirit"? "Holy Spirit" is the impossible meaning of the Greek neuter noun pneuma!

pneuma means: breath and refers to a breath of intellect from an exterior source. This in contrast to the noun psuchE(erroneously translated as "soul") which means: breath and refers to natural breath, instinct and intellect and also has a verb form. Can a "soul" have a verb form?

When your English bible says that, "Animals have a soul but do not have a spirit" means: animal have a natural breath, instinct and intellect. However, they cannot process pneuma as in 'read a book'. You can!

When Hebrews 4 says that the Word is like a small sword/large knife and can divide the pneuma and the psuchE means that the Word can divide any useless information you are harboring whether pneuma or psuchE. What information we breathe in can effect our pneuma and our psuchE.

Spirit is the worst translation we could have given the Greek word pneuma or the Hebrew word ruwach, second only to “Ghost”. spiritus, transliterated as spirit into English, has done little for us in the understanding of pure pneuma, the pure breath-effect of God through means of study of the God-breathed Scripture.

If we think in terms of “spirit”, as a person, in a modern English sense, then we will naturally also think in terms of being indwelt by “the Spirit”, rather than the pneuma-breath of God making its home in us, through study, as it is revealed in Scripture, or possessed by “the Spirit” rather than to possess it through study, the pneuma-breath of God, as revealed in Scripture, or controlled by “the Spirit” rather than to live a life pneumatikOs, pneumatically(according to God’s pneuma-breath), through study, as revealed in the God-breathed Scripture, or “filled with the Spirit” rather than understanding that the only way to be “filled with the breath of God is to study it! Fill’er up pastor and with the good stuff! For we cannot run on empty! And not long on “VAPORS”.

Being “possessed”, “indwelt”, “controlled by the Spirit” and “filled with the Spirit”, is rather esoteric compared to understanding it as simply; the pneuma-breath, or breathing of God into us through study, which is something a 7 yr old can understand. Although, it is neither a simple thought nor a complex one, it is whatever our capacity to think in terms of God’s pneuma-breath can take us. It is infinite in scope: it has neither beginning nor end. Therefore, the thoughts of pneuma, as well as the rest of the Word of God, which are God-breathed, cannot be reduced entirely into a set of principles. Yet we must, as we all have, start somewhere.

Therefore, you cannot take pneuma hagion = [ ]breath pure-being; invent “Spirit”; switch the word order and turn a predicate adjective into an attributive adjective; then add the definite article turning an anarthrous construction into an articular construction; capitalize it(which a hearer cannot see); completely ignore the neuter gender and translate it as “the Holy Spirit” in any sense of academic honesty.

So, for nearly 2,000yrs we have been fed, by both the East and West, the "spirit", "spiritual", "spiritually", "spirituality" esoteric nonsense from the clergy and then cannot breathe!

That, to me, is the "worst thing".

OK. Thank you for your explanation. I do not agree with your interpretation since you are being very rigid in your definition, but you have the right to your opinion.

 

[Albion]

I think the message of prosperity brought with it many damning consequences. It changed the mindset of the people from the loving God to the God who only cares about the well to do

While this is a problem and it's taken hold in some churches, particularly unaffiliated congregations and megachurches, it isn't the most common theological error in Western Christianity, that's for sure.

 

[Jwlickliter]

Maybe after all the replies are in, a new thread with a poll listing all the guesses made here could be featured.

Yeah from the way things look I strongly suggest this or some type of vote system for the top 3 or 5 or something.

 

[Jwlickliter]

After thinking about this for awhile now I'm going to try again.

The biggest error i think is understanding the difference between God's rules and choices.

We all have choices and decisions to make this is true. God's rules we have choices on that as well but I think we could be faced with a choice that wouldn't make any difference to God. Like if I choose to take a different route to work. How did I sin? Well I didn't. Dosnt matter. But if I took a different route to pick up my mistress then there's a problem.

So I was in church one day when these people took there walk to get saved and they said there prayer. Now these people been saved like 5 times before this. People told me about them and I asked them and both sides confirmed this was true. After getting saved the sixth time they took a flight to be filmed on the Jerry Springer show. We all know what Jerry is about. People in the church decided to delay there baptisim. They also had a negative option on them cause of this and there past so I'm sure they noticed it and left that church cause of the situation.

I didn't agree to delay the baptism and I knew all the fact cause I don't feel it's my place to do so and God knows the truth.

So who's to say what the future holds? Sure they didn't bear good fruit but I still think it's better for them to stay then to leave. God should handle this and not us.

So i hoped I explained this correctly. Many people fall out of church for many reasons. I just don't think we as humans should make decisions to cause this to happen. These people were young like 20. They could have many years of failure before they see success. Yeah I think this happens alot.

 

[Mountainmike]

It has to be the reformation falsehood that all can interpret scripture, without reference to authority and tradition which carry the meaning.

Net result is mutually exclusive disagreement on every aspect of doctrine, and so the error has led to thousands of schisms.

For example you cannot read early church documents, of those taught by the apostles, or church fathers or councils without accepting real presence in the Eucharist, valid only if performed by appointed succession clergy. That is the true meaning of John 6 etc.

Only divorcing scripture from its meaning, allowing all to decide for themselves have a myriad of other interpretations proliferated.

Others like OSAS equally damaging but all stem from the reformationist attempt to divorce scripture from authority and meaning, allowing all to decide for themselves.

As Luther lamented in later life, " it is the greatest of scandals" " every milkmaid now has their own doctrine". Luther regretted the monster he helped to create, but he could not put pandora back into the box.

 

[Albion]

It has to be the reformation falsehood that all can interpret scripture, without reference to authority and tradition which carry the meaning.

That's what freedom does. Its not a Reformation principle.

But once ordinary people were allowed to read the Bible, of course differences of opinion arose and the iron fist of an Inquisition could no longer stop it.

For me, knowing that some people misunderstand some of the Bible is not as alarming as living in a society in which a dominant church enforces its particular misunderstanding of some of the Bible through the police powers of the government.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It has to be the reformation falsehood that all can interpret scripture, without reference to authority and tradition which carry the meaning.............

As Luther lamented in later life, " it is the greatest of scandals" " every milkmaid now has their own doctrine". Luther regretted the monster he helped to create, but he could not put pandora back into the box.

There are a few GT threads discussing the Reformation,but perhaps this isn't the place to debate that here[tho I will be glad to if allowed]. I only mention it since you brought it up.

Was God behind the Reformation?
Was God behind the Reformation? [poll thread]

1. * Yes 161 vote(s) 058.5%
2. No 114 vote(s) 41.5%

Certainly the protestants view Luther differently than Catholics. I referenced his quotes because they back the claim I stated earlier that he felt sad over the schisms. Do you dispute the quotes?

God Bless

William Tyndale

A clergyman hopelessly entrenched in Roman Catholic dogma once taunted Tyndale with the statement, “"We are better to be without God’s laws than the Pope’s”".
Tyndale was infuriated by such Roman Catholic heresies, and he replied, "“I defy the Pope and all his laws.
If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!"”

Tyndale was then strangled and burnt at the stake in the prison yard, Oct. 6, 1536. His last words were, "Lord, open the king of England's eyes!!"
This prayer was answered three years later, in the publication of King Henry VIII’s 1539 English “Great Bible”.

 

[Haipule]

OK. Thank you for your explanation. I do not agree with your interpretation since you are being very rigid in your definition, but you have the right to your opinion.

Thank you for recognizing my right. 500yrs ago I would have been burned at the stake by the church for saying that. Yet, I want to go yet a step further with pneuma.

logos is word(s) that reveals intellect. When your studying God's logos, you are breathing in God's pneuma-breath. When you speak it, you are exhaling pneuma-breath. Yet, theology corrupts that pneuma with it's own logos. So, everything they say smells and sounds like a fart to me and all I can do is ask, "Would you like a breath mint!"

By corrupting God's pneuma-breath with "Spirit"... (Excerpt from the Kindle eBook Wake Up Call: William McCoy) Used by permission

By turning God’s pure breath and breathing into the so-called “Holy Spirit”, they hide from man his only means of being cleansed and purified. Since the invented Holy Spirit was a so-called person of God, all the characteristics of the word hagiasmos were associated only with God. So, when it came down to understanding how man fit into this picture, man had to be somehow separated from the world and that separation is taught as “sanctification”. When we keep God’s instructions for the zOE-life as commanded and study His word, breathe His breath, we are then being cleansed and purified. We then own that state of being. Ain’t it Good!

Man is cleansed with [ ]bath of renovation when he breathes the pure pneuma-breath of God, the theopnustos God-breathed written Scripture of the water of God’s Word: and also that which we can understand of it through the experiences of our promised abundant breathing zOE-life! Which life is built upon the resultant cleansed state of hagiasmos(purification).

because it is written, " YOU(-all) SHALL BE HOLY(pure, unique), FOR I(God) AM HOLY(pure, unique)." 1 Pet 1:16 NASB (quoting Lev 19:2)

For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification(hagiasmos-resultant state of being purified, or purification used as the opposite of the previous word “impurity”). 1 Thess 4:7 NASB See how silly?

Hyper-Literal: Yet we(Paul, Silvanus, Timothy) ought to-be-thanking to-thee God always concerning you-all(call-out-ones of Thessalonica) Brethren!, you-all-having-been-agapE-loved under [ ]of-authority, He(God)-preferred you-all, thee God, that from [ ]of-beginning unto deliverance(noun of action), [ ]to-purification(hagiasmos) of-pneuma-breath and-also [ ]to-trust of-truth(noun of action). 2 Thess 2:13

So you see boys and girls, we are processed, rescued or delivered, into the resultant state of being purified through the study of God’s pure pneuma-breath, the God-breathed Scripture, which cleanses us and makes us unique so that we can live zOE-life through faith-noun from the source of truth in freedom from the tyrants of earth and instead live in God’s kingdom. (end excerpt)

I ask you: having vomited theology out of my mouth, shall return like a dog and see if I can pick out some tasty chunks? And, having been cleansed and purified (hagiosmos) by the logos of God's pneuma-breath, shall I return to wallow in the mud like a pig?

 

[Jwlickliter]

Wow I don't have any words for that!