The moral and ethical dillema of enjoying heaven while innocent people suffer in hell.

TedT

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If someone offered me a future where I would be incapable of experiencing pain or sadness while those I loved suffered eternal pain and sadness, I would not be inclined to trust in this promise, or accept it. It would sound like a bribe to abandon your humanity and empathy.

The heavenly experience of love for others and hatred for evil is promised to be pure and perfect so anything less is a either a lie about the meaning of heaven or an indulgence in telling the story badly in disdain for heaven.

If we love someone who turns out to be a psychopath in disguise, should our love for them surmount our love for justice? Should they be allowed into heaven to continue their predatory behaviours against those now holy? The suggestion that they would indeed continue is found in the book of Job where Satan is exposed as the most evil person in the world by torturing the most holy man on earth just because GOD liked him, sigh.
 
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TedT

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B. Those who are saved merely experience the beatitude of Heaven while the damned concurrently experience the pains of Hell.
....and, a necessary corollary is that the damned knew about the consequences before they chose to sin the unforgivable sin but they put their faith in the lie, the unproven hope, that HE was a liar and therefore a false and evil god with no power to define sin and righteousness to suit HIMself and with no heaven or hell.

They committed to this idea knowing if He ever proved himself as their Creator GOD, they would be doomed to hell but so sure were they, so willing to go to hell rather than live in Heaven with this liar they hated, as HIS Bride, they continued in their stubborness.
 
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PloverWing

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If we love someone who turns out to be a psychopath in disguise, should our love for them surmount our love for justice?

Our care for their well-being should outweigh our desire for vengeance.

Should they be allowed into heaven to continue their predatory behaviours against those now holy?

Not to continue their predatory behaviors, no. But suppose God was powerful enough to heal the person of their psychopathology and deliver them from the drive to hurt others, and was able to to create empathy and compassion within them. And suppose God was also powerful enough to heal the psychopath's victims of the damage that had been done to them. If that were true, then the former psychopath could become a fit citizen of heaven.
 
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TedT

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But suppose God was powerful enough to heal the person of their psychopathology and deliver them from the drive to hurt others, and was able to to create empathy and compassion within them.

GOD of course CAN AND DOES heal psychopathology in His sheep gone astray into psychopathology all the time! The only difference between those saved and those who cannot be saved as unforgivable is found in the choice the elect made to bow to HIM as their GOD before they sinned though once they got HIS promise of salvation from all sin called election and were safe from hell, they went their own way into sin against HIS wishes.

This ploy was firmly rejected by the reprobate as unworthy of their hatred for this liar and false god. By their free will they rebuked HIM as a liar and false god driven by an evil megalomania.

IF a free will means anything, it must mean that no one can change your mind against your will, ie, unless you have given them permission to do so. Since our first sin enslaves us by its addictive power, after we become sinful by sinning our first sin, we can and never would ever ask anyone to save us or to help us to repent. Thus we had to ask for HIS help to save and sanctify us before we sinned our first sin, which we did by accepting HIM as our LORD and Saviour.

The UNforgivable sin, a bit more detail:
First, the demons are NOT unforgivable because their sin is worse than the sins of the elect. As I understand Christianity, all sin is equal, that is, all sin has an equal and ultimate disvalue with GOD. Therefore, while we judge sins as worse (high suffering) or less (less suffering), from GOD's pov they are the same and have equal and ultimate moral disvalue.

It is the person's relationship with GOD that accounts for the word, saved, not whether the sin is less or more. A person who, by their free will, has accepted YHWH as their GOD is then under HIS promise that if they should ever sin and become evil in HIS sight, HE would do all the work necessary to bring that person back to their first true free will decision to follow HIM, to break the intense addiction to evil they have self created by their decision to be evil, and to teach that person to never sin again. By accepting HIM as their saviour, they accepted HIM to change their minds from evil if they should ever need it.

The unforgivable sin was the Satanic fall, their free will decision to reject by faith, ie, an unproven hope, YHWH's claims to be our creator GOD and to reject the gospel of salvation from sin as found only in the Son. It contained the ideas that HE was no better than the rest of us so HE must be a liar and as a liar, a false god. As the first liar in all of creation, HE must therefore be the most evil person in existence so they repudiated HIM perfectly, rejecting HIM from having any influence in their lives at all. Putting their faith in this idea that HE was evil and driven by a psychotic megalomania made them eternally unfit to ever be HIS Bride so they were condemned to judgement on the spot.

They can't be forgiven because
- they made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity by their free will and a free will decision cannot be changed by anyone unless the person asks for it to be changed.

- Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance, that is, they couldn't save themselves from its addictive power by their own choice. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil of being committed fully to the belief they were right to rebel against this upstart liar and false god.

Amen...
 
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Ligurian

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I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love

Job 38:4-11 Where wast thou when I founded the earth? tell me now, if thou hast knowledge,[5] who set the measures of it, if thou knowest? or who stretched a line upon it?[6] On what are its rings fastened? and who is he that laid the corner-stone upon it?[7] When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice.[8] And I shut up the sea with gates, when it rushed out, coming forth out its mother's womb.[9] And I made a cloud its clothing, and swathed it in mist.[10] And I set bounds to it, surrounding it with bars and gates.[11] And I said to it, Hitherto shalt thou come, but thou shalt not go beyond, but thy waves shall be confined within thee.

John 14:21-24 He that hath My Commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.[22] Judas saith unto Him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest Thyself unto us, and not unto the world?[23] Ιησους answered and said unto him, If a man love Me he will keep My words, and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him and make Our abode with him.[24] He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings; and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?
A point to contemplate is that God created humans...Adam and Eve...sinless and in God's image. They fell into temptation though forewarned by God against sin. What do we do with this sinful condition? We were forever separated from a holy sinless God and Father who promised death for sin...spiritual death.
God promised from the point in time of Adam and Eve's fall that He had a deliverance for them. He is so loving that He issues that promise to them before issuing their curses.
God sent Jesus to rescue us from our sinful condition to all who put their hope and faith in this promise. Only a holy God could reverse the curse of sin and restore peace and holiness to humans. You may have heard or read that it was only Jesus/Emmanuel/God with us who could fulfill God's righteous requirements. This has to be the case, because one of the curses is having to live as sinners on earth...how then can a sinner...born with the sinful nature...fulfill God's righteous requirements?
God was in this way so very merciful and gracious to us that He sent His Son, Jesus the Christ to rescue us from this body of sin and God even credits us with righteousness should we believe the testimony of Christ!
In ever increasing joy and thankfulness we also testify to others that they too may share in this peace with God and have the hope of heaven.
Set your sights on this love and on heaven not on "what abouts"...God will take care of the other "what abouts" in due time. He is holy, He is righteous; He is our perfect righteous Judge who alone knows the true hearts of mankind.
If this all sounds like foolishness know that Scripture itself says that to unbelievers it will sound like foolishness, but to all who believe He grants eternal life. (see I Corinthians 1:21 and surrounding verses)
 
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I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?
But people who end up in hell are not innocent. They are guilty of rebellion against God, disobedience to the Gospel, and rejection of Christ who died for them on the Cross. They have blasphemed the blood of Christ by treading it underfoot.
 
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Ligurian

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You may have heard or read that it was only Jesus/Emmanuel/God with us who could fulfill God's righteous requirements. This has to be the case, because one of the curses is having to live as sinners on earth...how then can a sinner...born with the sinful nature...[...](see I Corinthians 1:21 and surrounding verses)

But people who end up in hell are not innocent. They are guilty of rebellion against God, disobedience to the Gospel, and rejection of Christ who died for them on the Cross. They have blasphemed the blood of Christ by treading it underfoot.

Which gospel?
Paul's gospel of grace for the gentiles?
Or the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel?
 
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Which gospel?
Paul's gospel of grace for the gentiles?
Or the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel?
There's only one Gospel, the one Paul preached. Paul said in Galatians that if even an angel of heaven comes preaching a Gospel other than the one he preaches, let that person be accursed.

Paul's Gospel is inspired by the Holy Spirit who was sent by the Father and the Son to lead us into all truth. This means that what Jesus taught to the lost sheep of Israel does not contradict the Gospel that Paul preached. Paul preached the same Gospel in the Jewish synagogues to Jews, as he did in the market places to Gentiles. In his view, there is neither Jew nor Gentile any longer and all are subject to believing the same Gospel - that Jesus suffered and died on the Cross to take away our sin, and He rose again to show that He has the authority to give us eternal life, and to validate His promise that as He rose from the dead, so will we when He comes again. There is no other Gospel that will bring salvation.
 
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Ligurian

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There's only one Gospel, the one Paul preached. Paul said in Galatians that if even an angel of heaven comes preaching a Gospel other than the one he preaches, let that person be accursed.

Paul's Gospel is inspired by the Holy Spirit who was sent by the Father and the Son to lead us into all truth. This means that what Jesus taught to the lost sheep of Israel does not contradict the Gospel that Paul preached. Paul preached the same Gospel in the Jewish synagogues to Jews, as he did in the market places to Gentiles.

Paul is a Benjamite of the House of Judah ...in the still-divided kingdom of Solomon... including Barnabas the Levite, and the Jews of Jerusalem, etc.

But the House of Israel is only the 10-northern-tribes.
Therefore:
"teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance" and "guide you into all truth" is NOT about what Paul taught the gentiles and his fellow Jews.

Because these verses are said to the 12 Disciples
during the Passover Sermon ...which runs from John 13 through John 16...
...and it's totally conditional: John 14:15-17... Keep My Commandments
John 14:25-26... whatsoever I have said unto you... "you" being the 12 Disciples.
John 16:13 ...guide you into all truth... "you" being the 12 Disciples.

Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5-7 only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
And Christ began preaching this Gospel just after John the baptizer was jailed,
in Matthew 4:12, at Matthew 4:23.
And so, this Gospel was prophesied and fulfilled in Galilee:
Isaiah 52:4-7 good news, Sion thy God shall reign = the Gospel of Kingdom of Heaven.

It happened long before Paul came back from Arabia.

No other gospel for the gentiles:
1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(I learned this from Guojing.)

So then, what's preached to the circumcision never went to the gentiles.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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The
Paul is a Benjamite of the House of Judah ...in the still-divided kingdom of Solomon... including Barnabas the Levite, and the Jews of Jerusalem, etc.

But the House of Israel is only the 10-northern-tribes.
Therefore:
"teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance" and "guide you into all truth" is NOT about what Paul taught the gentiles and his fellow Jews.

Because these verses are said to the 12 Disciples
during the Passover Sermon ...which runs from John 13 through John 16...
...and it's totally conditional: John 14:15-17... Keep My Commandments
John 14:25-26... whatsoever I have said unto you... "you" being the 12 Disciples.
John 16:13 ...guide you into all truth... "you" being the 12 Disciples.

Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5-7 only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
And Christ began preaching this Gospel just after John the baptizer was jailed,
in Matthew 4:12, at Matthew 4:23.
And so, this Gospel was prophesied and fulfilled in Galilee:
Isaiah 52:4-7 good news, Sion thy God shall reign = the Gospel of Kingdom of Heaven.

It happened long before Paul came back from Arabia.

No other gospel for the gentiles:
1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(I learned this from Guojing.)

So then, what's preached to the circumcision never went to the gentiles.
You are dividing believers into categories and groups where they are only one people...true believers. There are only geographical differences. All Christians are of only one body. There is no longer Jew nor Gentile...we are all Christians.
See John 10:14-18. The Jews and Gentiles that listened and obeyed the Gospel are of one flock.
 
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Ligurian

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Paul is a Benjamite of the House of Judah ...in the still-divided kingdom of Solomon... including Barnabas the Levite, and the Jews of Jerusalem, etc.

But the House of Israel is only the 10-northern-tribes.
Therefore:
"teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance" and "guide you into all truth" is NOT about what Paul taught the gentiles and his fellow Jews.

Because these verses are said to the 12 Disciples
during the Passover Sermon ...which runs from John 13 through John 16...
...and it's totally conditional: John 14:15-17... Keep My Commandments
John 14:25-26... whatsoever I have said unto you... "you" being the 12 Disciples.
John 16:13 ...guide you into all truth... "you" being the 12 Disciples.

Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5-7 only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
And Christ began preaching this Gospel just after John the baptizer was jailed,
in Matthew 4:12, at Matthew 4:23.
And so, this Gospel was prophesied and fulfilled in Galilee:
Isaiah 52:4-7 good news, Sion thy God shall reign = the Gospel of Kingdom of Heaven.

It happened long before Paul came back from Arabia.

No other gospel for the gentiles:
1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(I learned this from Guojing.)

So then, what's preached to the circumcision never went to the gentiles.

All Christians are of only one body. There is no longer Jew nor Gentile...we are all Christians.
See John 10:14-18.
The Jews and Gentiles that listened and obeyed the Gospel are of one flock.
(1 Corinthians 14:6, to you, Ephesians 3:8, gentiles, Romans 11:13)

Which "Jews and Gentiles...listened and obeyed"? ...ALL OF THIS:

John 10:24-26 [24] ...the Jews...* [26] But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.*

Matthew 10:2-7 [5] These Twelve Ιησους sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go NOT into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

John 6:43-46 Ιησους therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.[44] No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.[45] It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught by God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned from the Father, cometh unto Me.
helkuo = probably akin to haireomai; to drag (literally or figuratively):--draw.
haireomai = to take for oneself, to prefer:--choose.

Jeremiah 3:2-3 Lift up thine eyes to look straight forward, and see where thou hast not been utterly defiled. Thou hast sat for them by the wayside as a deserted crow, and hast defiled the land with thy fornications and thy wickedness.[3] And thou didst retain many shepherds for a stumbling-block to thyself: thou hadst a harlot’s face, thou didst become shameless toward all.LXX
=
Matthew 23:8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master: Christ; and all ye are brethren.[9] And call no man your father upon the Earth: for one is your Father, which is in Heaven.[10] Neither be ye called teachers: for one is your Teacher: Christ.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.
=
John 17:9-20 I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine. ...[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word. (John 15:26-27)

John 17:6-8 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were and Thou gavest them Me and they have kept Thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.

____________________
* The House of Judah IS NOT the House of Israel, because Solomon's kingdom is still divided today... and it will be divided until the day of Jezreal, Hosea 1:11.
* Matthew 15:22 = Zechariah 11:11 "Chananites, the sheep that are kept for Me."LXX ... ... (American means living in America, not aboriginal.)
 
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TedT

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A point to contemplate is that God created humans...Adam and Eve...sinless and in God's image. They fell into temptation though forewarned by God against sin.

I fully agree...but I consider that IF this is the perfect way to create new people, especially those to be HIS Bride, then this is the way HE would create every person able to be HIS bride, that is, every person created in HIS image must have been created this way.

I have come to realize that the fact that the full story of GOD's interaction with man on this earth ends with a heavenly marriage implies that the heavenly marriage was HIS purpose for our creation. It is in the heavenly marriage that HIS GLORY shines forth the strongest and most perfect in relationship with us, NOT in justice nor redemption which are merely aids to bring the marriage to fruition after to our moral stumbles.

HIS plan for all creation was the heavenly marriage.
HIS plan for each of us is the heavenly marriage.
Everything HE has ever done or will ever do conformed to this purpose, this plan, and He has never done anything that would slow this plan down or put it off or side track it in the least!

This concept implies that ALL of HIS being, all of HIS Sovereignty, all of HIS love, HIS righteousness and HIS nature has just have one perfect focus, to culminate HIS relationship with HIS creation in the heavenly marriage: one plan, one focus.

Therefore:
Our free will is an absolute necessity.
Aside from the fact that GOD cannot create any evil so all sinfulness proves the free will of the sinner, it is also a fact that true love and true marriage can be arrived at only by the free will acceptance of the lover and acceptance of the proposal of marriage by the Bride. GOD is not a Borg willing to have a Stepford wife...

This implies that GOD would never not save anyone who could be saved to become HIS Bride, not for any reason. No one is in hell who can be saved by any 'IF' in reality... This also implies that only those who chose to eternally reject HIM as GOD and husband by a deep desire not to be involved in HIS plan would ever be passed over for entry into the marriage because they have a right to their free will decisions to choose such a path.

It implies that everyone ever created in HIS image, ie, able to be a proper Bride for HIM, was created perfectly capable and able to become HIS bride, not held back by any imperfection or lack of acceptance by HIM.
Isaiah 43:7, 21
7 "whom I created for my glory"
21 the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.

Ecc 7:29 Only this have I found: I have discovered that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.”
Upright: S3477, yashar, straightforward, just, upright:... GOD created no one disgustingly corrupt, enslaved to sin and unable to be HIS Bride.

By their coming into being everyone must have been within HIS plan, not separated from HIM by anything until they decide by their informed free will to reject HIM and HIS plan. HE cannot marry an evil person so why would HE create by any means, any system at all, evil people? It is impossible.
 
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TedT

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Which gospel?
Paul's gospel of grace for the gentiles?
Or the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel?
Worldly differences are meaningless...there is only one group of sinners saved from their sinfulness and redeemed to GOD: HIS legitimate children [Hebrews 12:8 contrasted with Deuteronomy 32:5 They have dealt corruptly with him; they are not his children, [it is] their blemish. They are a perverse and crooked generation.] who have been chosen / elected for salvation if ever needed, predestined to be HIS heavenly Bride.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I fully agree...but I consider that IF this is the perfect way to create new people, especially those to be HIS Bride, then this is the way HE would create every person able to be HIS bride, that is, every person created in HIS image must have been created this way.

I have come to realize that the fact that the full story of GOD's interaction with man on this earth ends with a heavenly marriage implies that the heavenly marriage was HIS purpose for our creation. It is in the heavenly marriage that HIS GLORY shines forth the strongest and most perfect in relationship with us, NOT in justice nor redemption which are merely aids to bring the marriage to fruition after to our moral stumbles.

HIS plan for all creation was the heavenly marriage.
HIS plan for each of us is the heavenly marriage.
Everything HE has ever done or will ever do conformed to this purpose, this plan, and He has never done anything that would slow this plan down or put it off or side track it in the least!

This concept implies that ALL of HIS being, all of HIS Sovereignty, all of HIS love, HIS righteousness and HIS nature has just have one perfect focus, to culminate HIS relationship with HIS creation in the heavenly marriage: one plan, one focus.

Therefore:
Our free will is an absolute necessity.
Aside from the fact that GOD cannot create any evil so all sinfulness proves the free will of the sinner, it is also a fact that true love and true marriage can be arrived at only by the free will acceptance of the lover and acceptance of the proposal of marriage by the Bride. GOD is not a Borg willing to have a Stepford wife...

This implies that GOD would never not save anyone who could be saved to become HIS Bride, not for any reason. No one is in hell who can be saved by any 'IF' in reality... This also implies that only those who chose to eternally reject HIM as GOD and husband by a deep desire not to be involved in HIS plan would ever be passed over for entry into the marriage because they have a right to their free will decisions to choose such a path.

It implies that everyone ever created in HIS image, ie, able to be a proper Bride for HIM, was created perfectly capable and able to become HIS bride, not held back by any imperfection or lack of acceptance by HIM.
Isaiah 43:7, 21
7 "whom I created for my glory"
21 the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.

Ecc 7:29 Only this have I found: I have discovered that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.”
Upright: S3477, yashar, straightforward, just, upright:... GOD created no one disgustingly corrupt, enslaved to sin and unable to be HIS Bride.

By their coming into being everyone must have been within HIS plan, not separated from HIM by anything until they decide by their informed free will to reject HIM and HIS plan. HE cannot marry an evil person so why would HE create by any means, any system at all, evil people? It is impossible.
Yet as Ecclesiastes states mankind sought out many schemes...they went astray.
And...
Romans 3:10-18:
10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes."

I Peter 2:9-11:
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul.

Therefore God sent His Son, Jesus the Christ and all who put their faith in Him shall never fall...
Romans 3:21-25:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. ...
and finally...
Mark 16:15-16:
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
and..
John 3:18-19:
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Faith is the condition of salvation and righteousness of Christ is imputed unto these believers...
Romans 3:21-23:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
 
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Ligurian

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Which gospel?
Paul's gospel of grace for the gentiles?
Or the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel?

Worldly differences are meaningless...there is only one group of sinners saved from their sinfulness and redeemed to GOD: HIS legitimate children [Hebrews 12:8 contrasted with Deuteronomy 32:5 They have dealt corruptly with him; they are not his children, [it is] their blemish. They are a perverse and crooked generation.] who have been chosen / elected for salvation if ever needed, predestined to be HIS heavenly Bride.
Both Saul of Tarsus(Benjamite) and Barnabas of Cyprus(Levite) are from the House of Judah--of Solomon's divided kingdom--and Tertullian says Barnabas wrote Hebrews.

----------------------------------
Who considers a person that...
went to jail, and was released
...still guilty of their crime?
----------------------------------

Because that's what happened here:

Jeremiah 3:8-12 ...wherein the House of Israel committed adultery, and I put her away and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement ...[12] Go and read these words toward the north and thou shalt say, Return to Me, O House of Israel, saith the Lord, and I will not set My face against you for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.LXX
Hosea 1:6-9 Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the House of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them. ...[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people and I am not your God.
Hosea 2:1-23 [19] And I will betroth thee to Myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to Myself in righteousness and in judgment, and in mercy and in tender compassions.[20] And I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness, and thou shalt know the Lord. ...[23] And I will sow her to Me on the Earth and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people: and they shall say, Thou art the Lord My God.LXX
Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me, and I was chastened. I, as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord My God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me: for because My words are in him, I will surely remember him: therefore I made haste to help him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

______________________________
So... The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel... given by the Father (Deuteronomy 18:18-19, Isaiah 52:4-7) when He sent Ιησους only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel (Matthew 15:24, John 17:6-8, Matthew 10:5-7).
 
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Chriliman

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I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?

my best guess as to how a loving God could allow eternal suffering is if those who experience eternal suffering do so because they’ve convinced themselves that Gods love is evil. however, I would think this would cause an all knowing God to suffer eternally as well, which is a reason to think hell is temporary purification. Or maybe being separated from God also means being separated from his knowledge of you?

also the idea that Jesus died and went to hell to free the captives there-was he only freeing some or all-or only freeing those who are being imprisoned unjustly by others in hell?
 
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Aryeh Jay

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But people who end up in hell are not innocent. They are guilty of rebellion against God, disobedience to the Gospel, and rejection of Christ who died for them on the Cross. They have blasphemed the blood of Christ by treading it underfoot.

So much for free will then, huh? Ether accept the so called free gift or you get fed to the eternal wood chipper. Really sounds like a god of love.

And another thing, Christ died for them, yet Christ is a God and cannot die, so really, what sacrifice was made?

Sounds like a billionaire living you a $5 trip and wants you to think it's something.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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So much for free will then, huh? Ether accept the so called free gift or you get fed to the eternal wood chipper. Really sounds like a god of love.

And another thing, Christ died for them, yet Christ is a God and cannot die, so really, what sacrifice was made?

Sounds like a billionaire living you a $5 trip and wants you to think it's something.
Actually reading the Bible and studying what it says will clear all that up.
 
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RileyG

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I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?
God does not condemn anyone to hell. People condemn themselves to hell.
 
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