The Modern State of Israel...

klutedavid

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In the video below former Dispensationalist Pastor Steve Gregg speaks about the modern State of Israel, and its influence on the teaching of Bible Prophecy during the last 200 years.

Interesting, thanks.
 
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public hermit

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He's right. The idea that Israel should be supported by Christians, no matter what they do, is based in a hermeneutical error. All one has to do is read the prophets, or the Penteteuch for that matter. God certainly didn't support Israel, no matter what they did. And there's no reason to think that changed all the sudden with the formation of the modern state. God is no respecter of persons, or nations. The modern state of Israel is just that. Dispensationalism has probably done as much to confuse national identity and faith as has the political right.
 
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ZNP

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He grew up with Dispensational theology and has since moved towards covenant theology.

Since then he has seen many of the foibles of the dispensationalists.

He goes after the crown jewel of the dispensational theology, they said that the nation of Israel would be reformed 40 years before it was. He attributes some of the credit to Israel being reformed to the Dispensationalists themselves pushing for Israel to be reformed.

I think one of the points he made was somewhat muddled. He said that the Jews who followed Jesus were the Jews who were keeping their covenant they made with God. I agree with the broad interpretation that Abraham had children according to the flesh and also according to the promise. However, the covenant God made with the Jews is an eternal covenant, not a temporary covenant. The New Testament is a new covenant, it is a superior covenant, but it doesn't annul the previous covenant.

He also says there is no Biblical mandate for Israel to be in the land they are now in. He does this by saying that if a prophesy is fulfilled once, it doesn't have to be fulfilled twice. So yes, there are promises by God to give Abraham this land, and Moses describes the boundaries of the land that God gives them, but according to Him since that was fulfilled once then it is done. I would disagree with that as well, as Moses says if you don't keep the covenant I will dispossess you from the land, but then if you repent I'll bring you back.
 
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BABerean2

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He grew up with Dispensational theology and has since moved towards covenant theology.

Since then he has seen many of the foibles of the dispensationalists.

He goes after the crown jewel of the dispensational theology, they said that the nation of Israel would be reformed 40 years before it was. He attributes some of the credit to Israel being reformed to the Dispensationalists themselves pushing for Israel to be reformed.

The proof is found in the video below, where Jacob Rothschild explains how his family created the modern State of Israel.

Never during the interview does Rothschild use the word "God".



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Rachel20

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ZNP

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A question I have asked before.

Where in the Bible does it say that God rewards those who do not obey him?
There are 7 major categories of blessings to the covenant God made with Abraham. These 7 blessings are the underlying structure of the books of Moses. Paul arranges the book of Ephesians to present these 7 blessings to us in our New Covenant. I cover all of this in my blog on the book of Ephesians. Each chapter of Ephesians covers one of these blessings with chapter 6 covering the last two.
 
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ZNP

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Can you provide us with a link to your blog?

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It is on this forum, "Blogs by ZNP", The blog is called "How the New Testament Books fit together" you will find 6 entries on the six chapters of Ephesians.
 
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keras

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Edom has been in Jewry since the days of forced conversions under John Hyrcanus. It's no reason for the church to see all of modern-day Israel as Esau. Scripture suggests God has always had a remnant.

HYRCANUS, JOHN (JOHANAN) I. - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Yes, the people who call themselves Jews, Israelis; are a mixed racial group, most of whom have no direct descent from Judah.
But still scattered around the world is a vast multitude of people who do have Israelite ancestry, from all of the 12 sons of Jacob. God knows who they are, Amos 9:8-9, and the Day is coming when they will all be gathered and those Christians will enter all of the holy Land. Those who revolt and rebel will not. Ezekiel 20:34-38
 
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ZNP

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So how many people here knows what the modern state of Israel is in the Bible?
You should know what it is.
Ezek. 20:33-38; 33 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I will reign over you with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath. 34 I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered—with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath. 35 I will bring you into the wilderness of the nations and there, face to face, I will execute judgment upon you. 36 As I judged your ancestors in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will judge you, declares the Sovereign Lord. 37 I will take note of you as you pass under my rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant. 38 I will purge you of those who revolt and rebel against me. Although I will bring them out of the land where they are living, yet they will not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

22:17-22; 17 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 18 “Son of man, the people of Israel have become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. 19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: ‘Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 As silver, copper, iron, lead and tin are gathered into a furnace to be melted with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. 21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the Lord have poured out my wrath on you.’”

36:22-24; 22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes. 24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
 
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keras

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So how many people here knows what the modern state of Israel is in the Bible?
You should know what it is.
Jesus told us who they belong to; Revelation 3:9, John 8:42-47
 
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Tolworth John

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There are 7 major categories of blessings to the covenant God made with Abraham. These 7 blessings are the underlying structure of the books of Moses. Paul arranges the book of Ephesians to present these 7 blessings to us in our New Covenant. I cover all of this in my blog on the book of Ephesians. Each chapter of Ephesians covers one of these blessings with chapter 6 covering the last two.

Yes and every single one is linked to obedience.
 
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BABerean2

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We find the shadow below in the Old Testament.

Gen_22:2 Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

......................................................

Who was the greatest mountain climber who ever lived?

He climbed a hill that only person could climb.
It was for this purpose that He was born.

That mountain is called Calvary...

.
 
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