The Modern Era Scientist don't help me, but I still have my faith in God

[ruthiesea]

Suppose it turns out that Allah is the real and true God?

Allah, the Arabic word for god, is the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That is, the same god worshipped by Jews and Christian’s.

 

[Opdrey]

Allah, the Arabic word for god, is the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That is, the same god worshipped by Jews and Christian’s.

That is definitely what we are told and indeed Mohammed would have leveraged Yahweh for Allah. I think the issue becomes how Yahweh-Allah consider your salvation.

Yahweh apparently requires that you believe that Jesus died for your sins as the key to salvation (and church doctrine demands that Jesus be of the same substance, homoousios, with God). I think that might be rather different from Islam which prides itself on being a monotheistic religion without that sort of Trinitarian caveat.

I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on Islam.

At that point if Yahweh IS Allah he seems to be doing business under a different name with different deals for the customers. And extra costs for those who shop at his other store.

 

[AV1611VET]

At that point if Yahweh IS Allah he seems to be doing business under a different name with different deals for the customers. And extra costs for those who shop at his other store.

Mohammad taught a threefold redemption plan:

1. The prophet Moses was to take the gentiles and make them Jews.
2. The prophet Jesus was to take the gentiles and Jews and make them Christians.
3. The prophet Mohammad was to take the gentiles, Jews, and Christians and make them Muslims.

That's why Mohammad was friendly to Christians -- at first.

But when the Christians refused to convert to Islam, the gloves came off and Mohammad's convert-or-die doctrine became a reality.

Allah was the primary deity of the Quraysh tribe; the tribe Mohammad was from.

 

[Opdrey]

But when the Christians refused to convert to Islam, the gloves came off and Mohammad's convert-or-die doctrine became a reality.

Sounds like the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sounds like the Spanish Inquisition.

History repeats itself, doesn't it?

 

[Opdrey]

History repeats itself, doesn't it?

Yeah and it shows that no matter which religion people tend to maltreat people who don't believe in their faith.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah and it shows that no matter which religion people tend to maltreat people who don't believe in their faith.

Always done in spite of the Bible though, not with respect to It.

 

[Opdrey]

Always done in spite of the Bible though, not with respect to It.

I would dearly love to see you debating with a member of the Spanish Inquisition over whether his faith is less strong than yours.

 

[jayem]

Along with the Bible, I have a copy of The Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price in my library. Don't forget that the LDS god (who's called God the Father, or Elohim) was a human being who became exalted and perfected. And still has a physical body. Elohim is one of 3 parts of the Godhead. The other 2 are Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Jesus also has a physical body, and at Elohim's direction, created the Earth and other worlds. The resurrected Jesus came to America to teach and perform miracles. The Holy Ghost is a spirit being, who looks like a man. As I recall, he's a sort of divine guide who's job is to show people the way to spiritual enlightenment.

Personally, I don't believe any religious doctrine that invokes supernatural entities. But I've always liked mythology. I've also read Edith Hamilton. And parts of the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, Plato's Dialogues of Socrates, and the Analects of Confucius (these last 2 are more philosophy than religion.) But after the classical Greek myths, I think Mormon scripture is my second favorite. It's such a highly creative take on traditional Christianity.

It's an indisputable fact that people have worshiped so many different gods throughout history. Doesn't that argue against the existence of one and only one god? If a single, true, universal, and omnipotent god--who desired a relationship with humankind--really existed, why would so many false gods and deceptive religions be allowed to exist? It makes no logical sense.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would dearly love to see you debating with a member of the Spanish Inquisition over whether his faith is less strong than yours.

How long do you think they'd let me live?

 

[AV1611VET]

The other 2 are Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

And Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, according to them ... right?

 

[AV1611VET]

It's an indisputable fact that people have worshiped so many different gods throughout history. Doesn't that argue against the existence of one and only one god?

It most certainly does.

It's called "idolatry," and idolatry is a sin.

It violates the First Commandment.

The sixty-four dollar term for it is "diabolical mimicry."

 

[durangodawood]

So you reject things you do believe exist?

Yes, thats how it works, typically.

Its like sending back a plate of food because its cold or something.

 

[Opdrey]

It most certainly does.

It's called "idolatry," and idolatry is a sin.

It violates the First Commandment.

The sixty-four dollar term for it is "diabolical mimicry."

Actually "diabolical mimicry" was an idea come up with by Iraneaus and Justin Martyr as well as a few others, some early church fathers, to explain away the similarities between Jesus' story and various other pagan gods who had existed before that had similar stories (Mithras, Isis, Osiris-Dionysis) if I am remembering correctly.

Obviously people in the early history of Christianity would be familiar with various pagan gods who had been "born of a virgin" and/or been sacrificed and returned from the dead. And these came before Jesus so they had to come up with the idea that Satan had attempted to "anticipate" Jesus birth by making various pagan gods earlier that would have similar stories to Jesus and thus make people not believe in Jesus.

It's a lot more interesting than assuming that the concepts behind Jesus were amalgamated from a variety of pre-existing religions.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually "diabolical mimicry" was an idea come up with by Iraneaus and Justin Martyr as well as a few others, some early church fathers, to explain away the similarities between Jesus' story and various other pagan gods who had existed before that had similar stories (Mithras, Isis, Osiris-Dionysis) if I am remembering correctly.

Obviously people in the early history of Christianity would be familiar with various pagan gods who had been "born of a virgin" and/or been sacrificed and returned from the dead. And these came before Jesus so they had to come up with the idea that Satan had attempted to "anticipate" Jesus birth by making various pagan gods earlier that would have similar stories to Jesus and thus make people not believe in Jesus.

It's a lot more interesting than assuming that the concepts behind Jesus were amalgamated from a variety of pre-existing religions.

You have a background in science, don't you?

 

[jayem]

And Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, according to them ... right?

Yes. As I recall, Jesus was God the Father's first born. Lucifer was a younger brother.

Edited to add: I'm reminded of a book. La Révolte des Anges, The Revolt of the Angels, is an early 20th century novel by the French author, Anatole France. It's about the guardian angel of a wealthy young man, who comes down to Earth to study in the man's extensive library. He reads books on philosophy, history, theology, psychology, and science. He comes to realize that everything he knows about God is upside down. He discovers that God is actually a power-mad minor deity who craves worship and glory for himself. He was opposed by Satan. Who actually loved and wanted to benefit mankind. In the ensuing war, Satan and his angels were defeated and cast into hell. And for all of history, they've been trashed by the imposter who's been posing as a loving god. The guardian angel wants Satan to lead a second revolt, overthrow the fake god, and take his rightful place as the true benefactor of all men and women. But Satan refuses to fight. And says the way to defeat the fraudulent god is by education, When people are guided by reason and scientific knowledge, they will no longer believe the myths, legends, and superstitions which keep the false, tyrannical god in power. Of course, the novel was immediately declared heretical and banned by the RCC. But that didn't keep Anatole France from winning the Nobel Prize for literature.

The Revolt of the Angels by Anatole France

 

[Opdrey]

You have a background in science, don't you?

Yes. Was I incorrect on this topic?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes. As I recall, Jesus was God the Father's first born. Lucifer was a younger brother.

I'll stick with the Bible then.

 

[Opdrey]

...I think Mormon scripture is my second favorite. It's such a highly creative take on traditional Christianity.

I think the thing I find most fascinating about Mormonism is that it is so clearly made up by Smith and we have a lot of information on him...but the faith he created is now old enough that it is kind of an interesting mid point.

If you think about it Christianity has this ancientness which obscures so much of where it came from and the crucible in which it was formed. But it has been around and accepted for so long that it no longer seems "strange" or "unbelievable" in a sense.

Mormonism, being younger and from a time closer to our own, we see the flaws and foibles and the fingerprints of the man and other people responsible for creating it. But it is now long in the tooth and has a large number of people who believe it.

Then you look at Scientology. Something we know is made up from whole cloth by a sci fi author and we know it's bizarre and absurd. But it is slowly amassing a number of believers.

I suspect that someday in about 1000 years Mormonism will be as common as Christianity and will "seem" very much the same and just part of society.

Give it another 1000 years after that and Scientology will be like that as well.

Working backwards it's kind of interesting to apply the model to religions that we all just kind of "accept" as reasonable things on our cultural landscape.

Just a thought.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes. Was I incorrect on this topic?

Let's put it this way:

Yes.

Christianity isn't some eclectic photo blanket.