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Featured The Millennium

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    Review the following prophecy in Zech.12 you have been deceived into believing is past history. It reveals the attack on Jerusalem and Judah is by NATIONS not Romans. It reveals Jerusalem and Judah will be saved, not destroyed, as the Romans did in 70 A.D. It says nothing about any temple. Jesus did not reappear in 70 A.D. to cause all the mourning by Judah and the occupants of Jerusalem!

    New International Version
    Jerusalem’s Enemies to Be Destroyed

    Zech.12:1 A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

    "The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2“I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.5Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

    6“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

    7“The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. 9On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

    Mourning for the One They Pierced

    10“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirita of grace and supplication. They will look onb me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

    Listen carefully! Israel HAS NOT accepted the terms of the New Covenant yet and won't until the second coming of Jesus, as recorded in Zech.12 above!

    Jer.21:31-34 was fulfilled and the Church age began at Pentecost for Jews and Gentiles alike. The nation of Israel rejected Jesus and the New Covenant the Church of Jesus Christ did. The Church IS NOT Istael, which is pure heresy!

  2. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus Supporter

    United States
    There is no yet-future 1,000 year millennium. Passages used for that actually refer to the eternal utopian new heavens and new earth.
  3. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    According to what Christian authority? You have been deceived by false spirits. Review the following Scriptural facts that refute you:

    Scriptures that prove the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ on Earth

    That reveal the heretic teachings of Amillennialism.

    Matthew 19:28--And Jesus said unto them, Truly I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Messieh comes in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Matthew 25:31--When the Messieh shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.

    This coming with power and great glory with his angels is well documented (Matthew 24:30-31). And that he sits on an earthly throne after this coming cannot be disproven. Right now, John saw him on a Throne in heaven. He is there as God and reigns as God on that throne. He has never ceased to be God and there has ever been a Kingdom of God in heaven. He said: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool. But he also said to the Apostles his throne would be upon this earth. He brought this heavenly Kingdom to earth and he will reign here in person as the heir of David's throne in the millennial.

    2Peter 3:8--But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    In verse 7 it appears Apostle Peter had given a prophecy of the very end of the world when it would be destroyed. Then in retrospect of a time before that event he gives us the prophecy of the thousand years and equates it as one day with the Lord. He urges us not to be ignorant of this time frame of a day being equal to a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:4--And I saw thrones, and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,and for the word of God,and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither has received his mark upon their foreheads, or upon their hands; and they lived and reigned with Messieh a thousand years.

    Matthew 25:34--Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come ye blessed of God, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    1Corinthians 6:9--Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, etc. ect.

    Revelation 21:7--They that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be their God, and they shall be my elect.

    Revelation 5:10--And has made us unto God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    Revelation 20:6--Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Messieh, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    It is obvious that the 1,000 years follows the resurrection. It is also obvious the 1,000 years is a time when death has no power over the Saints of God. This can only be after the second coming at which time it is said:

    1Corinthians 15:54--So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    It is further obvious that the 1,000 years is after the first physical resurrection of those dead, after death has no power, that the resurrected Saints reign as Priests of God for one thousand years. The sequence must remain intact and in sequential order. The same 1,000 years the devil is bound is the same 1,000 years those who were martyred for not taking the mark of the beast are physically raised in a resurrection and reign with the Lord.

    To say the 1,000 years runs concurrently or parallel with the Church is to say the physical resurrection of those who were martyred is past. The amillennialist have yet to prove there are resurrected martyrs in the world and have been here since their alleged 1,000 began. Such is demanded if the spiritualization of the 1,000 years as the Church age is correct. Are there many thousands of Saints who already have immortality and are deathless, and that they are now as Priest reigning with Messieh upon the earth?

    The present Ministry of the Church are not reigning and are forbidden to be Lord's over God's heritage. They are nor deathless. And the resurrection and immortality have not come yet because Jesus has not returned. To have immortality here now is to say that Jesus has come already. And if he has, what of their end of the world when he comes. Why are we still here? Why has not the world ended? Please read on now as I bring forth more on this important endtime subject.

    Source: http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/ca ... mill1.html

  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    Go to the modern State of Israel with your DNA kit and find the clan of Levi, and the clan of Shimei, and the rest of the clans.

    Then read the words found below in the New Testament, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, sent down from God.

    1Ti_1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

    Tit_3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

    Jas 1:1  James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 
    Jas 1:2  My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 
    Jas 1:3  Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

  5. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    The subject of this thread is about the Millennium

    Jesus is returning to reign on earth because the Old Testament prophets say so.

    1) The Psalms
    • Psalm 2:6-9 — David says the Messiah will reign over “the very ends of the earth” from Mount Zion in Jerusalem.
    • Psalm 22:27-31 — David again affirms that the Messiah will be given dominion over “the ends of the earth” at the time when He “rules over the nations.”
    • Psalm 47 — The sons of Korah rejoice over the day when the Lord will be “a great King over all the earth,” and they state that this will take place when the Lord subdues the “nations under our feet.”
    • Psalm 67 — An unidentified psalmist speaks prophetically of the time when the nations of the world will “be glad and sing for joy.” This will be when the Lord comes to “judge the peoples with uprightness.” At that time the Lord will “guide the nations on the earth” so that “all the ends of the earth may fear Him.”
    • Psalm 89:19-29 — The psalmist, Ethan, speaks of the Davidic Covenant and proclaims that it will be fulfilled when God makes His “first-born the highest of the kings of the earth.”
    • Psalm 110 — David says a time will come when God will make the enemies of the Messiah a footstool under His feet. This will occur when the Messiah stretches forth His “strong scepter from Zion.” At that time He will “rule in the midst of His enemies,” for… “He will shatter kings in the day of His wrath, He will judge among the nations.”
    • Psalm 132:13-18 — An unnamed psalmist speaks of God’s fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant. He says this will occur at a time when “the horn of David” springs forth to reign from Zion. He says “His crown will shine,” and He will make Zion His “resting place forever” for He will dwell there.
    2) Isaiah
    • Isaiah 2:1-4 — Isaiah says that “in the last days” the Messiah will reign from Mount Zion in Jerusalem and the entire world will experience peace.
    • Isaiah 9:6-7 — The Messiah will rule from the throne of David, giving the world a government of peace, justice, and righteousness. (Note: The throne of David is not in Heaven. It is located in Jerusalem — see Psalm 122. Jesus is not now on the throne of David. He sits at the right hand of His Father on His Father’s throne — see Revelation 3:21.)
    • Isaiah 11:3b-9 — The Messiah will bring “righteousness and fairness” to the earth when He returns to “slay the wicked.” At that time, the curse will be lifted and the plant and animal kingdoms will be restored to their original perfection.
    • Isaiah 24:21-23 — When the Messiah returns, He will punish Satan and his demonic hordes in the heavens and then will punish “the kings of the earth, on earth.” He will then “reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem” for the purpose of manifesting His glory.
    3) Jeremiah
    • Jeremiah 23:5 — “‘Behold, the days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I shall raise up for David a righteous Branch; and He will reign as king and act wisely and do justice and righteousness in the land.'” (Note: The term, “Branch,” is a Messianic title.)
    • Jeremiah 33:6-18 — A day will come when the Lord will regather the dispersed of both Judah and Israel and will save a great remnant. At that time the Lord “will cause a rigthteous Branch of David to spring forth; and He shall execute justice and righteousness on the earth.”
    4) Ezekiel
    • Ezekiel 20:33-44 — The Lord says a day will come when He will regather the Jews to their land and will “enter into judgment” with them. He says that at that time “I shall be king over you.” He then adds that “the whole house of Israel, all of them, will serve Me in the land.”
    • Ezekiel 37:24-28 — The Lord says that He will dwell in the midst of Israel after a remnant of the Jews is regathered to the land and saved, and He promises that “David My servant shall be their prince forever.”
    • Ezekiel 39:21-29 — The Lord says that following the battle of Armageddon (verses 17-20), “I will set My glory among the nations; and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them.”
    • Ezekiel 43:7 — While being given a tour of the future Millennial Temple, Ezekiel is told by the Lord: “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet; where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever.”
    5) Daniel
    • Daniel 7:13-14,18,27 — Daniel says he was given a vision in which he saw the Messiah (“Son of Man”) given dominion over all the earth by God the Father (“the Ancient of Days”). And then he adds in verses 18 and 27 that the kingdom is shared “with the saints of the Highest One,” and they are allowed to exercise sovereignty with Him over “all the kingdoms under the whole heaven.”
    6) Hosea
    • Hosea 3:4-5 — The Jews will be set aside “for many days,” but a time will come “in the last days” when they “will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king.”
    7) Joel
    • Joel 3:14-17,21 — Joel says that following the battle of Armageddon (verses 14-16), the Lord will dwell “in Zion, My holy mountain.” He repeats this in verse 21. And in verse 17 He identifies Zion as the city of Jerusalem.
    8) Micah
    • Micah 4:1-7 — Micah repeats in greater detail the prophecy contained in Isaiah 2. Like Isaiah, he says the Lord will make Jerusalem the capital of the world. The world will be flooded with peace and prosperity. All believing Jews will be regathered to Israel, and “the Lord will reign over them in Mount Zion.”
    9) Zephaniah
    • Zephaniah 3:14-20 — This entire book is devoted to a description of the day the Lord will return to the earth in vengeance. The prophet says that at the end of that day, when the Lord’s enemies have been destroyed, the Jewish remnant will shout in triumphant joy because “the King of Israel, the Lord,” will be in their midst.
    10) Haggai
    • Haggai 2:20-23 — The Lord says that a day will come when He will “overthrow the thrones of kingdoms and destroy the power of the kingdoms of the nations.” Then, using Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, as a type of the Messiah, the prophet adds: “‘On that day,’ declares the Lord of hosts, ‘I will take you, Zerubbabel, son of Shealtiel, my servant,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will make you like a signet ring, for I have chosen you,’ declares the Lord of hosts.” The reference to the signet ring means the Father will grant His Son ruling authority.
    11) Zechariah
    • Zechariah 2:10-13 — The Lord says that when He comes, He will “dwell in the midst” of the Jews, possessing Judah as “His portion in the holy land” and again choosing Jerusalem.
    • Zechariah 6:12-13 — When the Messiah (“the Branch”) returns, He will build a temple and “rule on His throne,” and the offices of priest and king will be combined in Him. Thus, “He will be a priest on His throne.”
    • Zechariah 8:2-3 — The Lord promises that when He returns to Zion, He will “dwell in the midst of Jerusalem,” and Jerusalem will be called “the city of Truth.”<
    • Zechariah 9:10 — The Messiah will bring peace to the nations and “His dominion will be from sea to sea.”
    • Zechariah 14:1-9 — The Messiah will return to the Mount of Olives. The Mount will split in half when His foot touches it, and the Jewish remnant left alive in Jerusalem will flee the city and hide in the cleavage of the Mount. Verse 9 says that on that day, “the Lord will become king over all the earth.”
    Jesus is returning to reign over the earth because the New Testament prophets say so.

    1) Peter
    • Acts 3:21 — In his sermon on the portico of Solomon, Peter says Jesus must remain in Heaven “until the period of the restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.” The period of restoration spoken of here will occur during the Millennium when the curse is partially lifted and nature is restored (Romans 8:18-23).
    2) Paul
    • 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 — Paul says that when Jesus returns “dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel,” He will also come for the purpose of being glorified before His saints. The return of Jesus to be glorified before His saints and all the nations of the world is one of the persistent themes of Old Testament prophecy (Isaiah 24:23, Isaiah 52:10,13, Isaiah 61:3, and Psalm 46:10).
    • 2 Timothy 2:12 — Paul says “if we endure, we shall also reign with Him.”
    3) John
    • Revelation 12:5 — John sees a vision in which a sun clothed woman (Israel) gives birth to a male child (Jesus) “who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.”
    • Revelation 19:15-16 — In his description of Jesus returning to earth, John says He bears the title, “King of kings and Lord of lords,” and John says He will “rule the nations with a rod of iron.”
    • Revelation 20:4,6 — John says that after the return of Jesus to the earth, He will reign with His saints (“those to whom judgment has been given”) for a thousand years.
    Jesus is returning to earth to reign because the Heavenly Host say so.

    1) Gabriel
    • Luke 1:26-38 — When the archangel Gabriel appeared to Mary, he told her that she would bear a son named Jesus who would be called “the Son of the Most High.” He then added three promises that are yet to be fulfilled: “the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and His kingdom will have no end.”
    2) The Four Living Creatures and the 24 Elders
    • Revelation 5:9-10 — When John is raptured to Heaven and finds himself standing before the throne of God (Revelation 4), he hears “the four living creatures” (special angelic creatures called seraphim in Isaiah 6) and “the twenty-four elders” (probably representative of the redeemed) singing a song of praise to Jesus. In this song they say that Jesus is a Worthy Lamb who has made His redeemed a kingdom, “and they will reign upon the earth.”
    3) The Angels of God
    • Revelation 11:15 — Voices from Heaven make a proleptic proclamation in the midst of the Tribulation: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” (Note: A proleptic statement is one that speaks of a future event as if it has already occurred. This is a common form of expression in prophecy because all future events are settled in the mind of God as if they had already happened in history.)
    4) The Tribulation Martyrs
    • Revelation 15:3-4 — At the end of the Tribulation, right before the final pouring out of God’s wrath in the form of the bowl judgments, all the Tribulation martyrs who are in Heaven join together in singing “the song of Moses… and the song of the Lamb.” In that song, they declare the Lamb (Jesus) to be the “King of the nations,” and they proclaim that “all the nations will come and worship before Thee.”
    Jesus is returning to reign on the earth because Jesus said so.
    • Matthew 19:28 — Jesus said that during “the regeneration” (the same time as “the period of restoration” referred to by Peter in Acts 3:21), He will “sit on His glorious throne,” and the Apostles will join Him in judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    • Matthew 25:31 — Jesus said that when He returns in glory, “the Son of Man… will sit on His glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before Him” for judgment. The throne of Jesus is the throne of David which has always been located in only one place — in Jerusalem (see Isaiah 9:6-7 and Psalm 122).
    • Acts 1:3-6 — Luke says that Jesus spent 40 days teaching His disciples about the kingdom of God. Then, as He was ready to ascend into Heaven, one of the disciples asked, “Lord is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” The question indicates that Jesus taught a time would come when the kingdom would be restored to Israel. Jesus’ response to the question indicated the same thing. He did not rebuke the question. Rather, He simply said it was not for them to know the times and seasons when the kingdom would be restored to Israel.
    • Revelation 2:26-27 — Jesus says that He has a special reward for any “overcomer” who keeps His deeds until the end: “To him I will give authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron.”
    • Revelation 3:21 — Jesus makes it clear that the overcomers will reign jointly with Him: “He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” Again, the throne of Jesus is the throne of David (Luke 1:32 and Revelation 3:7). The throne of David is in Jerusalem, not in Heaven (Psalm 122). Jesus currently shares His Father’s throne. He is not sitting on His own throne and will not do so until He returns to this earth. Then He will allow the redeemed to share His throne with Him.

    From: http://christinprophecy.org/articles/th ... g-to-reign

  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter


    Your definition of "forever" must be different from the one found in the dictionary.

    The Zion that will last "forever" is found below.

    Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 
    Heb 12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
    Heb 12:24  And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 

  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    This is the kind of invective that one would expect from a cult.

    Justin Martyr (100 - 165 AD) would agree:

    "I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion [i.e., premillennialism], and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise."

    He was referring to amils, characterizing them as true Christians.

    Martyr would unconditionally condemn dispensationalism's cultic ravings.
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  8. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    New Covenant theology - Fact or fiction"

    A widely distributed Christian magazine published an article concerning Israel a number of years ago. The following are quotes from that article:

    “It is a mistake for Christians to exalt Israelis to the position of being ‘God’s chosen people.’”

    “The progressive revelation of Scripture makes it clear that, today, God has only one people, and it is the church.”

    “We must not apply Old Testament prophecies to the State of Israel when Jesus, Peter and Paul have radically redirected our thinking concerning the covenants of promise. They are now directly to the Church.”

    “The Israeli claim to Palestine as a Jewish State by divine right is incorrect, and their continued enforcement of this claim by military oppression is unjust.”

    These statements are typical of what is taught in “replacement theology.” Replacement theology teaches, “The Church is Israel”. How is this substitution possible? Covenant theologians claim that because the nation of Israel did not accept Jesus as Messiah, she has been cast off and has forfeited her pre-eminent position in the purposes of God. The Church has become the rightful heir to the blessings once promised to Israel. From God’s perspective the Jewish people today are no more significant than any other racial group, whether it be Italian, Indian or Chinese. Unless the Jews repent, come to faith in Jesus and join the Church, they have no future.

    The term “replacement theology” isn’t found in most theological textbooks, although the idea that “the Church is Israel” is a foundation stone in what is commonly known as “covenant theology”. This teaching has dominated the history of Christian theology as well as the present day.

    Replacement theology isn’t new; it can be traced as far back as the 3rd century. How did it enter Christian thought and come to dominate a significant portion of Church teaching? We will explore this in the following points:

    1. First, replacement theology is the natural by-product of allegorization, a of method scriptural interpretation employed by the Church for much of its history.
    2. Second, replacement theology appears backed by history.
    3. Third, replacement theology appears logical and consistent with God’s character of justice.
    Replacement theology teaches that “the Church is Israel” How is this belief able to receive acceptance? Easily, if the scriptures are studied according to the method of interpretation known as allegorization.

    What do I mean by allegorization? A person who “allegorizes” a passage of scripture is less concerned with what the words mean literally, than he is concerned with what is the hidden meaning behind those words. To allegorize is to interpret a scripture analyzing every detail as symbolic of underlying, deeper “spiritual” meanings.

    For a historic example of an allegorical interpretation of a Bible passage, let’s look at Matthew 21, Yeshua’s triumphal entry from the Mount of Olives to Jerusalem upon a donkey and a colt. At the beginning of the 3rd century, one of the most famous Church fathers, Origen, looked at this passage of scripture and came up with an interesting interpretation. Origen taught that the donkey in the story symbolized the harshness of the Old Testament, while the colt or foal of a donkey (a more gentle animal) was symbolic of the New Testament. In addition to this interpretation, he added that the two apostles who brought the animals to Yeshua symbolized the moral senses of humanity.

    As questionable as this method of interpretation may be considered today, by the 3rd century, allegorization of the Scriptures was a dominant method of interpretation by Christian teachers. This method prevailed throughout the Middle Ages.

    If through allegorization one can determine that a donkey is the Old Testament, then it is possible to come to the conclusion that the “Church is Israel”. The allegorical method suspends literal interpretation of the Bible, allowing the theologian to make the Bible say nearly anything he wants it to say.

    Eventually the allegorical method of interpretation was shown for what it is – dangerous and deceptive. By the 16th century, Martin Luther and other Protestant reformers began to question the validity of allegorization. They argued that the general rule is to interpret the Bible according to its literal meaning, with few exceptions. Literal interpretation of scripture requires that rules of grammar, speech, syntax and context are followed, to regard historical accounts and prophecies as literal even if expressed in poetic or figurative language.

    How can we be sure that interpreting the Bible literally is the best method? One argument is that hundreds of Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled literally, even to minute detail.

    Consider a few predictions regarding the Messiah:

    • Isaiah 7:14 predicted the Messiah would be born of a virgin.
    • Micah 5:2 predicted that He would be born in Bethlehem.
    • Psalm 22:7-8 and Isaiah 53:1 predicted He would face the ridicule and unbelief of the people.
    • Psalm 22:16-18 predicted that His hands and feet would be pierced and that His clothing would be divided and lots cast for them.
    • Isaiah 53:9-10 predicted He would be put to death with wicked men yet buried with the rich, and that He would prolong His days (resurrection) afterward.
    If prophecies in the Old Testament concerning Yeshua were fulfilled literally, shouldn’t the logical expectation be that Bible prophecy concerning Israel and the Jewish people will also be literally fulfilled? Those who teach replacement theology stubbornly insist that prophecy concerning Israel is fulfilled “symbolically” and “spiritually” by the Church. The result is the annulment of all prophetic scripture that pertains to Israel.

    A pertinent question arises, “Has the Church in her history ever been scattered and exiled among the nations as the prophets foretold?”
    Did the prophet Ezekiel really have the Church in mind when he stated “... they will live in their own land, which I gave to My servant Jacob.”?Ezekiel 28:25

    The conclusion that “the Church is Israel” is to interpret scripture allegorically, not literally. In answer to the first question, “How did replacement theology ever come to dominate the teaching of the Church?” – it is the natural outcome of allegorization.

    Source: Site moved.

  9. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

    Actually, there is.

    "till the thousand years should be fulfilled:..But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired," -Rev. 20:3,5-7 (KJV)

    It says, "reign with Him for a thousand years". A thousand years is what?

    A millennium?

    Deny it all you wish, but there it is in black and white, from the scriptures.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
  10. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus Supporter

    United States
    I said yet-future 1,000 years. It already happened.
  11. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

    That's funny.

    Has Jesus ruled on His throne here on earth for a thousand years yet?


    Has the great white throne judgment happened yet?


    Has satan been bound yet?


    Has all eschatology happened yet?


    Like I said, your funny.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    We're interested to see the literal interpretation of Scripture's very first prophecy, Genesis 3:15.
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    The source mentioned the New Covenant and then ignored it in the rest of the article.

    Because the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
    Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant Church, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart.

    The true source of "Replacement Theology" replaces the One Seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.
    It replaces the children of the Promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.
    It ignores Peter addressing the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.
    It ignores Paul identifying himself as an Israelite in Romans 11:1.
    It pretends that the Church is a "Gentile Church", even though during the first few years of the Church almost all of its members were Israelites.

    The Israelites were most certainly "God's chosen people", based on Matthew 1:1.
    They were chosen to produce the Messiah.

    Do the "chosen people" include the following groups?

    Those who followed Korah in rebellion against Moses and were swallowed by the earth?

    Those who worshipped Baal during the time of Elijah?

    Those alive today who descend from Abraham, but have rejected God's Son? (1 John 2:22-23)

    If you are going to post a source, at least find one that has a name on it.
    We have no idea where this came from.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  14. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    When God's chosen people, Israel, rejected Jesus as their Messiah, they rejected the New Covenant of Grace God, He established, because of that. To allow Gentiles the gift of salvation through belief in God's only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. The basis and foundation of the New Covenant. A different group of people from that of Israel. All of them, believers in Jesus Christ, who become members of His body, His Church. The Church is not Israel and never will be.

    Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah when Jesus returns in His second coming, in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5, fulfilling the prophecy of Jer.31:31-34, the New Covenant.

    Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel?

    This topic is one of the more controversial in the Church today, and it has significant implications regarding the way we interpret Scripture, especially concerning the end times. More importantly, it has great significance in that it affects the way we understand the very nature and character of God Himself.

    Romans 11:16-36 records the illustration of the olive tree. This passage speaks of Israel the (“natural” branches) being broken off from the olive tree, and the Church (“wild” branches or shoots) being grafted into the olive tree. Since Israel is referred to as branches, as well as the Church, it stands to reason that neither group is the “whole tree,” so to speak; rather, the whole tree represents God’s workings with mankind as a whole. Therefore, God’s program with Israel and God’s program with the Church are part of the outworking of His purpose among men in general. Of course, this is not intended to mean that either program is of little significance. As many commentators have noted, more space is given in the Bible regarding God’s programs with Israel and with the Church than any of God’s other dealings!

    In Genesis 12, God promised Abraham that he would be the father of a great nation (the Jews), the Jews would possess a land, that nation would be blessed above all other nations, and all other nations would be blessed from Israel. So, from the beginning God revealed that Israel would be His chosen people on the earth, but that His blessing would not be limited to them exclusively. Galatians 3:14 identifies the nature of the blessing to come to all the other nations: “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” All the nations of the world were blessed by Israel, through whom the Savior of the world came.

    God’s plan of redemption is built upon the finished work of Jesus Christ, a descendant of David and Abraham. But Christ’s death on the cross is sufficient for the sins of the entire world, not just the Jews! Galatians 3:6-8 states, “Consider Abraham: ‘He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’ Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’” Finally, Galatians 3:29 says, “If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” In other words, in Christ, believers are counted righteous by faith in the same way that Abraham was (Galatians 3:6-8). If we are in Christ, then we are partakers of the blessing of Israel and all nations in the redemptive work of Christ. Believers become the spiritual descendants of Abraham. Believers do not become physical Jews, but they may enjoy the same type of blessings and privileges as the Jews.

    Now, this does not contradict or nullify the revelation given in the Old Testament. God’s promises in the Old Testament are still valid, and God’s relationship with Israel as a chosen people points to the work of Christ as a Redeemer of the whole world. The Mosaic Law is still mandatory for all Jews who have not yet accepted Christ as their Messiah. Jesus did what they could not do—fulfill the Law in all its details (Matthew 5:17). As New Testament believers, we are no longer under the curse of the Law (Galatians 3:13), because Christ has taken that curse upon Himself on the cross. The Law served two purposes: to reveal sin and mankind’s inability (on his own merit) to do anything about it, and to point us to Christ, who fulfills the Law. His death on the cross completely satisfies God’s righteous requirement of perfection.

    God’s unconditional promises are not invalidated by the unfaithfulness of man. Nothing we do is ever a surprise to God, and He does not need to adjust His plans according to the way we behave. No, God is sovereign over all things—past, present and future—and what He has foreordained for both Israel and the Church will come to pass, regardless of circumstances. Romans 3:3-4 explains that Israel’s unbelief would not nullify His promises concerning them: “What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: ‘So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.’"

    Promises made to Israel are still going to be kept in the future. We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency. The Church does not replace Israel and should not expect a symbolic fulfillment of the promises of the Old Covenant As one reads Scripture, it is necessary to keep Israel and the Church separate.

    Recommended Resource: Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie

    Source: gotquestions.org

  15. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    So why should I believe that Zechariah 14 has anything to do with the present age, and not the new earth age? Please show me scripture, not your opinion, that would make me want to believe that.
  16. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    Why should you believe any teacher who has earned the qualifications to do so, rather than wantabe's who are not? There is nothing in our Bible, prior to the book of Revelation pertaining to anything other than the age we are living in, beginning with Adam and Eve.

    The new age begins in Rev.21, with a new heaven and earth. Everything in our Bible prior to that, will take place in our present age, that has not already occurred, leaving the prophetic Scriptures yet to take place.

  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    I have a copy of the book "Dispensationalism" by Dr. Charles Ryrie on my bookshelf.
    On page 170 of the 2007 edition Dr. Ryrie connects John Nelson Darby to the Irvingites and the Albury prophetic conferences.

    This is found in the following presentation that I produced for YouTube, which shows the connections between modern Dispensational Theology and the book "Coming of Messiah..." by the Jesuit Manuel Lacunza.

    Genesis of Dispensational Theology

    In Acts chapter 2 Peter addresses the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.

    Act 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 

    Here we find Peter speaking to many of those who had called for Jesus to be crucified a few weeks before.
    In the verses that follow we find about 3,000 of those same people who repented and accepted the New Covenant.

    Ryrie also attempts to make it look like the Church is a "Gentile Church", in order to make his Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

    When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites.
    Paul calls himself an Israelite in Romans 11:1.

    The statement above must ignore the fact that the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah chapter 31 is found fulfilled word-for-word by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13.

    The only way you can make Dr. Ryrie's doctrine work is by ignoring Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and Romans 11:1, and Galatians 6:15-16, and James 1:1-3.

    Most of those who promote modern Dispensational Theology have no idea that the doctrine was the result of a book written by a Jesuit priest under the invented name of "Ben Ezra, a converted Jew". It was translated into English by Edward Irving, who presented the doctrine at the Albury Prophetic Conferences in the UK. John Darby attended at least one of those conferences. After Irving died in 1834, John Darby divided scripture into that for the Jews and that for the Church, and became the greatest salesman for the doctrine.

    The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.
    Since that time the doctrine spread like a virus through the modern Evangelical Church.

  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    Zechariah 12
    10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    This inescapably includes Judas and all of the Jews responsible for Christ's death.

    Thus the dispensational view is that Judas et al will ultimately be saved.

    Be prepared to greet Judas et al on the streets of gold.
  19. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    None of which has a single thing to do in response to my post #154, you quoted, that refutes you. Which does not have a single thing to do with dispensationalism, nor of John Darby or of Scofield. As such, you remain refuted,

  20. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    Please provide the source for your meaningless opinion that dispensationalist believe Judas et al will ultimately be saved.