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The Millennium is a Pharisee Doctrine

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Dave L, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    The Millennium is a Pharisee Doctrine.

    First, MILLENNIUM: MILLENNIUM - JewishEncyclopedia.com
    By: Joseph Jacobs, A. Biram

    Table of Contents

    Messianic Period an Interregnum.

    The reign of peace, lasting one thousand years, which will precede the Last Judgment and the future life. The concept has assumed especial importance in the Christian Church, where it is termed also “chiliasm,” designating the dominion of Jesus with the glorified and risen saints over the world for a thousand years. Chiliasm or the idea of the millennium is, nevertheless, older than the Christian Church; for the belief in a period of one thousand years at the end of time as a preliminary to the resurrection of the dead was held in Parseeism. This concept is expressed in Jewish literature in Enoch, xiii., xci. 12-17; in the apocalypse of the ten weeks, in Apoc. Baruch, xl. 3 (“And his dominion shall last forever, until the world doomed to destruction shall perish”); and in II Esdras vii. 28-29. Neither here nor in later Jewish literature is the duration of this Messianic reign fixed. It is clear, however, that the rule of the Messiah was considered as an interregnum, from the fact that in many passages, such as Pes. 68a, Ber. 34b, Sanh. 91b and 99a, Shab. 63a, 113b, and 141b, a distinction is made between and , although it must be noted that some regarded the Messianic rule as the period of the fulfilment of the prophecies, while others saw in it the time of the subjugation of the nations.

    So it is no wonder it found its way into the first century Church comprised mainly of Jews.

    But in time, the church condemned it as heresy. First, According to the Nicene Creed

    We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

    And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

    Sproul, R. C. (Ed.). (2015). The Reformation Study Bible: English Standard Version (2015 Edition) (p. 2389). Orlando, FL: Reformation Trust.

    And condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431 in two ways.

    “In addition to its condemnation of Nestorianism, the council also condemned

    Pelagianism,[2] and rejected premillennialism (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Papias,

    Tertullian, Origen, Lactantius) in favor of amillennialism (Clement of

    Alexandria, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine of Hippo): "Augustine's

    explanation became Church doctrine when it was adopted as the definitive

    explanation of the millennium by the Council of Ephesus in 431."[35]

    Secondly, “Canon 7 condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea (325)” This affirmed Jesus “shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.” Thereby denouncing premillennialism and the doctrines leading up to and including Dispensationalism of the 1800s.

    Retrieved from "Council of Ephesus - Wikipedia"
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  2. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    When Catholics condemn something I'm inclined to think the opposite. So what is Revelation chapter 20 about?
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  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Do you believe in the trinity? The 1000 years in Rev 20 are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end.
  4. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    Yes, I believe in the Trinity. I do not believe in baptismal regeneration, the state of grace theology, transubstantiation, making people saints, priests, monks, nuns, the confessional, venerating particular people, Papal succession.............. need I go on?
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Do you believe the pharisees are right claiming the millennium as their own teaching?
  6. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    It's the first I've heard of it, so I can't comment.
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Jesus taught against the physical kingdom of the Pharisees. So that's a major point to consider.
  8. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    United States
    Yes. And they are right in claiming personal holiness and resurrection of the dead as their own doctrines.
  9. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    United States
    Actually, HE taught Pharisee doctrine. Any religiously educated Jew. giving an honest look at our Lord's teachings, will IMMEDIATELY recognize it as Pharisaic teaching, fitting somewhere between that of Rabbi Shammai and Rabbi Hillel.
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Jesus refuted the pharisee's kingdom saying it is spiritual only.
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    But wrong in physical kingdom ideas.
  12. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    United States
    That is a replacement theology misunderstanding of our Lord's words.
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Replacement theology?
    “For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.” Acts 3:22–23 (KJV 1900)
  14. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid ****CAUTION***** Life is lived in the shape of a ? Supporter

    United States
    I think that in light of both Psalm 90 (and verse 4 more specifically) and the use to which this verse has been appropriated through theological abstraction, such as is seen in 2 Peter 3:8, among other places, we should just be somewhat more charitable with all of this 'millennial' stuff than we typically are ... :rolleyes:

    As for my part, I'll stick to my guns on being a Pre-mill, but also Pan-mill kind of guy!
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    I agree.
  16. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    United States
    The bible is the correct doctrine always.

    People will put forth varying beliefs about the 1,000 years ... that's fine ... regardless compare all with His Word ... including this one ;o) Ask the Lord to help you discern ... spend time and a lot of thought ... don't be in a rush.

    Revelation 20 overview

    When Jesus returns, the 1st resurrection happens (the saved) and He takes all to heaven for the 1,000 years.

    Paul said that "the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16; see also 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). Thus, one of the events to occur at the beginning of the millennium will be the resurrection of the righteous.

    Verses 3 - How can Satan be bound? Says Satan is thrown into the Abyss ... the word Abyss describes the same condition the earth was in before creation of living things. Everything on the earth's surface will be destroyed ... leaving it desolate.

    The word "abyss" (sometimes translated "bottomless pit") is from the Greek "abussos." In the Greek version of Genesis 1:2, the word abussos, translated "the deep," is used to describe the pre-Creation condition of the earth—"formless and empty." Revelation simply means that during the millennium Satan will be confined to this desolate earth with no one to tempt ... until the 1,000 years are over.

    In 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Paul said that at Christ's second coming the wicked "will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord." And in the symbolic description of Christ going to war against the kings of the earth and their armies, Revelation 19:18 says that the birds of the air will "eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, . . . and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small." From this it's evident that the wicked will be all be slain at Christ's second coming.

    Because all of mankind left on earth are destroyed Satan has nobody to tempt. This is how he is bound/imprisoned.

    The righteous, on the other hand, will be in heaven, and Revelation 20 says that they will be "given authority to judge. . . . They will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years" (verses 4, 6).

    Other verses in the New Testament give us some idea of the nature of this judgment. Paul said that "the saints will judge the world" and "we will judge angels" (1 Corinthians 6:2, 3). Also, Jesus said that "when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28). In this verse, Jesus combined both the idea of reigning with Him and judging that John spoke about in Revelation 20:4.

    At the end of the millennium, all of the wicked will be resurrected. Revelation 20:5 says, "The rest of the dead [the wicked] did not come to life [were not resurrected] until the thousand years were ended. Verse 7 says that "when the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison." What does this mean? Verse 3 said that Satan was locked in the abyss "to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended." The reason why Satan cannot tempt anyone during the millennium is that, with the righteous in heaven and the wicked dead, there will be no one to tempt. At the close of the millennium, when the wicked are resurrected, there will once again be people to join him in his rebellion against God. This is what we understand Satan's release from prison to mean.

    In Revelation 20:9, John says that he saw the wicked surrounding "the camp of God's people, the city he loves." This city is the New Jerusalem (decended from heaven), so the descent of the New Jerusalem to earth will occur simultaneously as the wicked are resurrected and Satan is released from his prison.

    In Revelation 20:8, Satan gathers the wicked for battle, and they try to attack the New Jerusalem. At this point, Satan still has not abandoned the purpose he has pursued through out the millennia of earth's history; his purpose is to defeat God and make his rulership of the world permanent.

    The books of the unsaved are opened for all to see and are their judgement is according to what they did during their lifetime (evidence), that is ... all see the evidence is overwhelming and therefor irrefutable.

    "I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it.... And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and the books were opened. ... The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books" (Revelation 20:11, 12). This scene also reveals the reason why the wicked are raised to life after the millennium—so they can be judged for their evil deeds and condemned once and for all.

    Following the judgment of the wicked, they will be destroyed in a lake of fire. However, Peter also describes this lake of fire, and he says that the earth itself will be burned up (2 Peter 3:10-12). Thus, hell is not off in some distant part of the universe, it is not in the center of the earth and it is not happening now. Hell (death & the grave) will be the destruction of the entire planet by fire at the end of the millennium ... reducing everything to ashes. Malachi 4:3 Fire doesn't burn forever ... it burns until everything is consumed and reduced to ashes.

    The lake of fire in Revelation 20:14, 15 is followed immediately by the re-creation of our planet into "a new heaven and a new earth" (Revelation 21:1). Peter used the very same language when, after describing the destruction of the world by fire, he said that there will be "a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness" (2 Peter 3:13). Some people argue that the wicked will burn in hell throughout eternity. However, since hell and the lake of fire that destroys the earth are one and the same, hell cannot last forever if the world is to be re-created as the home of the righteous.

    May the Lord lead you though His Word always. Amen

    Other interpretations ... I agree to disagree ... put them forth and let the poster discern.
  17. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

    I don't know how people can grab a belief and defend it to the death, when actually they are not 100% sure about it. This is one of those topics i was taught about, the millenium i mean, but actually i don't know if its true 100%, i think its a problem when people that know something try to explain to others and they are set in their mindset etc.
  18. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    I read about all this stuff years ago. I am rusty. Fundamentally, I came to the conclusion that it is not important enough to raise a sweat over. There are many doctrines that are the subject of disagreement. That's fine. When it comes to doctrine creating division, that is not fine. A-, Post-, and Pre-Millenialism fall neatly into that category. Dave L's post intrigued me. That's all.
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  19. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    United States
    Yeah ... I find it interesting as well to see what people believe and why they believe it ... end up to agree to disagree ... and I agree no sense getting ones hair up in a dander over it ;o)

    God Bless.
  20. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

    United States
    For precept must be upon precept, precept ..;
    [here a little, and there a little]: (Isaiah 28:10-13

    "Thy Kingdom come", A physical kingdom

    The living Christ is coming as “King of kings
    and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
    to put down the rebellion of warring nations.
    (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
    world-ruling government over all nations.
    (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7)

    He went away (to heaven) to be coronated,
    and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27).
    He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,
    1 Thessalonians 4:16 (Nahum 1:5)

    “We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
    which art, and wast, and art to come; because
    thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and
    hast reigned” (Revelation 11:17)

    -The seventh angel sounds- The Kingdoms
    of this current world are to become Christs.
    (Revelation 11:15)

    -The nations will be angry at His coming
    (Revelation 11:15 with Revelation 11:18), and
    the military forces will actually attempt to fight
    to destroy Him! (Revelation 17:14).
    -today’s cities will be mostly destroyed
    (Ezekiel 6:6; Ezekiel 12:20)

    -Will commit thy government into his hand, es-
    tablished with judgement and justice.(Isaiah 22:21
    -Of the increase of his government and peace
    there shall be no end, upon the throne of David,
    and upon his kingdom,...(Isaiah 9:7)

    A vision of the Beginning of that rule and world
    government “And I saw thrones, and they sat
    upon them, and judgment was given unto them…
    and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand
    years” (Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4)

    And before him shall be gathered all nations:
    and he shall separate them one from another,..
    (Matthew 25:32)
    Jesus said: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” (Revelation 2:26-27).

    And again, “To him that overcometh will I
    grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
    (Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we
    shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

    And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my
    Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
    Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities,
    some over five. The parables of the pounds
    (Luke 19:11-27) and talents (Matthew 25:14-30)

    -A nation will be born at once (Isaiah 66:8)
    Saints shall take the kingdom, and possess
    the kingdom for ever, (Daniel 7:18)
    We shall inherit the earth. (Psalms 25:13-
    22:26, 37:9, 22,29) not being flesh and blood.

    -God chose Jerusalem (1 Kings 8:53) and
    shall choose Jerusalem again (Zechariah 2:12)
    -Christ, himself, will be ruling from
    Jerusalem, King over all the earth.

    -King David, will be king, under Moses, over
    all twelve nations of Israel (Jeremiah 30:9;
    Ezekiel 34:23-24; Ezekiel 37:24-25).

    -The original twelve apostles will be king, under
    David, over one of these nations Matthew 19:28

    "It was round about eighteen thousand
    measures: and the name of the city from that
    day shall be, The Lord is there. (Ezekiel 48:35)

    "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the
    throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall
    be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord,
    to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any
    more after the imagination of their evil heart.
    (Jeremiah 3:17)

    "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the
    temple of my God, and he shall go no more out:

    and I will write upon him the name of my God,
    and the name of the city of my God, which is
    new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of
    heaven from my God: and I will write upon
    him my new name. (Revelation 3:12)

    And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness,
    and [all kings thy glory]: and thou shalt
    be called by a new name, which the mouth
    of the Lord shall name. (Isaiah 62:2)

    -Jerusalem, the future headquarters
    city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8).
    -Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed, converted
    to Jerusalem (Isaiah 60:5, Isaiah 11:15).
    -Gods latter house shall be greater than
    of the former (Haggai 2:9).Psalm 122:3

    "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations,
    and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel,
    and gather together the dispersed of Judah
    from the four corners of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12

    the Lord will have mercy on Jacob (Isaiah 14:1)
    -Israel mine inheritance. (Isaiah 19:25),
    (Psalms 79:1), (Job 31:2) (Psalms 127:3,
    (1 Kings 8:51,53, (1 Kings 11:13,(Psalms 33:12)
    (Psalms 74:2), (Deuteronomy 4:20,

    Jacob is the lot of his inheritance-Deuteronomy 32:9, Israel is the rod of his inheritance-Jeremiah 10:16 ,Jeremiah 51:19-will take his inheritance in the sight of the heathen. Ezekiel 22:16

    -Joel 3:10 will be reversed. “All nations .. shall
    beat their swords into plowshares, and their
    spears into pruninghooks ….” (Isaiah 2:2-4

    -Desolate land shall be tilled - will be
    like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)

    -Repair the waste cities, the desolations
    of many generations” (Isaiah 61:4).
    -Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink
    there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)

    -Waste cities “filled with flocks of men”
    being very social (Ezekiel 36:36-38)
    -Superhighways between major cities
    (Isaiah 19:23)

    -Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none
    be made afraid (Ezekiel 34:28), (Micah 4:4)
    -No more Violence, nor wasting,
    nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)

    -Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17)
    -Equitable property distribution, every man shall
    own his vine and fig tree (Micah 4:4, Leviticus 25

    -“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice
    of melody. (Isaiah 51:3) (Jeremiah 33:10-11)
    -Where old men and old women dwell -full
    of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)

    -No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous
    beast shall go up. (Isaiah 35:9 )
    -There will be Shepherds and local
    animal husbandry (Jeremiah 33:12)

    -Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where
    trees grow (Isaiah 35) the Dead Sea’s
    “waters shall be healed” Ezekiel 47
    Fishermen will line the banks catching fish.

    -No more hunger-He will raise up a plant
    of renown for food. (Ezekiel 34:29)

    -A new sharp threshing instrument -the
    mountains made small (Isaiah 41:14-16)
    -If any thrist and seek water, the God of
    Israel will not forsake them. Isaiah 41:17-18

    Trees planted and growing-consider and
    understand that the Eternal hath done this,
    and [the Holy One of Israel] hath created it” .
    (Isaiah 41:19-20)

    --All will speak the same language, a pure
    language from God (Zephaniah 3:9).
    God will also destroy the idols (Ezekiel 30:13
    (Micah 5:10-15), (Zechariah 13:2)
    no more worship the workof thine hands.

    The [Eternal] is our lawgiver (Isaiah 33:21)
    God’s law and the Word of the Eternal shall go
    forth from Zion, spreading over the whole Earth
    (Isaiah 2:3). God’s Holy Spirit shall flow out
    from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:8).

    “And many nations shall come(Isaiah 2:3,Micah 4:2
    They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy moun-
    tain, the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the
    Lord, as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:9)

    "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord,
    every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue
    shall confess to God. (Romans 14:11)

    The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they
    break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7) All the
    earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto
    thee; they shall sing to thy name. (Psalms 66:4

    -God has spoken it, and He is not one
    to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11)