The Millennial Kingdom in Adventism

[Humble_Disciple]

I would like to visit an Adventist church but I might have a major disagreement with Adventism.

I believe that the millenial kingdom will be on earth after a post-tribulation rapture, rather than in heaven.

Are Adventists allowed to have difference of opinion regarding the location of the millennium and, if not, can you please share with me the best evidence from the Bible that the millenial kingdom will be in heaven, rather than on earth?

What are the Bible verses non-Adventists use to say the millennium will be on earth, and how would Adventism respond to them?

 

[Freth]

What does scripture say?

In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 we are gathered up to meet the Lord in the air and we never leave Him again. Wherever the Lord is, we are. Revelation 19:21 describes the death of the wicked and the birds gathering to the feast of their flesh. Satan is bound and cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years (Revelation 20:1-4) and the wicked do not live again until after the thousand year reign (Revelation 20:5).

Leading up to the second coming, the world undergoes increasing upheaval (Matthew 24:7), culminating in massive destruction by hail (Revelation 16:21), mountains and islands moving out of their place (Revelation 6:14, Revelation 16:20). Utter destruction. The earth will be left desolate and the wicked dead will become a feast for the birds.

After the thousand year reign... (remember, Satan is bound for a thousand years and the wicked remain dead). Satan is loosed, the wicked are resurrected and the beloved city is encompassed. This would point to the city coming down from heaven as having already taken place sometime near the end, or at the end, of the thousand year reign.

If Satan is bound for a thousand years and the wicked don't live again until the end of the thousand year reign, it stands to reason that the earth is not made anew until after the thousand years and most likely not until after judgment is executed on the wicked, as the scene described in Revelation 20:7-8 seems to indicate that this is the old earth, not the new one yet.

I my own mind, the events take place as follows:

• The second coming takes place. The saints are gathered in the air to go to heaven where the city is. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
  
• Satan is bound and cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-3
  
• The wicked are slain by the sword (word) that proceeds out of the mouth of Jesus. Birds feast on their flesh. Revelation 19:21, Revelation 19:17
  
• The wicked remain dead for a thousand years. Revelation 20:5
• The earth is made desolate by the massive upheaval of the events preceding the second coming. Revelation 6:14, Revelation 16:20
  
• Judgment takes place in heaven during the thousand year reign, the saints in participation. Revelation 20:4, Revelation 20:6
  
• At the end of the thousand years... Revelation 20:7
• The city comes down from heaven. Revelation 21:1-2
  
• Satan is loosed. Revelation 20:7
  
• The wicked are resurrected on the earth where they died. Satan gathers a massive army from the whole earth and encompasses the city. Revelation 20:5, Revelation 20:8-9
  
• Fire comes down from heaven and destroys the wicked. Revelation 20:9-10
  
• Heaven and earth are remade anew. Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:1

Does it matter one way or the other? I don't think so. We will find out eventually. It's not a make or break belief, it's just a matter of interpretation of scripture and personal conviction. The events take place regardless.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I would like to visit an Adventist church but I might have a major disagreement with Adventism.

I believe that the millenial kingdom will be on earth after a post-tribulation rapture, rather than in heaven.

Are Adventists allowed to have difference of opinion regarding the location of the millennium and, if not, can you please share with me the best evidence from the Bible that the millenial kingdom will be in heaven, rather than on earth?

What are the Bible verses non-Adventists use to say the millennium will be on earth, and how would Adventism respond to them?

Hi Humble_Disciple,

Thanks for stopping by. I would recommend visiting an SDA church. You do not need to agree with everything to attend services. You might want to see how it goes and maybe have a discussion with the pastor regarding your different opinion.

God bless!

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Does it matter one way or the other? I don't think so. We will find out eventually. It's not a make or break belief, it's just a matter of interpretation of scripture and personal conviction. The events take place regardless.

I agree.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Hi Humble_Disciple,

Thanks for stopping by. I would recommend visiting an SDA church. You do not need to agree with everything to attend services. You might want to see how it goes and maybe have a discussion with the pastor regarding your different opinion.

God bless!

I visited an SDA church this morning, and I was surprised to hear the sermon mentioning John Paul II's forgiveness of his would-be assassin as an example of the forgiveness that God wants us to show for each other. I thought that Adventists were anti-Catholic. Perhaps it isn't true.

 

[Freth]

I visited an SDA church this morning, and I was surprised to hear the sermon mentioning John Paul II's forgiveness of his would-be assassin as an example of the forgiveness that God wants us to show for each other. I thought that Adventists were anti-Catholic. Perhaps it isn't true.

I wouldn't say we are anti-Catholic. We are anti-beast-of-Revelation, which points to papal Rome (the power)—a whole other discussion.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I visited an SDA church this morning, and I was surprised to hear the sermon mentioning John Paul II's forgiveness of his would-be assassin as an example of the forgiveness that God wants us to show for each other. I thought that Adventists were anti-Catholic. Perhaps it isn't true.

There are good, God-loving people in every denomination. God wants us to worship Him though in Truth and Spirit.

I am glad you had a chance to check out a church service. What were your thoughts?

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I am glad you had a chance to check out a church service. What were your thoughts?

I told the minister that I attend a Baptist church, but still regard Ellen White as a modern-day prophet, and he said it's okay, that Baptists are fellow Christians.

I also told him that Ellen White never claimed that her writings were word-for-word from God, but only that He gave her the thoughts which she wrote down in her own words, and he agreed with me.

The beginning of the Great Controversy explains White's view of divine revelation being thought-for-thought, rather than word-for-word, and they gave me a copy of it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I told the minister that I attend a Baptist church, but still regard Ellen White as a modern-day prophet, and he said it's okay, that Baptists are fellow Christians.

I also told him that Ellen White never claimed that her writings were word-for-word from God, but only that He gave her the thoughts which she wrote down in her own words, and he agreed with me.

The beginning of the Great Controversy explains White's view of divine revelation being thought-for-thought, rather than word-for-word, and they gave me a copy of it.

Sounds like it wasn’t too bad for your first visit! I recently moved and went to a couple SDA churches before finding the one that felt like home. Sounds like you were able to connect with a few people and let us know how you like the book.

God bless and Happy Sabbath!

 

[Humble_Disciple]

My own personal opinion, based on Revelation 20, is that there will be a thousand year reign on earth, after a post-tribulation rapture, and that only the dead in Christ will be resurrected during this thousand-year reign, but I'm going to keep searching the scriptures nonetheless.

The reason for the rapture, under this post-tribulation scheme, is to protect Christians while God destroys the wicked, so I agree with Adventists that the wicked will be destroyed. It's just the location of the millennium that I might disagree with, though I welcome difference of opinion.

 

[BobRyan]

I visited an SDA church this morning, and I was surprised to hear the sermon mentioning John Paul II's forgiveness of his would-be assassin as an example of the forgiveness that God wants us to show for each other. I thought that Adventists were anti-Catholic. Perhaps it isn't true.

Adventists don't teach that Catholic people are all evil - rather that the Catholic church in history has done some bad things (like for 1260 years of dark ages mentioned in Rev 12) and that they have some doctrines that are not correct. And that the RCC played not only a key role in history and in the present but also in the near future.

So we don't consider ourselves to be "anti-Catholic" or "anti-Methodist" etc.

 

[BobRyan]

My own personal opinion, based on Revelation 20, is that there will be a thousand year reign on earth, after a post-tribulation rapture, and that only the dead in Christ will be resurrected during this thousand-year reign, but I'm going to keep searching the scriptures nonetheless.

We appear to mostly agree on the post-trib rapture and that only the saints are raised from the dead at the rapture. (We call it the second coming - but we mean by that - what most people mean when they say rapture).

The reason for the rapture, under this post-tribulation scheme, is to protect Christians while God destroys the wicked, so I agree with Adventists that the wicked will be destroyed. It's just the location of the millennium that I might disagree with, though I welcome difference of opinion.

For us - the rapture is the event that starts the 1000 year clock of the millennium

 

[BobRyan]

I would like to visit an Adventist church but I might have a major disagreement with Adventism.

I believe that the millenial kingdom will be on earth after a post-tribulation rapture, rather than in heaven.

Are Adventists allowed to have difference of opinion regarding the location of the millennium and, if not, can you please share with me the best evidence from the Bible that the millenial kingdom will be in heaven, rather than on earth?

What are the Bible verses non-Adventists use to say the millennium will be on earth, and how would Adventism respond to them?

I presented this on the other forum but I think it probably fits even better on this one.

This is the Progressive forum (I am moderate not progressive)... and so I am not sure what the progressive position on this is - but it might be the same as the official SDA version below.. so just in case it is.

If the progressives do not have this view then you can go to the conservative SDA forum to see it - and I assume this post will be removed. (Anyway not sure what the situation is so I am being optimistic in posting this response at this point)

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Anyone can visit and the Sabbath School Bible study that is before the church service is interactive discussion about the Bible lesson for the week. It is highly unlikely anyone will mention what happens during the millennium (unless the sermon happens to be on that topic). at church but I am happy to discuss it.

The teaching the SDA denomination has on it comes from this.

1. John 14:1-3 - Jesus said "I will come again and receive you to myself". He goes to His Father to prepare a place for us - many dwelling places in heaven are there currently, He comes to get the saints.

2. Matt 24: Great tribulation, then immediately after the tribulation - signs in the sky, then people see Jesus coming, .. then the rapture where Angels gather people who are in the sky.

21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
The Glorious Return

29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


People are "in the sky" because of the rapture described in 1 Thess 4:13-18. Matt 24 is describing the 2nd coming which is the rapture.

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.


Jesus takes the saints to heaven at the second coming event (second coming is just John 14 " I will come again") - He receives the saints (rapture) and takes them to heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

The bible says all the world gets this end-time scenario wrong. In the end the majority are wrong on this detail - and are taken in by the final events deception of Satan.

Rev 13:
3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast,


2 Thess 2:
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

Matt 24:
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

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Someone says "hey wait what about the Christians - those who know Christ and the Gospel could never be mistaken like this could they"?

Matt 7 - "the many" who say "Lord Lord" to Jesus will be mistaken
13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
....
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’