The merits of changing parishes.

[Foundthelight]

I converted to the Catholicism several years ago. I have been attending a parish close to the college where I teach. I started there because of convenience in meeting withe Pastor and the ability to attend at least one daily mass a week.

The pastor was young, energetic, and very orthodox in his faith and practice.

As a note we are three parishes combined with one priest to serve all. The individual churches are about 15 - 20 miles apart. We are quite rural.

He was moved to a parish close to his home and replaced with another young priest similar in his faith and practice, but with a few personality flaws that we soon came to ignore. This priest was sent to law school so that he could sit on the ecclesiastical court in the Diocese.

We have since had a succession of older, very liberal priests as administrators that have made detrimental changes. An example is that in one of the churches he moved the statues of Joseph and Mary together and publicly referred to them as the "conjugal couple". He denied the Perpetual Virginity and questioned the Assumption. The next two temporary administrators have expressed similar Marian objections. The Bishop is quite liberal also.

I am contemplating a move to the parish which officially serves my community, although it is in another village several miles away. It is served by a long term priest who has a few years to go to retirement and is much larger in terms of membership and attendance. I spoke briefly with this priest after mass and he had no problem with me switching.

I am still a little uncomfortable with "church hopping" and need some discussion.

As an aside, the new parish is two miles closer, 16 vs 18 miles with no mountains to climb to get to it. Big gas savings, something difficult to ignore in this day of 4.11/9 gas.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Do what you must to avoid error and heresy. You certainly do not want to tolerant the scandal of heresy by priests, if it can be helped at all. If switching to a different parish solves this issue for you and your folks, by all means: have at it.


A possible suggestion:

The best one can do is admonish a local errant priest with orthodox Catholic teaching. After two admonitions as St Paul recommends, go to his bishop. If the bishop ignores you, try writing a letter to Rome. I am just suggesting this course of action; it is a recommendation.

Caveat: I am merely recommending this. This is all up to you. If you feel that you cannot or unable to do this, okay. You do not have to listen to me. I am just offering my best Christian counsel, as per what usually folks do in the Church to address problems.

 

[Foundthelight]

We have complained to the Bishop. He cites the priest shortage as reason for not making changes. We don't know if he has spoken with the priests we complain about. They certainly don't act as though he did.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

We have since had a succession of older, very liberal priests as administrators that have made detrimental changes. An example is that in one of the churches he moved the statues of Joseph and Mary together and publicly referred to them as the "conjugal couple". He denied the Perpetual Virginity and questioned the Assumption. The next two temporary administrators have expressed similar Marian objections. The Bishop is quite liberal also.


Shocking. And thats from a raving liberal like me.

 

[Foundthelight]

Our bishop will reach 75 in October of 2013. We hope and pray for a more orthodox bishop at that time. The only area I know of where our bishop is sound in his thought and action is in the area of being staunchly pro-life, including anti death penalty.

 

[Foundthelight]

We have since had a succession of older, very liberal priests as administrators that have made detrimental changes. An example is that in one of the churches he moved the statues of Joseph and Mary together and publicly referred to them as the "conjugal couple". He denied the Perpetual Virginity and questioned the Assumption. The next two temporary administrators have expressed similar Marian objections. The Bishop is quite liberal also.


Shocking. And thats from a raving liberal like me.

When that priest left he put a notice in the Sunday bulletin that only an assigned priest can make changes to the sanctuary and that anyone attempting to restore the statues to their original positions would be subject to legal action!

 

[JoabAnias]

I moved a few years ago after my Pastor suggested it himself.

Reading this may help you decide:
Msgr. Owen F. Campion: Catholic conundrum

excerpt:
This “cafeteria model” understandably corresponds with an attitude literally overtaking popular religious opinion in this country, absolutely within the mainline Protestant congregations, but also in the Catholic Church.

It is the attitude that religion is personal, subjective and individual. It has not hit the Catholic Church as strongly as Protestants — yet. However, this mindset definitely is affecting the Catholic Church in this country. The signs are not good.

No place is perfect.

We were at the old Parish this past weekend for a first communion and they now have two large jumbo-trons in the sanctuary which were cool and I didn't notice any of the 11 EMHC's serving themselves off the altar any more which was either an improvement or I just wasn't looking when they did because I was riveted to the jumbo-tron.

Father solved his-everyone walking out early problem too by not closing mass and just leading half the closing hymn all by himself and then not processing out behind the altar girls. But I think he stayed behind for pictures in the sanctuary. I'd have just bought the DVD for $20 as advertised on the TV if it were me. I saw in the bulletin that Joyce Meyers CD's are now available in the lending library.

The 8 year old boy with the drum set accompanied by the teen on the bass guitar, flutist and grand piano was a real treat too. No one manned the big kettle bongos though and there was no choir. It was a good thing the giant text on the jumbo trons helped to keep track. The only crucifix was the one superimposed sideways over Fr.'s head during the elevation of the host on the jumbo-tron like special effects.

All the kids were invited to the altar and their parents were able to hand the cup around between themselves one family at a time. There were about six cups so no shortage there. One child had two moms.

There used to be two carved wooden statues; of Joesph and Mary, way off to the left wall of the auditorium. I noticed a couple years ago that the statue of Mary was gone and just the mount is remaining. She wasn't back yesterday. No idea where she went. Things can always be worse sister.

 

[Foundthelight]

I spoke with both my RCIA instructors today. Deacon Tom told me that moving to the other parish is a good idea as it is obvious to him that the Bishop wants ours closed.

The other said to get out as soon as possible. The Deacon laft about a year ago when the first of the heretical priests came in. The other was told by the priest in the parish he wanted to attend that he couldn't switch as many others would follow his example and the Bishop would be upset.

Oh well

 

[epiclesis]

Who cares that the potential new pastor approves of your change? Isn't the current pastor's approval more important, since you're leaving his parish?

 

[tadoflamb]

The 8 year old boy with the drum set accompanied by the teen on the bass guitar, flutist and grand piano was a real treat too. No one manned the big kettle bongos though and there was no choir. It was a good thing the giant text on the jumbo trons helped to keep track. The only crucifix was the one superimposed sideways over Fr.'s head during the elevation of the host on the jumbo-tron like special effects.

Yeah, but did they bust into another rousing rendition of 'How Great is our God'?

 

[Fran75]

[We have since had a succession of older, very liberal priests as administrators that have made detrimental changes. An example is that in one of the churches he moved the statues of Joseph and Mary together and publicly referred to them as the "conjugal couple". He denied the Perpetual Virginity and questioned the Assumption. The next two temporary administrators have expressed similar Marian objections. The Bishop is quite liberal.]

I must say I do agree with the priests on some these issues BUT I am a lay person not a priest, they can have these opinions and discuss them among other people of the cloth but should not be teaching them! it sounds like another parish is in order.

 

[AMDG]

We have complained to the Bishop. He cites the priest shortage as reason for not making changes. We don't know if he has spoken with the priests we complain about. They certainly don't act as though he did.

Oh, he knows. It's like a "chain of command". When one of the people of a parish complain, you can bet that the Bishop will at least be letting the parish priest know of it. (I used to have to make myself quite the "persona non gratis", but now I'm just too tired.)

Oh, a long time ago, a rather liberal chaplain removed our statue of Mary in our military chapel and stored it away. A rather orthodox visiting priest came early to celebrate a First Friday Mass for us. Single-handedly, he got it out of storage and put it back. Then when asked, he feigned ignorance how the statue got there. It was left up. Of course, I wonder if that visiting chaplain had an "interesting" confession.

Of course, that chaplain also bought a smaller statue of Mary (out of his own pocket) that was a "guest" in the homes of parishioner's that signed up for it for maybe a week at a time. It was a nice custom.

 

[JoabAnias]

Yeah, but did they bust into another rousing rendition of 'How Great is our God'?

Actually the selection was worse than that.

 

[Fantine]

I can understand why both liberal and conservative Catholics might change parishes if they are not being spiritually nourished in the parishes they attend.

I don't attach a value judgment to either, using words like "heretical" and telling people they should launch campaigns to the bishop or even the Pope.

They join a parish to be part of a faith community that nurtures and strengthens their relationships with God. For whatever reason, that's not happening.

This very day, someone might be leaving the very parish Found the Light is choosing to attend in order to attend the parish Found the Light is leaving. And that's OK.

Praise God that there are two distinct choices within twenty miles, since assuredly in those twenty miles there are many different people.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Is there anything that you would deem heretical or call heretical at all, Fantine? I am curious. You seem quite apt and prone to defending, oftentimes a myriad of beliefs.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Is there anything that you would deem heretical or call heretical at all, Fantine? I am curious. You seem quite apt and prone to defending, oftentimes a myriad of beliefs.

The problem is that so many people don't really think in terms of right and wrong anymore. There is a very real and very dangerous strain of thought going through the Church that basically says that something is OK, so long as it brings you "closer" to God in some kind of vague, subjective sense.

This is, of course, a very protestant attitude, but it has weaseled it's way into the true Church. Just look at all the people who will defend outrageous heresies and blatant abuses in a particular parish under the guise that they feel closer to God in that parish. As far as I'm concerned, if I'm at a Church where the priest teaches anything against Church teaching, thats the last time I'll be going there.

To the OP, all I would say is leave now.

Blessings,

Steve

 

[Foundthelight]

[We have since had a succession of older, very liberal priests as administrators that have made detrimental changes. An example is that in one of the churches he moved the statues of Joseph and Mary together and publicly referred to them as the "conjugal couple". He denied the Perpetual Virginity and questioned the Assumption. The next two temporary administrators have expressed similar Marian objections. The Bishop is quite liberal.]

I must say I do agree with the priests on some these issues BUT I am a lay person not a priest, they can have these opinions and discuss them among other people of the cloth but should not be teaching them! it sounds like another parish is in order.

Fran,

The Marian Dogmas are not open to public debate and most definitely a priest with doubts cannot publicly teach against them.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

If a priest is not following the teachings of the Church, either in terms of doctrine, or is not celebrating the Mass reverently, - I'd switch, or just pray and offer it up lol..

 

[Fantine]

Is there anything that you would deem heretical or call heretical at all, Fantine? I am curious. You seem quite apt and prone to defending, oftentimes a myriad of beliefs.

Theoretically, one is supposed to register in the parish where they reside.

On OBOB, conservatives who change churches are praised and encouraged, and the churches are condemned (based on a second-hand accounting with no corroboration and no opportunity to hear both sides of the story.)

If liberals dislike a parish that is too conservative, they are called the heretics and the pastor of the parish is praised.

My answer is honest and practical: What's most important is our relationship with God. If our parish is an obstacle, we should leave. And we can leave without writing our bishop and saying, "I'm leaving because the pastor is a heretic." And we can leave without telling all our friends and acquaintances that the pastor is a heretic.

If someone is leaving his parish, he doesn't have to draw and quarter his pastor to me so that I will "understand."

And neither would I want someone to tell me, "How can you leave? The pastor sings hymns in Latin. He won't give Communion to divorced people (very important.) He won't even let divorced people teach CCD (also very important.) He put out a sign for George W. Bush on the rectory lawn. If you're leaving, you must be a heretic."

 

[JoabAnias]

Theoretically, one is supposed to register in the parish where they reside.

Conservatives who change churches are praised and encouraged, and the churches are condemned.

If liberals dislike a parish that is too conservative, they are called the heretics and the pastor of the parish is praised.

My answer is honest and practical: What's most important is our relationship with God. If our parish is an obstacle, we should leave.