THE MEANING OF 1 Tim 1:4 .

[pescador]

And the word EDIFYING is not in the Greek text as it the Greek word OIKONOMIA / DISPESATION and the word EDIFTING is not , will say why you used redemptive as I can not find it in the Greek text ? So help me out >?

dan p

I have no idea what you're writing about. I have no reason to change what I posted. Of course the English word "edifying" is not in the Greek test; it's an English word. What do the words "dispesation" and "edifting" mean??

 

[Dan Perez]

I have no idea what you're writing about. I have no reason to change what I posted. Of course the English word "edifying" is not in the Greek test; it's an English word. What do the words "dispesation" and "edifting" mean??

And EDIFYIN / OIKODOME in 1 Tim 1:4 , means the act of building .

DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA means , OIKOS means house and NOMOS means LAW .

The house rules under the Law were 613 Laws that governed Israel .

And under the dispensation the house rules , are the B O C , RAPTURE , PLACED INTO THE BODY , OSAS , JUDGE ANGELS , RECIEVE REWARDS , ETCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

dan p

 

[BABerean2]

And EDIFYIN / OIKODOME in 1 Tim 1:4 , means the act of building .

DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA means , OIKOS means house and NOMOS means LAW .

The house rules under the Law were 613 Laws that governed Israel .

And under the dispensation the house rules , are the B O C , RAPTURE , PLACED INTO THE BODY , OSAS , JUDGE ANGELS , RECIEVE REWARDS , ETCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

dan p

Dispensationalists often have to argue over the meaning of words.
Why?
It is one of the tactics necessary to get their doctrine to agree with what is written in the Bible.
The other is ignoring the passages of scripture which kill the doctrine.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS

with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.

F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26

http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418



Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine

Pastor Tim Warner

http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism

(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)

Pastor Tim Warner

http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

 

[Dan Perez]

Dispensationalists often have to argue over the meaning of words.
Why?
It is one of the tactics necessary to get their doctrine to agree with what is written in the Bible.
The other is ignoring the passages of scripture which kill the doctrine.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS

with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.

F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26

http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418



Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine

Pastor Tim Warner

http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism

(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)

Pastor Tim Warner

http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

Hi and I especially BELIEVE what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 11:1 says we we are to become IMITATORS of me , just as I also am I Christ , is my motto .

danp

 

[pescador]

And the word EDIFYING is not in the Greek text as it the Greek word OIKONOMIA / DISPESATION and the word EDIFTING is not , will say why you used redemptive as I can not find it in the Greek text ? So help me out >?

dan p

Why, if you're such a stickler for correct grammar, are there so many grammatical errors in your posts? What is "DISPESATION"? What is "EDIFTING"? Or (earlier) "It always will be a contention and will always use the KJV ." or "If you are correct that many document [singular] are in complete [incomplete] copies of the originals , can we TRUST THEM incomplete and who them COMPLETED THEM ??

Sorry, but your faulty English grammar weakens your whole argument about the correct interpretation of language.

 

[pescador]

Hi and I especially BELIEVE what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 11:1 says we we are to become IMITATORS of me , just as I also am I Christ , is my motto .

danp

"we we are to become IMITATORS of me"

Another example. I'm sorry but your argument about correct language usage falls flat. How can you possibly interpret the Bible correctly, especially the KJV?

 

[Dan Perez]

I have no idea what you're writing about. I have no reason to change what I posted. Of course the English word "edifying" is not in the Greek test; it's an English word. What do the words "dispesation" and "edifting" mean??

And use are saying that the English word EDIFYING is not in 1 TIM 1:4 , GOOD .

The Greek word for EDIFYING / OIKODOME means OIKOS means a home and DOME means to build .
Anyone that checks the Greek text WILL see it is the Greek word OIKONOMIA which is DISPENSATION , pure and simple .

By the way the Greek word DISPENSATION is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and hat means LIMITED to that word DISPENSATION !!

dan p

 

[pescador]

And use are saying that the English word EDIFYING is not in 1 TIM 1:4 , GOOD .

The Greek word for EDIFYING / OIKODOME means OIKOS means a home and DOME means to build .
Anyone that checks the Greek text WILL see it is the Greek word OIKONOMIA which is DISPENSATION , pure and simple .

By the way the Greek word DISPENSATION is min the ACCUSATIVE CASE and hat means LIMITED to that word DISPENSATION !!

dan p

1 Timothy 1:3-4, "As I urged you when I was leaving for Macedonia, stay on in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to spread false teachings, nor to occupy themselves with myths and interminable genealogies. Such things promote useless speculations rather than God’s redemptive plan that operates by faith." NET v2.1

Are we referring to the same Bible?

 

[Dan Perez]

1 Timothy 1:3-4, "As I urged you when I was leaving for Macedonia, stay on in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to spread false teachings, nor to occupy themselves with myths and interminable genealogies. Such things promote useless speculations rather than God’s redemptive plan that operates by faith." NET v2.1

Are we referring to the same Bible?

I mainly use the CAMPANION BIBLE by Bullinger and is KJV .

dan p

 

[readywriter]

Meaning of 1 Tim 1:4 .

I believe that 1 Tim 1:4 is the answer of those that say Dispensationalism emerged by Darby .

#1 It begins with the Greek word NEITHER/MEDE and means NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, NOT .do not not , give !!

#2 GIVE HEED / PROSECHO , is in the Greek Present Tense , Active Voice and is an Infinitive .

#3 TO FABLES / MYTHOS is in Dative Case which the case of personal interest .

#4 and ENDLESS / APERATOS also in the Dative Case .

#5 GEALOGIES / GENEALOGIA also in the Dative Case .

#6 WHICH /HOSTIS an Relative Pronoun is which describes , that , which , what , or whom .
#7 MINISTER / PARECHO is in the Greek Present , which is talking about ministers of Paul's time .

#8 Which minster QUESTIONS / ZETESIS in the Accusative case , which is a case of limitations .

#9 GODLY / THEOS is in the GENITIVE case of Possession .

#10 And the next word is DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA and is in the Accusative case and if you want to be godly you have to know the MYSTERY as written in Col 1:25 and 26 to be in the FAITH .

This means that Greek word EDIFYING i NOT in the Greek text as the correct word is DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA , and to be in the Faith all believers have to know and preach and know the word DISPENATIONLY .

dan p

'Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies,
.. which minister questions,
.... rather than godly edifying
...... which is in faith: so do.
Now the end of the commandment
.. is charity (love) out of a pure heart,
.... and of a good conscience,
...... and of faith unfeigned:
From which some having swerved
.. have turned aside unto vain jangling;
.... Desiring to be teachers of the law;
...... understanding neither what they say,
........ nor whereof they affirm.'
(1Tmothyi 1:4-7)

Hello @Dan Perez,

Good portion of Scripture!

'Edifying' = oikonomia, yes. Yet, surely within this context the word, 'fellowship' which it is so translated in Ephesians 3:9, would be more appropriate = 'godly edifying (i.e., fellowship or dispensation [meaning 'administration') which is in faith'.

'Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints,
is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles
the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see what is the fellowship (ie., dispensation) of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ:
(Ephesians 3:8-10)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

1 Timothy 1:3-4, "As I urged you when I was leaving for Macedonia, stay on in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to spread false teachings, nor to occupy themselves with myths and interminable genealogies. Such things promote useless speculations rather than God’s redemptive plan that operates by faith." NET v2.1

Are we referring to the same Bible?

And are you saying that the Greek word DISPENSATION is not in the text ?

Better check again ?

dan p

 

[readywriter]

Meaning of 1 Tim 1:4 .

I believe that 1 Tim 1:4 is the answer of those that say Dispensationalism emerged by Darby .

#1 It begins with the Greek word NEITHER/MEDE and means NOT, NOT .do not not , give !!

#2 GIVE HEED / PROSECHO , is in the Greek Present Tense , Active Voice and is an Infinitive .

#3 TO FABLES / MYTHOS is in Dative Case which the case of personal interest .

#4 and ENDLESS / APERATOS also in the Dative Case .

#5 GEALOGIES / GENEALOGIA also in the Dative Case .

#6 WHICH /HOSTIS an Relative Pronoun is which describes , that , which , what , or whom .
#7 MINISTER / PARECHO is in the Greek Present , which is talking about ministers of Paul's time .

#8 Which minster QUESTIONS / ZETESIS in the Accusative case , which is a case of limitations .

#9 GODLY / THEOS is in the GENITIVE case of Possession .

#10 And the next word is DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA and is in the Accusative case and if you want to be godly you have to know the MYSTERY as written in Col 1:25 and 26 to be in the FAITH .

This means that Greek word EDIFYING i NOT in the Greek text as the correct word is DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA , and to be in the Faith all believers have to know and preach and know the word DISPENATIONLY .

dan p

'Neither give heed to fables
and endless genealogies,
which minister questions,
rather than godly edifying
which is in faith:
so do.'
(1 Tim. 1:4)

Hello @Dan Perez ,

I am sorry you have had such rude remarks. of a personal nature, directed at you. For I know that your attempts to break down and consider the words used in the text, is intended to be helpful. However, unfortunately, I do not always find it has that effect, but can be a distraction.

* The word translated 'edifying' that you draw attention to, is translated from the Greek 'oikonomia' (as you say): Strongs No. G3622; which is also translated, 'dispensation' & 'stewardship'.

* Within the context of 1 Timothy 1:4 the word 'edifying', accompanied by the word 'godly' is perfect, for it tells us what the stewardship and dispensation is intended to be, and that is 'godly edification'. It is intended to edify, or instruct morally and intellectually.

* This is what the dispensation of God, given to Paul, and made known in the epistles written following that revelation (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon), is intended to do. Instruct, morally and intellectually concerning the change in administration necessitated by the departure of Israel (temporarily) into the blindness of unbelief. This knowledge is the sum of God's provision, known and planned from before the foundation of the world. and Hid in Him since the world began. Thus, described as, 'The Unsearchable Riches of Christ'.(Ephesians 3:8)

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

'Neither give heed to fables
and endless genealogies,
which minister questions,
rather than godly edifying
which is in faith:
so do.'
(1 Tim. 1:4)

Hello @Dan Perez ,

I am sorry you have had such rude remarks. of a personal nature, directed at you. For I know that your attempts to break down and consider the words used in the text, is intended to be helpful. However, unfortunately, I do not always find it has that effect, but can be a distraction.

* The word translated 'edifying' that you draw attention to, is translated from the Greek 'oikonomia' (as you say): Strongs No. G3622; which is also translated, 'dispensation' & 'stewardship'.

* Within the context of 1 Timothy 1:4 the word 'edifying', accompanied by the word 'godly' is perfect, for it tells us what the stewardship and dispensation is intended to be, and that is 'godly edification'. It is intended to edify, or instruct morally and intellectually.

* This is what the dispensation of God, given to Paul, and made known in the epistles written following that revelation (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon), is intended to do. Instruct, morally and intellectually concerning the change in administration necessitated by the departure of Israel (temporarily) into the blindness of unbelief. This knowledge is the sum of God's provision, known and planned from before the foundation of the world. and Hid in Him since the world began. Thus, described as, 'The Unsearchable Riches of Christ'.(Ephesians 3:8)

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

And I believe what Paul wrote in Epn 3:1-8 and also Col 1:26 - 29 and why should I back down from teaching what was REVEALED to Paul that we are teach every man , verse 28 ?

dan p

 

[Davy]

Meaning of 1 Tim 1:4 .

I believe that 1 Tim 1:4 is the answer of those that say Dispensationalism emerged by Darby .

#1 It begins with the Greek word NEITHER/MEDE and means NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, NOT .do not not , give !!

#2 GIVE HEED / PROSECHO , is in the Greek Present Tense , Active Voice and is an Infinitive .

#3 TO FABLES / MYTHOS is in Dative Case which the case of personal interest .

#4 and ENDLESS / APERATOS also in the Dative Case .

#5 GEALOGIES / GENEALOGIA also in the Dative Case .

#6 WHICH /HOSTIS an Relative Pronoun is which describes , that , which , what , or whom .
#7 MINISTER / PARECHO is in the Greek Present , which is talking about ministers of Paul's time .

#8 Which minster QUESTIONS / ZETESIS in the Accusative case , which is a case of limitations .

#9 GODLY / THEOS is in the GENITIVE case of Possession .

#10 And the next word is DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA and is in the Accusative case and if you want to be godly you have to know the MYSTERY as written in Col 1:25 and 26 to be in the FAITH .

This means that Greek word EDIFYING i NOT in the Greek text as the correct word is DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA , and to be in the Faith all believers have to know and preach and know the word DISPENATIONLY .

dan p

That has nothing to do with Darby's theory of dispensationalism, which he did create by the way. If anything, the 1 Timothy 1:4 verse shows that Darby was guilty... of creating fables.

 

[Dan Perez]

'Neither give heed to fables
and endless genealogies,
which minister questions,
rather than godly edifying
which is in faith:
so do.'
(1 Tim. 1:4)

Hello @Dan Perez ,

I am sorry you have had such rude remarks. of a personal nature, directed at you. For I know that your attempts to break down and consider the words used in the text, is intended to be helpful. However, unfortunately, I do not always find it has that effect, but can be a distraction.

* The word translated 'edifying' that you draw attention to, is translated from the Greek 'oikonomia' (as you say): Strongs No. G3622; which is also translated, 'dispensation' & 'stewardship'.

* Within the context of 1 Timothy 1:4 the word 'edifying', accompanied by the word 'godly' is perfect, for it tells us what the stewardship and dispensation is intended to be, and that is 'godly edification'. It is intended to edify, or instruct morally and intellectually.

* This is what the dispensation of God, given to Paul, and made known in the epistles written following that revelation (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon), is intended to do. Instruct, morally and intellectually concerning the change in administration necessitated by the departure of Israel (temporarily) into the blindness of unbelief. This knowledge is the sum of God's provision, known and planned from before the foundation of the world. and Hid in Him since the world began. Thus, described as, 'The Unsearchable Riches of Christ'.(Ephesians 3:8)

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

And in Luke 16:3 and 4 we the Greek word DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA , why?

It has noting to do with Pauline dispensationalism .

dan p

 

[readywriter]

And in Luke 16:3 and 4 we the Greek word DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA , why?

It has noting to do with Pauline dispensationalism .

dan p

'Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do?
for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship:
I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
I am resolved what to do,
that, when I am put out of the stewardship,
they may receive me into their houses.'
(Luke 16:3-4)

oikonomia (Strongs No. G3622)
From G3623; meaning administration (of a household or estate);
specifically a (religious) “economy”
Translated: - dispensation, stewardship.

Hello @Dan Perez,

The Greek word 'oikonomia' is not used exclusively by Paul in Scripture, as you have pointed out. This word, translated 'dispensation' and 'stewardship' is not used by dispensationalists without good reason: for it is the word used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10; Ephesians 3:2; Colossians 1:25 and in Titus 1:7 (oikonomos G3623 = steward).

Paul was the Steward (oikonomos) of God's Truth revealed to Him, concerning the Mystery, and administered by Him in the epistles (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

'Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do?
for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship:
I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
I am resolved what to do,
that, when I am put out of the stewardship,
they may receive me into their houses.'
(Luke 16:3-4)

oikonomia (Strongs No. G3622)
From G3623; meaning administration (of a household or estate);
specifically a (religious) “economy”
Translated: - dispensation, stewardship.

Hello @Dan Perez,

The Greek word 'oikonomia' is not used exclusively by Paul in Scripture, as you have pointed out. This word, translated 'dispensation' and 'stewardship' is not used by dispensationalists without good reason: for it is the word used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10; Ephesians 3:2; Colossians 1:25 and in Titus 1:7 (oikonomos G3623 = steward).

Paul was the Steward (oikonomos) of God's Truth revealed to Him, concerning the Mystery, and administered by Him in the epistles (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

And have you looked at LUKE 16:1-4 ?

#1 Is STEWARD / OIKONOMOS in the ACCUSCUTIVE CASE , and in the SINGULAR .

#2 Verse 2 , it is STEWARDSHIP / OIKINOMISA in the GENITIVE CASE and is singular .

#3 Verse 3 , it is STEWARDSHIP / OIKONOMIA in the ACCUSACTIVE CASE and is singular.

#4 Verse 4 , it is STEWARDSHIP / OIKONOMIA in the GENITIVE CASE and is in the singular .

I need you thoughts , why it is found in the book of LUKE 16 :1-4 when we know that , the DISPENSATION of the GRACE OF GOD was GIVEN TO PAUL ?

dan p

 

[readywriter]

And have you looked at LUKE 16:1-4 ?

#1 Is STEWARD / OIKONOMOS in the ACCUSCUTIVE CASE , and in the SINGULAR .

#2 Verse 2 , it is STEWARDSHIP / OIKINOMISA in the GENITIVE CASE and is singular .

#3 Verse 3 , it is STEWARDSHIP / OIKONOMIA in the ACCUSACTIVE CASE and is singular.

#4 Verse 4 , it is STEWARDSHIP / OIKONOMIA in the GENITIVE CASE and is in the singular .

I need you thoughts , why it is found in the book of LUKE 16 :1-4 when we know that , the DISPENSATION of the GRACE OF GOD was GIVEN TO PAUL ?

dan p

'And He said also unto His disciples,
There was a certain rich man, which had a steward;
and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee?
give an account of thy stewardship;
for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Then the steward said within himself,
What shall I do?
for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship:
I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
I am resolved what to do,
that, when I am put out of the stewardship,
they may receive me into their houses.'
(Luke 16:1-4)

Hello @Dan Perez,

'The Parable of the Unjust Steward' - Luke 16:1-8.
The Application - Luke 16:8-12.

This chapter contains parables against the Pharisees on their Stewardship and Teachings. These parables are peculiar to Luke. This parable although addressed to the disciples, concerns the outlook and conduct of Israel's leaders, and is a warning to the Twelve.

* Christ had already given the story of the Wise Steward in Luke 12:42-48, who could be trusted with his masters goods, and who would look after his servants faithfully.

* In this parable the Lord is teaching by contrast. The action of the dishonest steward was not to be copied, and the end never justifies the means.

* Of the words you have referred to 'oikonomos,' steward, 'oikonomia' stewardship, and oikonomeo to act as a steward. The word oikonomos literally means 'house manager'.

* The use of these words in this parable has no bearing on the use made of them by the Holy Spirit in relation to Paul and His ministry, the word is simply being used in a different application by our Lord.

* I don't have time at the moment to look at this parable further, I'm afraid.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

'And He said also unto His disciples,
There was a certain rich man, which had a steward;
and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee?
give an account of thy stewardship;
for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Then the steward said within himself,
What shall I do?
for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship:
I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
I am resolved what to do,
that, when I am put out of the stewardship,
they may receive me into their houses.'
(Luke 16:1-4)

Hello @Dan Perez,

And Luke 16 is indeed , very meaty and here the Greek word DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA means MANAGER .

dan p

'The Parable of the Unjust Steward' - Luke 16:1-8.
The Application - Luke 16:8-12.

This chapter contains parables against the Pharisees on their Stewardship and Teachings. These parables are peculiar to Luke. This parable although addressed to the disciples, concerns the outlook and conduct of Israel's leaders, and is a warning to the Twelve.

* Christ had already given the story of the Wise Steward in Luke 12:42-48, who could be trusted with his masters goods, and who would look after his servants faithfully.

* In this parable the Lord is teaching by contrast. The action of the dishonest steward was not to be copied, and the end never justifies the means.

* Of the words you have referred to 'oikonomos,' steward, 'oikonomia' stewardship, and oikonomeo to act as a steward. The word oikonomos literally means 'house manager'.

* The use of these words in this parable has no bearing on the use made of them by the Holy Spirit in relation to Paul and His ministry, the word is simply being used in a different application by our Lord.

* I don't have time at the moment to look at this parable further, I'm afraid.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris