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Featured The meaning of αἰώνιος/aionios and αἰών/aion.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Der Alte, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Many discussions in this forum get bogged down due to arguments about the meaning of Aionios and Aion.
    …..Some people claim that “aion/aionios” never means eternity/eternal because they sometimes refer to things which are not eternal.
    But neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the below verses.
    UR-ites argue that "Aionios never means eternal it means 'age during.'" "Age during" is a nonsensical term that is only found is some Bible versions. "Aionios" is an adjective "age" is a noun "during" is a preposition. To make it fit certain arguments they have to change an adjective into a noun and a preposition.
    Those who reject the definition "eternal" for "aionios" also reject any concordances which define "aionos" as "eternal." Claiming they are biased.
    I decided to review every occurrence of of "aionios" and "aion" in the NT.
    Αιωνιος/aionios occurs 69 times in the NT.
    Aionios translated “eternal life” 30 times
    " . . . . . . " . . . . .. "everlasting life” 15 times.
    " . . . . . . . . " . . . . . . "world" 2 times. 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2
    Jesus uses aionios 28 times, He never uses it to refer to anything ordinary or mundane which was not or could not be “eternal.”
    Αιων/aion occurs 203 times in the NT
    Aion translated world 40 times
    . . . . . . . . . eternity 163 times.
    . . . . . . . . . forever 50 times
    . . . . . . . . . end of world 7 times.
    . . . . . . . . . never 7 times
    . . . . . . . . . Ages 2 times
    Intentionally or not in twenty four [24] of the following verses "aionios" is defined/described as eternal, everlasting etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
    = = = = = = = = = =
    …..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
    In the following ten verses Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.”

    [1] Luke 1:33
    (33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]
    In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
    [2] John 6:58
    (58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]
    In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [3] John 10:28
    (28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
    In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
    [4]John 3:15
    (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
    [5] John 3:16
    (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.
    In these two verses Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
    [6]John 5:24
    (24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    [/INDENT]
    In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
    [7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
    In this verse Jesus contrasted aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
    [8] John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.
    In this verse Jesus contrasted aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See note [fn] on “ou mé” below.
    [9]John 6:27
    (27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
    In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
    [10]John 8:51
    (51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."
    [fn]●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
    ● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

    Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
    ● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
    Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
    By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
    Paul used the word “aionios” 23 times. It is translated “eternal/everlasting” 20 times and world 3 times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.

    [11]Romans 5:21
    (21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
    In this verse Paul contrasts “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
    [12]Ephesians 3:21
    (21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
    In this verse Paul paired “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.

    [Character limit continued next post]




     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
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  2. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    [Previous post continued]

    [13]Romans 1:20
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    [14]Romans 16:26
    (26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
    [15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
    (17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
    (18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]
    In this passage Paul contrasts “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [16]2 Corinthians 5:1
    (1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.
    In this verse Paul contrasts “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [17]1 Timothy 6:16
    (16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]
    In this verse “aionios” Paul paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
    [18]Galatians 6:8
    (8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]
    In this verse Paul contrasts “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
    [19]Romans 2:7
    (7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.
    In this verse Paul pairs “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
    [20]1 Timothy 1:17.
    (17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.
    In this verse Paul pairs “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [21]Romans 5:21
    (21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
    In this verse Paul contrasts “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
    [22]Ephesians 3:21
    (21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
    In this verse Paul paired “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
    [23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.
    In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [24]1 Peter 1:23
    (23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
    1 Peter 1:25
    (25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
    In verse 23 Peter pairs “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
    [25]1 Peter 5:10
    (10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
    In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
    [26]Revelation 14:11
    (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”


     
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  3. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    In the following 22 quotes the Early Church Fathers, intentionally or not, define/describe aionios as eternal/everlasting
    [1]Ignatius [A.D. 30-107.] The Epistle to the RomansChap VII

    David and Abraham; and I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.
    “Eternal life” is paired with “incorruptible love.”
    [2]Justin The First Apology. Chap XIII

    For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.
    “Eternal” is paired with “unchangeable.”
    [3]Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book II. Chap V

    3. The [immediate] Creator, then, is not the [real] Author of this work, thinking, as He did, that He formed it very good, but He who allows and approves of the productions of defect, and the works of error having a place among his own possessions, and that temporal things should be mixed up with eternal, corruptible with incorruptible, and those which partake of error with those which belong to truth.
    “eternal” is contrasted with “temporal/temporary” and paired with “incorruptible.”
    [4]Athenagoras A Plea for the Christians.

    Chap. X. - The Christians Worship the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
    That we are not atheists, therefore, seeing that we acknowledge one God, uncreated, eternal, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable, who is apprehended by the understanding only and the reason, who is encompassed by light, and beauty, and spirit, and power ineffable, by whom the universe has been created through His Logos, and set in order, and is kept in being - I have sufficiently demonstrated. [I say “His Logos”], for we acknowledge also a Son of God.
    “eternal” is paired with “impassible,” “illimitable” and “ineffable.”
    [5]Fragments of Clemens Alexandrinus. – I. - From the Latin Translation of Cassiodorus.

    “For he that will love life, and see good days;” (1Pe_3:10) that is, who wishes to become eternal and immortal. And He calls the Lord life, and the days good, that is holy.
    “eternal” is paired with “immortal.”
    [6]Tertullian Part first Apology Chap. XLV

    No doubt about it, we, who receive our awards under the judgment of an all-seeing God, and who look forward to eternal punishment from Him for sin, — we alone make real effort to attain a blameless life, under the influence of our ampler knowledge, the impossibility of concealment, and the greatness of the threatened torment, not merely long-enduring but everlasting, fearing Him, whom he too should fear who the fearing judges, — even God, I mean, and not the proconsul.
    “eternal/everlasting” is contrasted with “long-enduring.”
    [7]Origen De Principiis. Book I. Chap II

    I11. That is properly termed everlasting or eternal which neither had a beginning of existence, nor can ever cease to be what it is. And this is the idea conveyed by John when he says that “God is light.” Now His wisdom is the splendour of that light, not only in respect of its being light, but also of being everlasting light, so that His wisdom is eternal and everlasting splendour.
    “everlasting” and “eternal” are described as “neither had a beginning of existence, nor can ever cease to be what it is.”
    [8]The Epistles of Cyprian. Epistle LXXX

    2. Let no one think of death, but of immortality; nor of temporary punishment, but of eternal glory; since it is written, “Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints;” (Psa_116:15) and again, “A broken spirit is a sacrifice to God: a contrite and humble heart God doth not despise.”
    “eternal” is paired with “immortality” and contrasted with “temporary.”
    [9]Novatian Treatise Concerning the Trinity. Chap. XXXI.

    Thus God the Father, the Founder and Creator of all things, who only knows no beginning, invisible, infinite, immortal, eternal, is one God;.
    “eternal” is described as “knows no beginning, … infinite, immortal”
    [10]Gregory Thaumututgus A Declaration of Faith Part 1

    There is one Lord, Only of the Only,3 God of God, Image and Likeness of Deity, Efficient Word,4 Wisdom comprehensive5 of the constitution of all things, and Power formative6 of the whole creation, true Son of true Father, Invisible of Invisible, and Incorruptible of Incorruptible, and Immortal of Immortal and eternal of eternal.
    “eternal” is paired with “Incorruptible” and “Immortal.”
    [Continued next post]
     
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  4. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

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    Way too long an essay! I didn't even read it all.

    'Eternal' comes from the Latin translation of the Greek word, but it has subtly different meaning in the latin which tends to confuse its use in English.

    'Eternal' means without beginning or end, whereas Aeon means 'ageless'. The problems with 'Eternal' come when we try to apply it to Eternal Life which clearly does have a beginning, even if there is no end. On the other hand ageless works just fine.
     
  5. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

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    Also Eternal has the sense of time extending where as Aeon/ageless has the sense of time being irrelevant.
     
  6. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    [Previous post continued]
    [11]Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew. Chap XXXI
    And His dominion is an everlasting dominion,[Daniel 7:14] which shall not be taken away; and His kingdom shall not be destroyed.
    “Everlasting dominion” paired with “shall not be taken away” and “shall not be destroyed.”
    [12]Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew. Chap. CXVII
    But these filthy garments, which have been put by you on all who have become Christians by the name of Jesus, God shows shall be taken away from us, when He shall raise all men from the dead, and appoint some to be incorruptible, immortal, and free from sorrow in the everlasting and imperishable kingdom; but shall send others away to the everlasting punishment of fire.
    “everlasting and imperishable kingdom” contrasted with “everlasting punishment.”
    [13]Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book IV Chap. XX.
    11. And drawing near to the Ancient of Days, and receiving from Him all power and glory, and a kingdom. “His dominion,” it is said, “is an everlasting dominion, and His kingdom shall not perish.”(Daniel 7:14)
    “Everlasting dominion” paired with “shall not perish.”
    [14]Address of Tatian to the Greeks. Chap. XIV
    Therefore, what is now their chief distinction, that they do not die like men, they will retain when about to suffer punishment: they will not partake of everlasting life, so as to receive this instead of death in a blessed immortality. And as we, to whom it now easily happens to die, afterwards receive the immortal with enjoyment, or the painful with immortality, so the demons, who abuse the present life to purposes of wrong-doing, dying continually even while they live, will have hereafter the same immortality, like that which they had during the time they lived, but in its nature like that of men, who voluntarily performed what the demons prescribed to them during their lifetime.
    “everlasting life” paired with “immortality/immortal”
    [15]Clement of Alexandria Who Is the Rich Man that Shall Be Saved? Chap. XIX
    Not at all. But by introducing, instead of what was formerly inherent in your soul, which you desire to save, other riches which deify and which minister everlasting life, dispositions in accordance with the command of God; for which there shall accrue to you endless reward and honour, and salvation, and everlasting immortality.
    “Everlasting life” is paired with “everlasting immortality.”
    [16]Tertullian I. Apology. Chap. XLVIII.
    Therefore after this there is neither death nor repeated resurrections, but we shall be the same that we are now, and still unchanged — the servants of God, ever with God, clothed upon with the proper substance of eternity; but the profane, and all who are not true worshippers of God, in like manner shall be consigned to the punishment of everlasting fire — that fire which, from its very nature indeed, directly ministers to their incorruptibility.
    “eternity” is contrasted with “punishment of everlasting fire” which is paired with “incorrutability”.
    [17]Origen De Principiis. Book II. Chap. X.
    3. … there is yet given, in proportion to the dignity of his life and soul, a glory and dignity of body, - nevertheless in such a way, that even the body which rises again of those who are to be destined to everlasting fire or to severe punishments, is by the very change of the resurrection so incorruptible, that it cannot be corrupted and dissolved even by severe punishments.
    “everlasting fire” is paired with “so incorruptible, that it cannot be corrupted and dissolved.”
    [18]Origen Against Celsus. Book IV. Chap. XVII.
    … if he [Celsus] had reflected on what is appropriate51 to a soul which is to enjoy an everlasting life, and on the opinion which we are to form of its essence and principles, he would not so have ridiculed the entrance of the immortal into a mortal body, which took place not according to the metempsychosis of Plato, but agreeably to another and higher view of things.
    “Everlasting life” is paired with “immortal.”
    [19]The Extant Writings of Julius Africanus. III. Chap XIX
    For, rather than be prevailed on, they chose to be beheaded, and suffered death: which death, being endured for the name of Christ, gained them temporal ignominy indeed among men of this earth, but everlasting honour and glory among the angels; and moving now among them, and exhibiting101 trophies of their sufferings, they enjoy eternal life with the King eternal in the heavens.”.
    “Everlasting honor,””eternal life” and “king eternal” is contrasted with “temporal ignominy.”
    [20]Methodius Oration on the Psalms.1
    Blessed be God; let us proceed, brethren, from wonders to the miracles of the Lord, and as it were, from strength to strength. (Psa_84:8) For just as in a golden chain the links are so intimately joined and connected together, as that the one holds the other, and is fitted on to it, and so carries on the chain — even so the miracles that have been handed down by the holy Gospels, one after the other, lead on the Church of God, which delights in festivity, and refresh it, not with the meat that perisheth, [John 6:27] but with that which endureth unto everlasting life.
    “Everlasting life” is contrasted with “meat that perishes.”
    [21]Lactantius The Divine Institutes. Book III. Chap. IX.
    Therefore it is not the world which is to be contemplated by the eye, for each is a body;33 but it is God who is to be contemplated by the soul: for God, being Himself immortal, willed that the soul also should be everlasting.
    “Everlasting soul” is paired with “immortal.”
    [22]The Divine Institutes. Book IV. Chap. XII
    And they who stood by brought Him near100 before Him. And there was given unto Him a kingdom, and glory, and dominion; and all people, tribes, and languages shall serve Him: and His dominion is everlasting, ,[Daniel 7:14] which shall never pass away, and His kingdom shall not be destroyed.” How then do the Jews both confess and expect the Christ of God?
    “Everlasting dominion” is paired with ‘shall never pass away” and “kingdom shall not be destroyed.
     
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  7. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Thank you for this unsupported opinion. If you won't read the entire 4 posts at least read the first ten verses where Jesus defines "aionios."
    For your reading pleasure here is the definition of "aionios" from Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon one of, if not the, most highly accredited lexicons available. Note the blue highlights indicate the 69 sources the scholars consulted in determining the correct definitions. Should one want to dispute this definition they would have to conclusively show that a majority of the ancient sources are incorrectly interpreted.
    αἰώνιος (ία ③ pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod S 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod S 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos.,Bell. 4, 461αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I b.c.] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248–50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109–28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12. κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod S 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2 (cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9. πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod S 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3;PsSol PsSol 3:12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11 (ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳ be glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186–201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217–28 (J).—DELG s.v.αἰών.M-M. TW. Sv.

    ____________________________________________________________
    Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testtament and other early CHristian literature. (3rd ed., pp. 33–34). Chicago: University of Chicago Press


     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  8. icxn

    icxn Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

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    The primary etymology of the word αἰών is from the words ἀεί (always) and ων (ειμί, is/be/exist), so interpreted means 'that which always is,' so to exclude the eternal as one of its meanings is kind of ironic.
     
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  9. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I could not agree more. Now all we have to do is convince the members of heterodox religious groups who claim that aionios never means eternal.
     
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  10. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

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    Gen. 21:33 is the first instance where God is called eternal, but what does this mean? This is the Hebrew word, עולָם (olam), which is more often translated as forever or everlasting.[1] Based on the word’s etymology, Gene DeWeese defines it as ‘most distant times’[2] and can be used to denote time in the far past or future. The corresponding Greek word, αίών (aeon), is more specifically linked to a lengthy period of time.[3] The times involved in both are clearly beyond the lifetime of human beings; nevertheless there is a temporality in the words being used to define God as eternal. Surprisingly then the traditional Theist understands God’s eternality as being without time.[4]


    [1] E. W. Goodrick and J. R. Kohlenberger III, The NIV Exhaustive Concordance (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1990), p.1564.

    [2] DeWeese, Nature of Time, p. 96.

    [3] DeWeese, Nature of Time, p. 102.

    [4] P. Helm, ‘Divine Timeless Eternity’ in Ganssle (ed.), God and Time: Four Views, pp. 28-91 (28).

    Olam is translated into Greek as Aeon, implying that in the Jewish usage it is either referring to a lack of time or a long period of time. The context of a passage would make that clearer. But I notice that in the section you quote, the word 'eternal' appears only once and then it is in reference to 'eternal life'.... which doesn't appear to help your case (whatever that is: you don't really make it clear except to object to other people's views).

    My contention is that it is used in different ways, either to refer to a long period of time or to a lack of time, and flicking through your references, I seen no reason to change that assessment.
     
  11. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level 3.7 decades ago.
    A concordance is not a lexicon. When I studied Hebrew and Greek we used lexicons not concordances.
    <>A concordance is an alphabetical list of the words (especially the important ones) present in a text, usually with citations of the passages concerned.
    <>A Biblical lexicon is a reference tool that provides meanings, semantic ranges, and significant uses of Biblical words in their original language. This data is organized according to an inventory of lexemes (i.e., a meaningful linguistic unit). Lexicons are particularly helpful in word studies.
    Once again I refer to a lexicon here the Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew lexicon.

    עוֹלָם S5769, 5865 TWOT1631a GK6409, 6518439 n.m. long duration, antiquity, futurity;—ע׳ Gn 9:12 + 405 times; עֹלָם 3:22 + 19 times; עֵילוֹם 2 Ch 33:7, read prob. עוֹלָם (for other explan. v. note in Kit); sf. עֹלָמוֹ Ec 12:5; pl. עוֹלָמִים Is 26:4 + 7 times, עֹלָמִים ψ 145:13 + 2 times; cstr. עוֹלְמֵי Is 45:17;—† 1. of past time: a. ancient time: יְמֵי ע׳ days of old Is 63:9, 11 Am 9:11 Mi 5:1; 7:14 Mal 3:4; יְמוֹת ע׳ Dt 32:7; עַם ע׳ Is 44:7 ancient people; גּוֹי מֵע׳ Je 5:15; חָרְבוֹת ע׳ old waste places Is 58:12 61:4, cf. Ez 26:20 b; פִּתְחֵי ע׳ ancient gates ψ 24:7, 9; ארח ע׳ Jb 22:15; נתבות ע׳ Je 6:16; שְׁבִילֵי ע׳ 18:15; גבול ע׳ Pr 22:28; 23:10; במות ע׳ Ez 36:2; מִן (םֵ)ע׳ from of old Is 64:3 Je 2:20 Jo 2:2, of the fathers Jos 24:2, the prophets Je 28:8, the ancient נפלים Gn 6:4; (Ez 32:27 Co for מערלים; but 1 S 27:8 read מִטֵּלָם for מעולם We Dr HPS); בהם ע׳ long in them Is 64:4 (text dub.). b. מֵתֵי ע׳ the long dead ψ 143:3 La 3:6; so עַם ע׳ Ez 26:20. c. of God, מֵע׳: former acts Is 46:9; as redeemer Is 63:16; of love ψ 25:6, judgment 119:52, dominion Is 63:19; long silence 42:14; 57:11*; his wisdom personif. Pr 8:23; his existence ψ 93:2. d. of things: גבעות ע׳ ancient hills Gn 49:26 (J), Hb 3:6 (|| הררי־עד), Dt 33:15 (|| הררי קדם). e. pl. שְׁנוֹת עולמים ψ 77:6 years of ancient times; דורות עולמים Is 51:9; לעלמים Ec 1:10 in olden times. 2. a. indef. futurity, c. prep. for ever, always (sometimes = during the lifetime); עֶבֶד עולם slave for ever Dt 15:17; 1 S 27:12; Jb 40:28; עָבַד לע׳ serve for ever Ex 21:6 (E), Lv 25:46; עד ע׳ 1 S 1:22; גְּאֻלַּת ע׳ Lv 25:32 redemption at any time; הֲרַת ע׳ Je 20:17 ever pregnant (womb); כְּלִמַּת ע׳ v 11 of persecutors of Jeremiah; חרפת ע׳ 23:40; שַׁלְוֵי ע׳ ψ 73:12 alway at ease; יְחִי לע׳ (יחיה) may the king live always 1 K 1:31; Ne 2:3; cf. אֹרֶךְ יָמִים עולם ועד ψ 21:5; ישׁב עולם לפני אלהים 61:8; so of the pious, לע׳ לא ימוט 15:5; בל ימוט Pr 10:30, cf. ψ 30:7; other phr.: ψ 37:27, 28 41:13; 55:23; 61:8; 73:26; 121:8 Pr 10:25; ע׳ אשׁירה ψ 89:2 I will sing for ever (as long as I live), cf. 52:10; 115:18; 145:1, 2; הוֹדה לע׳ 30:13; 44:9; 52:11; 79:13; other emotions and activities continuous through life 5:12; 31:2 = 71:1, 75:10; 86:12; 119:44, 93, 98, 111, 112 Mi 4:5, cf. לע׳ 2:9. b. = continuous existence, (1) of things: the earth, הָאָרֶץ לְעוֹלָם עֹמֶדֶת Ec 1:4; other phr.: ψ 78:69; 104:5, heavens and contents 148:6, ruined cities Is 25:2; 32:14 Ez 26:21; 27:36; 28:19, ruined lands Je 18:16; 25:9, 12; 49:13, 33; 51:26, 62 Ez 35:9 Zp 2:9; לעד עד ע׳ Is 30:8 for a witness for ever, in a book; (2) of nations: לעולם אהיה 47:7 (Babylon loqu.), cf. ψ 81:16 Ob 10; ישׁב לע׳ of Judah Jo 4:20; (3) families ψ 49:12 Is 14:20; the dynasty of Saul 1 S 13:13; house of Eli 2:30; (4) national relations: איבת ע׳ continual enmity Ez 25:15; 35:5; of exclusion from קהל י׳, עד ע׳ Dt 23:4 = Ne 13:1; various relations Is 32:17; 34:10; חרפת ע׳ perpetual reproach ψ 78:66, of dynasty of David 2 S 3:28; 12:10 1 K 2:33, families v 33 2 K 5:27 ψ 106:31 Je 35:6. c. of divine existence: אל עולם Gn 21:33 (J); אלהי ע׳ Is 40:28; חי אנכי לע׳ Dt 32:40; חֵי הע׳ Dn 12:7; of divine name, זה שׁמי לְע׳ Ex 3:15 (E), cf. 2 Ch 33:7 (v. supr.); blessing and praise of it 2 S 7:26 = 1 Ch 17:24, ψ 72:19; 135:13; of י׳ himself 89:53; attributes, אהבה Je 31:3 1 K 10:9; חסד Is 54:8 ψ 89:2; 138:8; לע׳ חַסְדּוֹ 1 Ch 16:34, 41 2 Ch 5:13; 7:3, 6; 20:21 Ezr 3:11 ψ 100:5; 106:1; 107:1; 118:1, 2, 3, 4, 29; 136:1 + 25 times, Je 33:11; כבוד ψ 104:31; אמת 117:2; 146:6; צדק 119:142; עצה 33:11; reign Ex 15:18 (E), ψ 10:16; 66:7; 92:9; 146:10 Je 10:10 Mi 4:7; יהוה לע׳ ישׁב ψ 9:8; 29:10; 102:13 La 5:19; presence in Zion 1 Ch 23:25; Is 33:14; 60:19, 20 Ez 37:28; 43:7, 9; his salvation Is 51:6, 8; זרעת ע׳ Dt 33:27 everlasting arms; כל אשׁר יעשׂה האלהים יהיה לע׳ Ec 3:14. d. of God’s covenant: בְּרִית ע׳ everlasting covenant Gn 9:16; 17:7, 13, 19 Ex 31:16 Lv 24:8 Nu 18:19 (all P), 2 S 23:5; 1 Ch 16:17 = ψ 105:10, Is 24:5; 55:3; 61:8 Je 32:40; 50:5; Ez 16:60; 37:26; covenant with Noah, לְדֹרֹת ע׳ Gn 9:12 (P); God remembers it 1 Ch 16:15 = ψ 105:8, ψ 111:5; will not break it, לע׳ Ju 2:1; אוֹת ע׳ Ex 31:17 (P); אוֹת עד ע׳ Dt 28:46. e. of God’s laws: דבר(ים) Is 59:21 ψ 119:89; משׁפט 119:160; עדות v 144, 152; חק ע׳ Ex 29:28; 30:21 (E), Lv 6:11, 15; 7:34; 10:15; 24:9 Nu 18:8, 11, 19 (P), also Je 5:22 (of bounds of sea); חק עד ע׳ Ex 12:24 (J), חֻקַּת ע׳ v 14, 17; 27:21; 28:43; 29:9 Lv 3:17; 7:36; 10:9; 16:29, 31, 34; 17:7; 23:14, 21, 31, 41; 24:3, 8; Nu 10:8; 15:15; 18:23; 19:10, 21 (P) (most of these in fact specif. Jewish and temporary); temple to bear God’s name, עד ע׳ 1 K 9:3 = 2 Ch 7:16; לע׳ 2 K 21:7 2 Ch 33:4; consecrated לע׳ 30:8; its ceremonies לע׳ 2:3; Levit. priesthood, לשׁרתו עד ע׳ 1 Ch 15:2; Aaronic priesthood, לברך בשׁמי עד ע׳ 23:13(). f. of God’s promises: his word, יקום לע׳ Is 40:8; promised dynasty of David, עד (ה)ע׳ 2 S 7:13, 16(), 25 = 1 Ch 17:12, 14(), 23 ψ 18:51 = 2 S 22:51; 1 K 2:33, 45 1 Ch 22:10 ψ 89:5; לע׳ 1 K 9:5; 1 Ch 28:4, 7; 2 Ch 13:5 ψ 89:29, 37 2 S 7:29() = 1 Ch 17:27(); of holy land 1 Ch 28:8, אֲחֻזַּת ע׳ Gn 17:8; 48:4 Lv 25:34 (P); given לע׳ Ex 32:13 (J) 2 Ch 20:7; עד ע׳ Gn 13:15, inherited לע׳ Is 60:21 ψ 37:18; עד ע׳ Is 34:17; dwelt in עד ע׳ Ez 37:25; other blessings, לע׳ Dt 5:29 Ho 2:21; עד ע׳ Dt 12:28; 2 S 7:24 = 1 Ch 17:22, ψ 133:3; שִׂמְחַת ע׳ Is 35:10; 51:11; 61:7; דֶּרֶךְ ע׳ ψ 139:24; שׁם ע׳ Is 56:5; 63:12; אות ע׳ 55:13; גאון ע׳ 60:15; Jerus. to abide לע׳ Je 17:25 ψ 125:1, cf. Je 31:40; עד ע׳ ψ 48:9. g. of relations between God and his people, לע׳ 1 Ch 29:18 ψ 45:18; 85:6; 103:9; 145:21; Is 57:16; Je 3:5, 12; La 3:31; Jo 2:26, 27; עד (ה)ע׳ ψ 28:9 Mal 1:4. h. of Messianic dynasty and king: (ל)ע׳ ψ 110:4; having divine throne 45:7; name endures 72:17; established 89:38; God blesses him 45:3; of his reign, מעתה ועד ע׳ Is 9:6. i. = indefinite, unending future: live לע׳ Gn 3:22; Jb 7:16; הנביאים הלע׳ יִחְיוּ Zc 1:5 the prophets, can they live for ever? cf. חדל לע׳ ψ 49:9; c. neg. never Ezr 9:12; Pr 27:24. j. after death: שׁנת ע׳ Je 51:39, 57; בית ע׳ Ec 12:5; חַיֵּי ע׳ Dn 12:2; דראון ע׳ v 2; also v 3 Jon 2:7; Ec 2:16; 9:6. k. = age (duration) of the world: את העלם נתן בְּלִבָּם Ec 3:11 the age of the world he hath set, etc. (cf. especially NH; others i). 1. pl. intens. everlastingness, eternity: תשׁועת עולמים Is 45:17; צדק עלמים Dn 9:24; צור עולמים Is 26:4 (RVm rock of ages); מלכוּת כל עלמים ψ 145:13; also 61:5; 77:8; 1 K 8:13 = 2 Ch 6:2. m. special phr.: מ(ה)עולם (ו)עד (ה)עולם (מן) from everlasting to everlasting, of י׳ ψ 90:2, חסד י׳ 103:17; benedictions 1 Ch 16:36 = ψ 106:48, Ne 9:5; 1 Ch 29:10 ψ 41:14; the land given למן עולם ועד עולם Je 7:7; 25:5; מעתה ועד עולם from now and for ever ψ 115:18; 121:8 (i.e. as long as one lives); of people’s hope in God 131:3; dynasty of David Is 9:6; of God’s acts, words, etc. Mi 4:7; Is 59:21 ψ 125:2, cf. 113:2;—v. further I. עַד p. 723.
    Brown, F., Driver, S. R., & Briggs, C. A. (1977). Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (pp. 761–763). Oxford: Clarendon Press.
    Who better than native Hebrew speaking scholars know the meaning of Hebrew words?
    In the 1917 Jewish Publication Society translation of the OT olam is translated "everlasting" 67 times, eternal 2 times.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  12. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Is. 34: 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch,

    her dust into burning sulfur;

    her land will become blazing pitch!

    10

    It will not be quenched night or day;

    its smoke will rise forever.

    From generation to generation it will lie desolate;

    no one will ever pass through it again.

    Is Edom still smoking?
     
  13. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

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    And again with your long list only two actually refer to 'eternity', which again indicates that there are multiple ways to use the word.
     
  14. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Although the topic of this thread is the meaning of the Greek words aion and aionios in the NT I will address your post. What exactly is your point?
    Is the meaning of a word determined by how it is used in one verse?
    If that is true then Simon must have been literally a stone "Petros" when Jesus called him that
    James and John must have been literal sons of thunder when Jesus called them that.
    Peter must have literally been Satan when Jesus called him that.
    Also Herod must have literally been a fox when Jesus called him that.
    Perhaps you should obtain a copy of the 1917 Jewish Publication Society translation of the OT which can be D/L free online.
    Who better than the native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars who translated the JPS know the correct meaning of Hebrew words. Here is Isa 34:10 from the JPS

    Isaiah 34:10
    10 It shall not be quenched night nor day, the smoke thereof shall go up for ever; from generation to generation it shall lie waste: none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
    If you want to argue perhaps you should start with the native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars who translated the JPS.

     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
  15. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    If you would quote the part of my post you are talking about I might be able to reply. Are you talking about the definition of Olam that I posted? When a word is used hyperbolically that does not change its inherent meaning. Please see my response to Bling immediately above re: Simon, James and John, Peter and Herod.
     
  16. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

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    Go through your posts. The interpretations are all shown in red. Now count how many of them are referring to 'eternal' or 'eternity'
     
  17. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    That is correct. I counted 10 in the definition of "olam." But there are other red highlights which do not include eternal/everlasting or other adjective but refer back to the nearest adjective which is eternal/everlasting that is why I highlighted them. If you wish you can check those against the JPS.
    If one wants an unimpeachable source to determine the meaning of "olam" may I suggest the 1917 Jewish Publication Society [JPS] OT translation which can be D/L free online.
    Bible (Jewish Publication Society 1917) - Wikisource, the free online library
    Who better than the native Hebrew speaking scholars who translated the JPS know the meaning of "olam" and other words? I counted 67 times where Olam is translated "everlasting," 2 times where it is translated "eternal." and "for ever" 341 times.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
  18. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    If the Lord did not give us a resurrection body? These type of arguments would go on for all eternity. That is why the Lord will end it once and for all. For, when we receive our new glorious bodies like His own, they will be absolutely perfect - without a fallen nature. Those on earth who now do not wish to walk in the Spirit, but walking in the spirit of their intellectual pride, will in the resurrection be changed and no longer a nuisance. Eternal relief! :angel:... the pain is gone!

    God has chosen to allow for the freedom of choice in time - for either good, or evil - so that fallen angels can see a reflection of themselves in the negative thinking and actions of men. For all the angels (both elect and fallen angels) are witnessing to the thinking and actions of men, to see what righteousness produces, and what unrighteousness in its many ways, tears down.

    This time for human freedom to do either good, or evil.. was designed by God to serve as evidence to send a message to the fallen angels who do the same things. Its to show as to why the Lord can not allow them back in, lest we suffer for all eternity. For as negative men attack and wish to destroy joy? So the fallen angels are. They get to see what scum they really are.

    Fallen man is Evidence "A" presented in the Supreme Court of Heaven. Fallen man's actions reveals the reasoning as to why God's judgment of fallen angels must stand as God has decreed. "You think I want that roaming free in my kingdom forever?!" For, when eternity begins God demands all will be free to be who they are. The righteous will be in celebration continuously. That is why evil must be quarantined in fire. For if unbelievers were set free we will never be allowed to be free without interference and negativity forever.

    When a believer walks after the flesh he becomes and imitator of how he would be as an unbeliever. So, when demons and Satan accuse and condemn such men, they in essence are condemning their own way of thinking and themselves. Once more, proving not to judge (condemn) others unless you end up judging yourself. For as Satan and demons now judge (condemn) they end up admitting that they need to be condemned.


    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge,
    you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured
    back to you."
    Mat 7:1-2​

    That's the neat righteous trick of God! Get the evil accusers to end up becoming their own judge and executioner!

    Its why God allowed all to see King David's terrible sins. Satan hated how the Lord loved David, and could not wait for an excuse to condemn David to the Lord. In the mean while? All Satan accused David of was nullified on the Cross!

    God on one hand wipes the slate clean for believers (the Cross), while Satan ends up throwing himself into the Lake of Fire by means of what he accuses men of doing which is actually condemning himself. Accusing others of the very same things he is the father of such doing. In allowing Satan to so so? Satan is admitting he deserves condemnation.. God's judgment thus is vindicated before all..... For all eternity.



    Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength,
    and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for
    the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day
    and night, has been cast down."
    Rev 12:10​

    :priest: The Lord is now righteously tricking the great evil Trickster by permitting Satan to accuse us! For, since when does a omniscient God need someone to tell Him what his people are doing? Satan is now digging his own grave.

    Romans 8:28, does it again!

    grace and peace!
     
  19. JSRG

    JSRG Member

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    I'm confused here. Some of the works you cite are either not in Greek or, while originally in Greek, exist to us only in translation. For example:
    We have very little of Against Heresies in the original Greek. What we largely rely on is a Latin translation (apparently an Armenian translation of Books 4 and 5 is preserved, but that's inapplicable here). There are fragments of the original Greek version of Against Heresies that survive, either through literal fragments of paper or through quotations by other writers of the original text... is this portion preserved in one of those? Otherwise, it's just a guess that the word "aionios" was found in the original Greek.
    The same thing actually applies here. De Principiis (On the First Principles) was written in Greek, but we don't have the Greek outside of some scattered quotations from it. Our "full" version is just Rufinus's highly edited Latin translation. Again we do have portions of the original Greek, but does it include this section?

    While in the above examples it is possible that the passages were preserved in some Greek text, that's not the case here because Cyprian wrote in Latin. "Aionios" couldn't have been in there!

    Novatian also wrote in Latin, not Greek. Thus there was no usage of "aionios."

    So I'm kind of confused as to how you're citing these for usage of "aionios" when the word inherently can't be in there because it's a Greek, not a Latin, word. While it's possible that Origen and Irenaeus did use "aionios" in their original Greek text, that's ultimately speculation, and not really something to build an argument about the meaning of "aionios" on.
     
  20. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    US-Constitution

    Question. Are you arguing to say that there is no such thing as eternal life? I am confused as to what you wish to prove.
     
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