The Mass and the ECF's

[CatholicFlame]

Hi there,

I am doing a study on the Mass in the early church fathers. I have some quotes from them and was wondering if anyone out there could add some more, especially from the years 60-300 A.D.

Thank you!

This is what I have so far. I think that there is alot of evidence that the mass was practiced by the early church and would like to put together a resource for that belief.

Here are the quotes I have so far:

98 A.D. Clement Letter to the Corinthians 44:4-5
"Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its sacrifices.Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release"

110 A.D. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Philadelphians 4
"Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God"

140 A.D. Didache 14
"But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

155 A.D. Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 41
"He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane [it]."


189 A.D. Irenaeus Against Heresies 4,17,5
"He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks, and said, “This is My body." And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant; which the Church receiving from the apostles, offers to God throughout all the world, to Him who gives us as the means of subsistence the first-fruits of His own gifts in the New Testament"



As far as I know, these are the correct dates. I did come across a site that said the Didache was written in 70 A.D. and that clement's letter was written in 80 A.D. but I am not sure which dates is more correct.

Do you have any more quotes so that I can put this resource together well?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Not sure if all of these are useful but check this site and look on the page under Tradition/ Church Fathers, noted some quotes there that you might add.

http://scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#tradition-I

and an ebook you can download for reference. Have not read but others say it is good.
http://www.plough.com/ebooks/earlychristians.html

anyway hope that helps

 

[CatholicFlame]

Thanks Bubba, that does help alot.

 

[patricius79]

Hey man, I've got Cyril and Athanasius too if you want let me know

Irenaeus on Transubstantiation


"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).

"He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?" (ibid., 5:2).

"He took from among creation that which is bread, and gave thanks, saying, ‘This is my body.’ The cup likewise, which is from among the creation to which we belong, he confessed to be his blood. He taught the new sacrifice of the new covenant, of which Malachi, one of the twelve [minor] prophets, had signified beforehand: ‘You do not do my will, says the Lord Almighty, and I will not accept a sacrifice at your hands. For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure sacrifice; for great is my name among the Gentiles, says the Lord Almighty’ [Mal. 1:10–11]. By these words he makes it plain that the former people will cease to make offerings to God; but that in every place sacrifice will be offered to him, and indeed, a pure one, for his name is glorified among the Gentiles" (Against Heresies 4:17:5 [A.D. 189]).

 

[East Anglican]

Surely the best places to start are The Divine Liturgy of Saint Basil and The Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom.

The Divine Liturgy of Saint Basil the Great — Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

The Divine Liturgy

 

[Hairy Tic]

Hi there,

I am doing a study on the Mass in the early church fathers. I have some quotes from them and was wondering if anyone out there could add some more, especially from the years 60-300 A.D.

Thank you!

This is what I have so far. I think that there is alot of evidence that the mass was practiced by the early church and would like to put together a resource for that belief.

Here are the quotes I have so far:

98 A.D. Clement Letter to the Corinthians 44:4-5
"Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its sacrifices.Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release"

110 A.D. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Philadelphians 4
"Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God"

140 A.D. Didache 14
"But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

155 A.D. Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 41
"He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane [it]."


189 A.D. Irenaeus Against Heresies 4,17,5
"He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks, and said, “This is My body." And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant; which the Church receiving from the apostles, offers to God throughout all the world, to Him who gives us as the means of subsistence the first-fruits of His own gifts in the New Testament"



As far as I know, these are the correct dates. I did come across a site that said the Didache was written in 70 A.D. and that clement's letter was written in 80 A.D. but I am not sure which dates is more correct.

Do you have any more quotes so that I can put this resource together well?

## St. Justin's Apology & the Legation (or Embassy) of Athenagoras are worth reading - both are second-century works.

But secondary studies are indispensable, such as those of Joseph Jungmann S.J. Anything by him is vital reading. Especially:

• The Mass of the Roman Rite

It depends how thorough you want to be. Personally, I don't find strings of quotations w/out context or discussion of their meaning particularly helpful - it's too much like proof-texting: w/out context, the same words can be taken from Irenaeus or Vincent of Lerins, & used to prove entirely different ideas by Orthodox, Catholics, or Anglicans. Which has happened, to the "Vincentian Canon", & to the famous passage in Irenaeus' Against Heresies, Book 3 Chapter 3 Section 3

The dates of 70 & 80 for the Didache & Clement of Rome are the same as those suggested in "Redating the New Testament" by the late Bishop John Robinson. They depend on one reading of the evidence, while other dates depend on other readings of the evidence. Robinson was in no way attempting to suggest that his conclusions were beyond dispute, & he says so.

It's misleading to talk of the Mass unless one defines what one means. The name is from the fourth century - the Mass is the form taken in the Latin speaking West by the Eucharistic Liturgy. One cannot talk about "the Mass" before the fourth century or in liturgies not derived from the Latin-speaking Church. The Apostles did not celebrate the Mass - what they did celebrate, developed into the Mass of the Latin Churches, & the Orthodox Liturgies, & the Liturgies of the other ancient Churches.

But read Jungmann, if at all possible

 

[sensational]

Hi there,

I am doing a study on the Mass in the early church fathers. I have some quotes from them and was wondering if anyone out there could add some more, especially from the years 60-300 A.D.

Thank you!

This is what I have so far. I think that there is alot of evidence that the mass was practiced by the early church and would like to put together a resource for that belief.

Here are the quotes I have so far:

98 A.D. Clement Letter to the Corinthians 44:4-5
"Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its sacrifices.Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release"

110 A.D. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Philadelphians 4
"Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God"

140 A.D. Didache 14
"But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

155 A.D. Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 41
"He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane [it]."


189 A.D. Irenaeus Against Heresies 4,17,5
"He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks, and said, “This is My body." And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant; which the Church receiving from the apostles, offers to God throughout all the world, to Him who gives us as the means of subsistence the first-fruits of His own gifts in the New Testament"



As far as I know, these are the correct dates. I did come across a site that said the Didache was written in 70 A.D. and that clement's letter was written in 80 A.D. but I am not sure which dates is more correct.

Do you have any more quotes so that I can put this resource together well?

this bibliography is a good place to start, I have started studying the history of the Mass myself and found these resources helpful.

Adolf Adam, The Eucharistic Celebration: The Source and Summit of Faith, trans. Robert C. Schultz (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1994).

Paul F. Bradshaw, The Search for the Origins of Christian Worship: Sources and Methods for the Study of Early Liturgy, rev. ed. (New York: Oxford University Press, 2002).

Paul F. Bradshaw, Eucharistic Origins (New York: Oxford University Press, 2004).

Louis Bouyer, Eucharist: Theology and Spirituality of the Eucharistic Prayer, trans. Charles U. Quinn (Notre Dame: University of Notre Dame Press, 1968).

Robert Cabié, The Eucharist, Vol. 2 of The Church at Prayer, ed. A.G. Martimort (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1986).

Anscar J. Chupungco, ed., The Eucharist, vol. 3 of Handbook for Liturgical Studies, 3 vol. (Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1999).

William R. Crockett, Eucharist: Symbol of Transformation (New York: Pueblo, 1989 / Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press).

Gregory Dix, The Shape of the Liturgy (London: Westminster, 1945). Dated in many respects, but one of the most influential studies of the century.

Johannes Emminghaus, The Eucharist: Essence, Form, Celebration, 2nd ed. (Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1997). A classic.

Edward Foley, From Age to Age: How Christians Celebrated the Eucharist (Chicago: Liturgy Training Publications, 1991).

Josef A. Jungmann, The Mass of the Roman Rite: Its Origins and Development, trans. Francis A. Brunner (reprint of 1956 edition: Westminster, MD: Christian Classics, 1986). Dated, but an extraordinary scholarly achievement, and deeply influential on the shape of the post-Vatican II eucharist.

Edward J. Kilmartin, The Eucharist in the West: History and Theology, ed. Robert J. Daly (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press [A Pueblo Book], 1999).

Theodor Klauser, A Short History of the Western Liturgy: An Account and Some Reflections, 2nd ed., trans. John Halliburton (New York: Oxford University Press, 1979).

Enrico Mazza, The Celebration of the Eucharist: The Origin of the Rite and the Development of Its Interpretation, trans. Matthew J. O’Connell (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1999.

Marcel Metzger, History of the Liturgy: The Major Stages, trans. Madeleine Beaumont (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1997).

Michael O’Carroll, Corpus Christi: An Encyclopedia of the Eucharist (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1988).

David N. Power, The Eucharistic Mystery: Revitalizing the Tradition (New York: Crossroads, 1992.

Kevin Seasoltz, ed., Living Bread, Saving Cup: Readings on the Eucharist (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1982). A valuable collection of essays.

Herman Wegman, Christian Worship in East and West: A Study Guide to Liturgical History, trans. Gordon Latrop (New York: Pueblo / Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1985).

 

[Clement Alex]

The above list is great. I would add one more to it, Mike Aquilina The Mass of the Early Christians. It has a short introduction to the writing and liturgy and then pretty much just quotes in context the writings or liturgy from the Fathers.

 

[Tomyris]

Hi there,

I am doing a study on the Mass in the early church fathers. I have some quotes from them and was wondering if anyone out there could add some more, especially from the years 60-300 A.D.

Thank you!

This is what I have so far. I think that there is alot of evidence that the mass was practiced by the early church and would like to put together a resource for that belief.

Here are the quotes I have so far:

98 A.D. Clement Letter to the Corinthians 44:4-5
"Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its sacrifices.Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release"

110 A.D. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Philadelphians 4
"Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God"

140 A.D. Didache 14
"But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

155 A.D. Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 41
"He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane [it]."


189 A.D. Irenaeus Against Heresies 4,17,5
"He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks, and said, “This is My body." And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant; which the Church receiving from the apostles, offers to God throughout all the world, to Him who gives us as the means of subsistence the first-fruits of His own gifts in the New Testament"



As far as I know, these are the correct dates. I did come across a site that said the Didache was written in 70 A.D. and that clement's letter was written in 80 A.D. but I am not sure which dates is more correct.

Do you have any more quotes so that I can put this resource together well?

Take a look at Justin Martyr's First Apology, esp. around 61. He describes a church service in Rome. Also Melito of Sardis' Peri Pascha would seem to be relevant, as he seems to have viewed things from a very Hebrew-Christian perspective. You might look into the Quartodeciman controversy on the way, although it would be more background to a discussion of the Mass per se than integral to the study.

Although I have not seen it, find a copy of Ott's work concerning historical theology. Also Jaroslav Pelikan is a name you should become familiar with. Cyril of Jerusalem wrote Catechetical Lectures that you might find relevant, and there are the Apostolic Constitutions to examine. This will no doubt lead to more material than you can cope with in your entire lifetime, which makes Patristics overwhelming. No doubt this is incomplete.

There is also the Liturgy of St.James, which is reputed to be the first liturgy written. Arguably the copies we have have been infused with later theological conceptions, but it is nonetheless of interest.

EDIT: I did not realized there was more to this thread than the OP when I wrote the above, and I consider it bad form to jump to the bottom of a thread and start pounding away. I apologize for ignoring what I was actually ignorant of.

 

[Tigger45]

I was going to start a simular thread today myself. I'm just posting to get updates so I can follow along. Thx :{)

 

[Shane R]

It seems like the Patristic writings on doctrines like the Eucharist, Baptism, and the Trinity become most prolific around the period of the council of Constantinople (381). In that general period fall Basil of Caesarea, Athanasius of Alexandria, Ambrose of Milan, John Crysostom, Gregory Nazianzen, Gregory of Nyssa, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Jerome (as well as a few more minor figures). This is a bit later than you request, but it is the richest material of the ECF's.

 

[Cappadocious]

Many statements about the Mass/Liturgy are contained in the canons of the Church.

Investigate the canons of the various councils, both the Imperial Ecumenical Councils, and the local councils in various regions.

local councils like:

Gangra
Carthage
Trullo

There are also canon lists like the Apostolic Constitutions.

Remember not to misinterpret the local canons as magic wands for declaring this or that for all time. They really didn't work that way.

 

[fatherjimparker]

Hi there,

I am doing a study on the Mass in the early church fathers. I have some quotes from them and was wondering if anyone out there could add some more, especially from the years 60-300 A.D.

Thank you!

This is what I have so far. I think that there is alot of evidence that the mass was practiced by the early church and would like to put together a resource for that belief.

Here are the quotes I have so far:

98 A.D. Clement Letter to the Corinthians 44:4-5
"Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its sacrifices.Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release"

110 A.D. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Philadelphians 4
"Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God"

140 A.D. Didache 14
"But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

155 A.D. Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 41
"He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane [it]."


189 A.D. Irenaeus Against Heresies 4,17,5
"He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks, and said, “This is My body." And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant; which the Church receiving from the apostles, offers to God throughout all the world, to Him who gives us as the means of subsistence the first-fruits of His own gifts in the New Testament"



As far as I know, these are the correct dates. I did come across a site that said the Didache was written in 70 A.D. and that clement's letter was written in 80 A.D. but I am not sure which dates is more correct.

Do you have any more quotes so that I can put this resource together well?

See:


Justin Martyr: (AD 103-165) The First Apology of Justin
Chapter LXVII.—Weekly Worship of the Christians.

…… (1) And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and
(2) the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits;
(3) then, when the reader has ceased, the president1 verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.
(4) Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended,
(5) bread and wine and water are brought, and the president1 in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and
(6) the people assent, saying Amen;
(7) and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, (the Eucharist) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons………….

(1) Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,

(8) He (Jesus) taught them (the apostles & disciples) these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

(1) Justin described a gathering

(a) of the entire local church,

(b) at a place which would accommodate them,

(c) on Sunday.


He then described the process of the meeting which are easily identified as:

A. the Liturgy of the word
(2) The reading of the Gospels or Prophets
(3) The sermon
(4) The prayers of the people

B. The Liturgy of the Eucharist
(5) The consecration of the bread and wine (by the presider, AKA: "priest")
(6) The “great Amen”
(7) The people receive the Eucharist

The source of this form of liturgy: Justin stated that it was Jesus who taught this form of worship. (8) Thus, Justin refuted the notion that the Mass was a later development.

What Justin describes is the basic format of the liturgy which is followed to this day in all Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Coptic and Assyrian Churches.

1. The “president” refers to the presiding presbyter or the bishop. The word “presbyter” has come down to us in modern English as “priest.”

 

[Job8]

Take a look at Justin Martyr's First Apology, esp. around 61.

Yes he does and there is no way that you could equate what he describes with the Mass. Since he lived while the apostolic age was coming to a close, what he describes is closer to the New Testament than any to the RCC's Mass. His First Apology would have been written around 150 AD.

 

[Cappadocious]

Yes he does and there is no way that you could equate what he describes with the Mass.

You don't think there are some similarities?