The man born blind

YesMe

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One of the thing that got my attention is the story of the man born blind that was healed by Christ.

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So the question is, how could that man sin even before being born, because if you look at the question of His disciples, they asked who did sin, the man or his parents, that he was born blind?

Now, I would understand if they would have asked only about his parents, I know about the generational sin, and that would make sense, they sinned and as a result, their child was born blind, but the disciples asked also if this man sinned so how could he sin even before being born so that he was born blind? Notice the expression "who did sin", it's about the past, but before being born, the man had no past because he did no exist in this reality before being born, yet they asked this question.

Notice that Christ did not rebuke them about this strange question, but He continued the conversation saying that none of them sinned.

The Jews had no belief in past lives yet His disciples, by using that question,show signs of having this belief, and more importantly, Christ did not rebuke them because of this strange question.
 

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One of the thing that got my attention is the story of the man born blind that was healed by Christ.

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So the question is, how could that man sin even before being born, because if you look at the question of His disciples, they asked who did sin, the man or his parents, that he was born blind?

Now, I would understand if they would have asked only about his parents, I know about the generational sin, and that would make sense, they sinned and as a result, their child was born blind, but the disciples asked also if this man sinned so how could he sin even before being born so that he was born blind? Notice the expression "who did sin", it's about the past, but before being born, the man had no past because he did no exist in this reality before being born, yet they asked this question.

Notice that Christ did not rebuke them about this strange question, but He continued the conversation saying that none of them sinned.

The jews had no belief in past lives yet His disciples, by using that question,show signs of having this belief, and more importantly, Christ did not rebuke them because of this strange question.

You might be reading too much into it. The meaning of the question may well be "how could this man sin before he was born"?
 
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Gregorikos

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One of the thing that got my attention is the story of the man born blind that was healed by Christ.

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So the question is, how could that man sin even before being born, because if you look at the question of His disciples, they asked who did sin, the man or his parents, that he was born blind?

Now, I would understand if they would have asked only about his parents, I know about the generational sin, and that would make sense, they sinned and as a result, their child was born blind, but the disciples asked also if this man sinned so how could he sin even before being born so that he was born blind? Notice the expression "who did sin", it's about the past, but before being born, the man had no past because he did no exist in this reality before being born, yet they asked this question.

Notice that Christ did not rebuke them about this strange question, but He continued the conversation saying that none of them sinned.

The jews had no belief in past lives yet His disciples, by using that question,show signs of having this belief, and more importantly, Christ did not rebuke them because of this strange question.

Jews believed that pious souls were reincarnated as a reward, not punishment; and that the wicked were put into eternal prisons to be tormented forever (Josephus, Antiquities, Book 18,1:6, and War, Book 2,8:14). Some Asiatic nations and some Jews believed souls came back into bodies as a penalty for sins committed in a preexistent state. Controversies raged over whether some physical infirmity was the result of one's sins before birth, even in the womb, or sins by the parents. They held that marks on the body proved sin in the soul. Hindus identified the sins of a previous life with afflictions of the present. For example, headaches were for irreverence to parents; epilepsy for poisoning someone; pain in the eyes for coveting another man's wife; blindness for murder of mother; etc. John 9:2 (Dake Study Bible Notes)
 
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YesMe

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You might be reading too much into it. The meaning of the question may well be "how could this man sin before he was born"?

This is your interpretation which is way off of the real question, but look at the real question, they were intrigued by the fact that he was born blind so they asked who did sin, this man or his parents.
 
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YesMe

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Jews believed that pious souls were reincarnated as a reward, not punishment; and that the wicked were put into eternal prisons to be tormented forever (Josephus, Antiquities, Book 18,1:6, and War, Book 2,8:14). Some Asiatic nations and some Jews believed souls came back into bodies as a penalty for sins committed in a preexistent state. Controversies raged over whether some physical infirmity was the result of one's sins before birth, even in the womb, or sins by the parents. They held that marks on the body proved sin in the soul. Hindus identified the sins of a previous life with afflictions of the present. For example, headaches were for irreverence to parents; epilepsy for poisoning someone; pain in the eyes for coveting another man's wife; blindness for murder of mother; etc. John 9:2 (Dake Study Bible Notes)

Finally someone who actually sees that this question was referring to past lives, to me, it's very important that Christ did not rebuke them, this tells a lot and shows that the truth is way more profound than we can think of.

When I first noticed this I was really intrigued by it.
 
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One of the thing that got my attention is the story of the man born blind that was healed by Christ.

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So the question is, how could that man sin even before being born, because if you look at the question of His disciples, they asked who did sin, the man or his parents, that he was born blind?

Now, I would understand if they would have asked only about his parents, I know about the generational sin, and that would make sense, they sinned and as a result, their child was born blind, but the disciples asked also if this man sinned so how could he sin even before being born so that he was born blind? Notice the expression "who did sin", it's about the past, but before being born, the man had no past because he did no exist in this reality before being born, yet they asked this question.

Notice that Christ did not rebuke them about this strange question, but He continued the conversation saying that none of them sinned.

The jews had no belief in past lives yet His disciples, by using that question,show signs of having this belief, and more importantly, Christ did not rebuke them because of this strange question.
All that happens happened already in God's plan and is unchangeable.
 
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One of the thing that got my attention is the story of the man born blind that was healed by Christ.

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So the question is, how could that man sin even before being born, because if you look at the question of His disciples, they asked who did sin, the man or his parents, that he was born blind?

Now, I would understand if they would have asked only about his parents, I know about the generational sin, and that would make sense, they sinned and as a result, their child was born blind, but the disciples asked also if this man sinned so how could he sin even before being born so that he was born blind? Notice the expression "who did sin", it's about the past, but before being born, the man had no past because he did no exist in this reality before being born, yet they asked this question.

Notice that Christ did not rebuke them about this strange question, but He continued the conversation saying that none of them sinned.

The jews had no belief in past lives yet His disciples, by using that question,show signs of having this belief, and more importantly, Christ did not rebuke them because of this strange question.

One thing I have come to learn about the Lord is, He deals with every individual differently and according to their level of spiritual growth. Maybe Christ had to respond as He did, simply because the disciples had a lot of spiritual growing up to do.


Actually, reading through it, that was a perfect response by Christ there as everything has to point us back to The Lord somehow whether good or bad.
 
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Gregorikos

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So they were also aware of past lives?

Some of them believed in past lives. That doesn't make it true. John 9:2 only expresses that someone asked the question. It does not give any support for the believe in past lives.

Hebrews 9:27 is a strong repudiation of reincarnation.
 
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YesMe

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It's a real bible verse, no interpretation, nothing, black and white, and yet you still can't see that in biblical terms, it would not be possible to sin even before being born, and yet they asked that question and Christ did not rebuke them, he only said that none have sinned, but not about the fact that it was not possible to sin before being born.

I am asking about that question of theirs.
 
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YesMe

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Some of them believed in past lives. That doesn't make it true. John 9:2 only expresses that someone asked the question. It does not give any support for the believe in past lives.

Hebrews 9:27 is a strong repudiation of reincarnation.

Not someone, but the disciples, the very people where were with Him.

Anyway, I hope someone can see deeper into this and do more research as I did for myself.
 
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Gregorikos

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It's a real bible verse, no interpretation, nothing, black and white, and yet you still can't see that in biblical terms, it would not be possible to sin even before being born, and yet they asked that question and Christ did not rebuke them, he only said that none have sinned, but not about the fact that it was not possible to sin before being born.

I am asking about that question of theirs.

There are several possibilities for what this disciple implied other than reincarnation:

Moreover, the suggestion that the man himself might have been at fault seems to rest on Jewish speculation with regard to transmission of guilt or something carried over from Rabbinic Judaism, where, for example, in Midrash Rabbah on Dt. 31:14, a pregnant woman who sins makes her unborn child to sin (cf. N. P. Williams, Ideas of the Fall and Original Sin, 1927, p. 98). John 9 (Zondervan Bible Commentary)

The disciples suggest two possibilities: (1) The man had sinned in his mother’s womb and had been suffering for his own prenatal sin ever since birth. (2) His parents had sinned and he’d been suffering since birth for their sin. Jesus rejects both possibilities. The man’s blindness represents a state of sin but didn’t result from sinning. John 9:1 (Robert Gundry Commentary NT)

The disciples’ assumption that either the man himself or his parents must have been at fault was in line with contemporary theories. Some of the rabbis taught that it was possible to sin before birth. John 9:1 (New Bible Commentary)

Jewish tradition affirmed that people sometimes suffered because of their ancestors’ sins, but at least occasionally also allowed the possibility of a person sinning before birth. John 9:2 (NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible)

The rabbis had developed the principle that “there is no death without sin, and there is no suffering without iniquity” (cf. Introduction to Job: Theological Theme and Message). They were even capable of thinking that a child could sin in the womb or that its soul might have sinned in a preexistent state. John 9:2 (NIV Study Bible Notes)
 
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Whitelinen

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It's a real bible verse, no interpretation, nothing, black and white, and yet you still can't see that in biblical terms, it would not be possible to sin even before being born, and yet they asked that question and Christ did not rebuke them, he only said that none have sinned, but not about the fact that it was not possible to sin before being born.

I am asking about that question of theirs.
We maybe don't have the whole conversation recorded, only the pertinent parts. The object of the lesson was that the man was born blind for the sake of Jesus to heal him.

'but that the works of God should be made manifest in him'

He was born blind to be there at the time and place the Jesus came along and could manifest his power over creation and heal him. Just as the storm rose up so he could calm the waters.

He may have had a long and lengthy discussion with them later on about their question.
 
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YesMe

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There are several possibilities for what this disciple implied other than reincarnation:

Moreover, the suggestion that the man himself might have been at fault seems to rest on Jewish speculation with regard to transmission of guilt or something carried over from Rabbinic Judaism, where, for example, in Midrash Rabbah on Dt. 31:14, a pregnant woman who sins makes her unborn child to sin (cf. N. P. Williams, Ideas of the Fall and Original Sin, 1927, p. 98). John 9 (Zondervan Bible Commentary)

The disciples suggest two possibilities: (1) The man had sinned in his mother’s womb and had been suffering for his own prenatal sin ever since birth. (2) His parents had sinned and he’d been suffering since birth for their sin. Jesus rejects both possibilities. The man’s blindness represents a state of sin but didn’t result from sinning. John 9:1 (Robert Gundry Commentary NT)

The disciples’ assumption that either the man himself or his parents must have been at fault was in line with contemporary theories. Some of the rabbis taught that it was possible to sin before birth. John 9:1 (New Bible Commentary)

Jewish tradition affirmed that people sometimes suffered because of their ancestors’ sins, but at least occasionally also allowed the possibility of a person sinning before birth. John 9:2 (NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible)

The rabbis had developed the principle that “there is no death without sin, and there is no suffering without iniquity” (cf. Introduction to Job: Theological Theme and Message). They were even capable of thinking that a child could sin in the womb or that its soul might have sinned in a preexistent state. John 9:2 (NIV Study Bible Notes)

The sin before even being born or as a baby in the womb is not possible in biblical terms, sometimes the best explanation is the simplest one, it would have made sense if they would have asked about only the parents but in not doing so, the generational sin can't be taken in consideration.
 
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YesMe

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We maybe don't have the whole conversation recorded, only the pertinent parts. The object of the lesson was that the man was born blind for the sake of Jesus to heal him.

'but that the works of God should be made manifest in him'

He was born blind to be there at the time and place the Jesus came along and could manifest his power over creation and heal him. Just as the storm rose up so he could calm the waters.

He may have had a long and lengthy discussion with them later on about their question.

Assumptions and speculation is not good, because in doing so, we can change the meaning of any bible verse, you see. The writer of that gospel could make that verse more clear, but ask yourself why he did not do it. It took me years to see what that verse says, I read it so so many times before..
 
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Whitelinen

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I agree, it's not good, however I also believe in reading in context and if you read further down you will see where that might have come from.

It seems by the story that the Pharisees were aware of this man and his parents and why they answered the way they did.

The end of their interrogation of the man goes as follows

33 If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.”

34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they cast him out.

It should be noted that the word for sin is in the plural and we aren't told if his parents were married at the time or not. A child conceived out of wedlock even while in the womb would fall under sin.
 
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Whitelinen

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Assumptions and speculation is not good, because in doing so, we can change the meaning of any bible verse, you see. The writer of that gospel could make that verse more clear, but ask yourself why he did not do it. It took me years to see what that verse says, I read it so so many times before..

I really don't have to ask myself, I just was going off the knowledge of John's very last words in that Gospel

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Amen
 
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