The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

[BABerean2]

Question..... could the increase in closeness between the nations of Israel and America.... fit with the prophecy of the two sticks being joined together of Ezekiel 37?

http://www.sordrescue.com/uploads/4/7/7/9/47798703/04-28-11_commander_in_chief.pdf



Ezekiel 37:16

Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand."

My apologies if this is not directly relevant to the opening post... but I feel that because Ezekiel 37 is just before Ezekiel 40- 48... then it seems like the foundation is being laid for the fulfillment of Ezekiel 40 - 48..... especially 47 which will change the whole world.

How did Peter address the crowd on the Day of Pentecost?

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Who was James addressing in his letter?

as 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

 

[DennisTate]

How did Peter address the crowd on the Day of Pentecost?

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Who was James addressing in his letter?

as 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

Are you referring to this ancient tradition?

Joseph of Arimathea - Wikipedia

Joseph of Arimathea was, according to all four canonical Gospels, the man who assumed responsibility for the burial of Jesus after Jesus' crucifixion. A number of stories that developed during the Middle Ages connect him with both Glastonbury, where he is supposed to have founded the earliest Christian oratory, and also with the Grail legend.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

It is not me that disagrees with you about the Tree of Life being in the Book of Revelation.
It is the Word of God that proves you wrong..

That's fine and dandy that you believe that there will be a tree OF LIFE in a garden like Eden in the next life, or a future age of the earth. That however does not take away from the FACT! That water OF LIFE and the tree OF LIFE are used through out scripture as illustrations of the Holy Spirit and the Truth. Or as Jesus said "I AM the way the truth and the life." There has never been any dispute by any Christian denomination or people about this. Nor should there be any dispute by any sane person that hundreds of millions of people have found everlasting life and "healing" from their sinful ways through the Holy Spirit and the Word of Truth adding indisputable clarity to common scriptural illustrations of the Holy spirit and the truth as the water OF LIFE and tree OF LIFE saving from judgment and transforming peoples lives. And further that because of this individual transformation it is a historical reality that real Bible based Christianity has radically altered many cultures and turned them away from the horrific practices that were normalized in the ancient world. So much so in fact that many nations now have at least a minimal amount of cultural morality non existent in the ancient world that allows the believers in those nations to possess earthly promises of God denied to hundreds of generations of saints in the past.

From: The Tree Of Life

Here are some simple building blocks that will make understanding this easier.
AKJV​

1. That life is in Jesus. John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
2. They that have truly put their trust in him have eternal life: John 3:36 He that believes on the Son has everlasting life:.... 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life,....
3. The water of life is already flowing inside them that believe. John 4:14 But whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
4. The water of life is already flowing through them that believe. John 7:36....If any man thirst, let him come to me, and drink. 38 He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers!!!! of living water. 39 (But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive:....
5. Jesus used the same type of terminology to describe the fruit of the tree. John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the farmer. 2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now you are clean through the word (The truth) which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.....16 You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
6. Gods people are ordained to bear lots of kinds of fruit. This is some of that fruit. Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance:.....Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth Isaiah 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for justice, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry. Yes, ultimately this personal and cultural fruit is to bear national fruit. Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth it fruits. What fruits? It said what fruits in Isaiah 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for justice, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

From: The River Of Life
John 7:38 He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


This river of life that heals the nations is one of the clearest illustrations about the New Jerusalem. God the Holy Spirit who dwells in his people flowing through them to heal the nations. It is hard to imagine the fundamental and rather carnal misunderstanding of scripture and Christian experience that takes the power of the Holy Spirit that works through so many millions of believers to save, heal, deliver and transform and turns Him into a mythical physical river that will come to the earth some day. Yet Jesus said he spoke in parables for a reason: Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said to him, Why speak you to them in parables? 11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. AKJV Apparently, to those who refuse to grow in the grace of God, to this day, these symbolic illustrations are meant to deceive them. The next story is a very good example of a carnal\unspiritual mind wrestling with the meaning of the same illustrative language.
John 4:7 There comes a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said to her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away to the city to buy meat.) 9 Then said the woman of Samaria to him, How is it that you, being a Jew, ask drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said to her, If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that said to you, Give me to drink; you would have asked of him, and he would have given you living water. 11 The woman said to him, Sir, you have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from where then have you that living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13 Jesus answered and said to her, Whoever drinks of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. 15 The woman said to him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come here to draw. 16 Jesus said to her, Go, call your husband, and come here. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said to her, You have well said, I have no husband: 18 For you have had five husbands; and he whom you now have is not your husband: in that said you truly. 19 The woman said to him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and you say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman said to him, I know that Messiah comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus said to her, I that speak to you am he. AKJV
Compare this woman to today's pop culture teachings about end time prophecy and the New Jerusalem. Notice how the focus of both this woman and thousands of todays popular teachers is on the physical illustrations yet they completely miss the actual meaning of them. The woman confused by Jesus's words takes them to mean some kind of magical physical water that would satisfy her flesh and bone bodies need for water. The proud Biblical "literalist" takes the exact same position with the river of living water entirely missing the actual meaning of verses about the Holy Spirit healing, saving, transforming the nations through Gods people. The woman also looks at the OT writings about the physical city of Jerusalem as being the focus of its teachings. (This even though her own religion disputes those claims.) Jesus corrects her by telling her neither Jerusalem or Samaria are the focus of Gods purposes on the earth but rather on people worshiping with their spirit and the truth. This coincides exactly with what we see today. Rather than grasping the actual meaning of very common Biblical illustrations and symbolism about both the physical city of Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. Mainstream Christian's teachings focus is on the physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East and a new supposed physical city called the New Jerusalem. Just like the Samaritan woman totally missing the actual meaning of the verses as illustrations and in prophecy. This aught to frighten the reader as to what they are propagating in the world through their prayer and financial support of ministries who's understandings mirror that of the Samaritan woman.
Psalm 46: Selah. 4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, The holy dwelling places of the Most High. 5 God is in the midst of her, she will not be moved; God will help her when morning dawns. NAS
Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
The next paragraph is from Ezekiel's vision of the New Jerusalem already comparatively written about to Johns vision here.
Ezekiel 47: 1 Afterward he brought me again to the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar. 2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without to the utter gate by the way that looks eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side. 3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles. 4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. 5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. Perhaps the only thing to be noted is what the meaning of the river growing larger would be; that as time goes on and more and more people become believers. The river would grow larger because it is flowing from or through more people. More will be said about this in the next verse.

So, if you want to believe in a literal river and tree in the next life or in some future age of the planet. Go ahead. Just don't miss the forest for the trees. Don't let that belief blind you to what is going on now.

 

[BABerean2]

Are you referring to this ancient tradition?

No.
I am referring to the Bible.

.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Davy]

How many crowns does the Rider wear that comes with His armies out of heaven later in this chapter? Rev. 19

Jesus is the rider on the white horse of Rev.19. In Rev.19:12 He is wearing many crowns to represent His role of KING of kings. It's to show His reign in absolute over the kingdoms of the earth, for on the 7th trumpet we are told all the kingdoms of this world become those of God and His Christ (Rev.11).

So, how come the earth is reaped in Rev. 14 when He returns wearing one crown?

It's because Jesus is KING literally, and is to inherit the throne of His father David (Luke 1:32).

Revelation 19 is opening at about the time of the 7th trumpet. God's wrath is coming down on the city of mystery, Babylon. The saints will soon be made righteous/as in get clean linen outfits.
Doesn't Jesus Christ need to return for the saints to put on righteousness in Rev. 19 before the marriage supper of the Lamb begins?

You're not listening to God's Word through The Holy Spirit with what is written there. You are listening to ideas from men that are conflicting with the written Rev.19 Scripture...

Rev 19:1-11
19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are His judgments: for He hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.

All one need do is simply read that as written and think. When is God's judgment of that "great harlot", and His vengeance upon her for the blood of His servants? On the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns and not before. Here God's vengeance is already past, and we can go back in Rev.18 and read more details about the fall in "one hour" of that great harlot.

So is this Rev.19:1-2 before Jesus' second coming on the "day of the Lord", or after? After of course. That means this is a future forward look in time. And we have to adjust our understanding of the timeline according to these events.

Rev.19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Again, what's the timeline of that? After Christ's return, after the judgment upon the great harlot. That's what "her smoke rose up for ever and ever" represents time-wise, i.e., her defeat and end. So how could anyone try to say this Rev.19:3 verse is prior to Christ's return because it's so easy to know it's after His return?


Rev.19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God That sat on the throne, saying, 'Amen; Alleluia.'
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, 'Praise our God, all ye His servants, and ye that fear Him, both small and great.'
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, 'Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Those are God's people, believers on Christ Jesus, in His Presence, after... His return and gathering of His Church. That... is His Salvation time! not tribulation time! certainly not prior to His return! It's simple. After Christ's coming is when the righteous clothing is handed out, for in Rev.14 we read that our works follow us to heaven.


Rev.19:9 And he saith unto me, 'Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, 'These are the true sayings of God.'
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, 'See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.'

Ah... so an angel was giving John this vision of Christ's Salvation after the defeat of the great harlot? Yes, the same angel back in Rev.18 that was showing John the vision of the great harlot's destruction.

Rev.19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He That sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
KJV

Now at this 11th verse, the subject timeline changes to the day of our Lord Jesus' second coming to defeat the Babylon harlot and the wicked on earth.

This is not at all hard to follow as long as one pays attention to the events as written and by that understand the timeline.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Davy]

I want to consider what happens before the seven trumpets sound in Revelation________where that story of past events is written down. Revelation 8 is to identify the angels that showed up, not the actual timing of the seven trumpets sounding.

Revelation 8:1
"And when he had opened the 7th seal...silence..."
Revelation 8:2
"....the seven angels...."
Revelation 8:5
"And...voices, lightnings, and an earthquake."
John did not see here an earthquake happening on the earth. Revelation 4:5 shows that voices and lightnings come out of the throne in heaven.
So, out of the throne in heaven came this -earthquake. It is to show how long God will have His indignation plagues come against Israel. till the time of the plague of the earthquake
John never gave a damage report, because this earthquake did not take place yet upon the earth. Now, the seven angels will prepare themselves to sound. Does this mean that they get in the right order or put the trumpets to their mouths, both things, or what? There is no hail to come at the end of the time of the seven trumpets as in -great hail. The trumpets times end with an earthquake. Revelation 11 tells that the two witnesses rise at the same hour as an - earthquake. This will be the time of the 7th trumpet plague. The third woe is the earthquake hour.

The end of Revelation 11 is showing the lead up to a new set of plagues. This set will end with great hail. It is the vials -not the trumpets that end with great hail. The vials will come in full measure, yet the OT shows that Israel will only be corrected when things come in parts - in measure. Full strength measure plagues come upon the enemies of Israel.

The end of Revelation 11 links next to the time of Revelation 16:1 where the vials begin soon.

The seven trumpets actually sounded at the end of Revelation 15. Notice that in Rev. 8 it mentions__smoke and so too at the close of Rev. 15.

When the 7th trumpet blows, it's all over, even as Rev.10 foretold before even reaching that Rev.11 chapter...

Rev 10:7
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.
KJV

One of the main events God gave His OT prophets to write about was the "day of the Lord". On that day is Christ's coming "as a thief" to reap the harvest. That is when Armageddon also happens which is 7th Vial timing.

If one concentrates on the descriptions of the angels being given the trumpets or vials, then the true order of events will be mixed up. The devil comes on the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, and 6th vial, 666, and that is the tribulation time.

 

[Davy]

The very first part is gladness as to the taking down of the city of mystery, Babylon. I believe this city will be Tyre in Lebanon.

Which city it is was given back in Rev.11...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

That is where Satan is coming to exalt himself in place of Christ. This is why the area of the Mount of Olives will be cleaved in two forming a great valley when Jesus' feet touch down there per Zechariah 14.

 

[Davy]

No, the parts of 1290 days and 1260 days happen back in chapter 11 and end with the fall of the little horn at the end of Daniel 11. The vile person goes down at the end of the great tribulation, but there will still be people that need to stay alive - as in wait -to the 1335th day. If they die - go and rest, then they cannot be blessed. These are the people that will survive the time of Armageddon.

The final 1260 days end with Christ's return and defeat of His enemies on earth. That completes the final "one week" of Dan.9:27 to total the 70 weeks. The idea of waiting and coming to the 1335 days and being blessed is about Christ's elect who will have waited on His return and were not deceived.

 

[Davy]

Even the end of the battle of Armageddon does not usher in the 1000 years of His reign with the saints. Look at the end of Zechariah 14 where it tells how Israel returns to the land - Jerusalem area is lifted up - not comes down out of heaven - and Israel dwells safely there. Later, comes a great tumult - all before the time mentioned later of people need to come worship the King year to year.

You're trying to read Zech.14 as if all the events are in exact chronological order. They are not.

Timeline: after Christ's return
Zech 14:6-17
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


Timeline: immediately after Christ's return
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


Timeline: on the day of Christ's return, God's consuming fire event
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.


Timeline: immediately prior to Christ's return
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.


Timeline: just prior to Christ's return, then immediately after
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.


Timeline: day of Christ's return
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.


Timeline: after Christ's return
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
KJV

 

[Davy]

God's wrath does not kill the two witnesses. They die along with all of the other great tribulation martyrs of the 5th seal. God will not judge and avenge their blood until the last martyr like them has been slain that is to be killed. The two witnesses die at the end of the great tribulation, not the end of the vials of God's wrath. They are not dead for 45 days - as in to make the difference of 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12. The people at the 1335 days must remain alive to get blessed. If they die, then they are lost among the rest of the wicked and end up in hell.
....

Of course God's cup of wrath poured out on the final day of this world is not what kills God's two witnesses in Jerusalem. That's a completely irrelevant idea to when God's wrath that Apostle Paul taught is going to occur.

In 1 Thess.5, the wrath Paul taught we are not appointed to is the cup of God's wrath poured out on the wicked on the 7th vial, the very last day of this world, i.e., the "day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night" to end this present world. That is why Paul gave the description about the wicked and deceived saying, "Peace and safety" as a time marker for when the "sudden destruction" comes upon them on that "day of the Lord".

Our Lord Jesus on the 6th Vial warned His Church that He comes "as a thief" showing that the "day of the Lord" doesn't happen until the 7th Vial (see Rev.16:15-16).

 

[Davy]

Isaiah 13 shows how the day of the LORD begins - as a destruction from the Almighty. It is Babylon that will be as a woman in travail then, not Israel.

Read Luke 23:27-30 where those in Jerusalem in the last days when Jesus comes will be saying, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck." Those will be deceived Jews that will be saying that, as that's who Jesus was talking to and about. The ones who will have remained spiritually barren per the parable will be those who wait on Christ's coming on the last day of this world, and are not deceived by the false messiah who comes first.