The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

[Original Happy Camper]

/nvm

what does your post mean?

 

[DavidPT]

what does your post mean?

My guess is that it means nevermind.

 

[HARK!]

There are at least 3 dozen chapters of prophecy about the New Jerusalem. It's one of the largest bodies of prophecy in the scripture.

...and you didn't cite, not even, one to support the bare assertions that you made in your original post.

I would have like to have seen the evidence to support your assertions. For one, I don't believe that Ezekiel used the word "mile." The first question that comes to my mind is, " how many cubic miles of atmosphere and outer space, are associated with even one square mile of land in Jerusalem, as it stands today?"

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

...and you didn't cite, not even, one to support the bare assertions that you made in your original post.

I would have like to have seen the evidence to support your assertions. For one, I don't believe that Ezekiel used the word "mile." The first question that comes to my mind is, " how many cubic miles of atmosphere and outer space, are associated with even one square mile of land in Jerusalem, as it stands today?"

So? I cite enough of them later on. Can't put everything on one post.
Here are three.
The Bride of Christ

 

[HARK!]

Here are three.
The Bride of Christ

That's a wall of text. Why not just cite a single verse in support for each of your assertions?

You never did answer this question with reference to your "cubic theory:"

" how many cubic miles of atmosphere and outer space, are associated with even one square mile of land in Jerusalem, as it stands today?"

If you have a case to make; I'd like to see you present it articulately. I don't want to necessarily doubt you. You just haven't presented a strong argument.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

That's a wall of text. Why not just cite a single verse in support for each of your assertions?

You never did answer this question with reference to your "cubic theory:"



If you have a case to make; I'd like to see you present it articulately. I don't want to necessarily doubt you. You just haven't presented a strong argument.

Don’t know why you can’t just look at the numbers and the conversion tables yourself. That is all over the net. I’m about to shower and go to bed.

 

[HARK!]

Don’t know why you can’t just look at the numbers and the conversion tables yourself. That is all over the net. I’m about to shower and go to bed.

Argument from ignorance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

What? I am not allowed to go to bed because I have to go to work the next day?
http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/48-16.htm

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Argument from ignorance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof.

What? I am not allowed to go to bed because I have to go to work the next day?
http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/48-16.htm

 

[HARK!]

Post #368

Ezekiel 48:16 and will have these measurements: the north side 4,500 cubits, the south side 4,500 cubits, the east side 4,500 cubits, and the west side 4,500 cubits.

Ezekiel 48:16

New International Version
and will have these measurements: the north side 4,500 cubits, the south side 4,500 cubits, the east side 4,500 cubits, and the west side 4,500 cubits.

What does this verse have to do with your cube theory?
http://biblehub.com/niv/ezekiel/48.htm
.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Post #368

Ezekiel 48:16

New International Version
and will have these measurements: the north side 4,500 cubits, the south side 4,500 cubits, the east side 4,500 cubits, and the west side 4,500 cubits.

What does this verse have to do with your cube theory?
.

You must have misread the original post and I did not understand what you were talking about. The vision in Revelation is cubed. The vision in Ezekiel is squared.

 

[HARK!]

You must have misread the original post and I did not understand what you were talking about. The vision in Revelation is cubed. The vision in Ezekiel is squared.

You must have misunderstood what I was asking. I asked you to support your cube theory; and you posted scripture regarding a square.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

You must have misunderstood what I was asking. I asked you to support your cube theory; and you posted scripture regarding a square.

I guess so. But I never said the city in Ezekiel is cubed. I said the one in Revelation is.

 

[HARK!]

I guess so. But I never said the city in Ezekiel is cubed. I said the one in Revelation is.

Exactly; and you still haven't posted the support for your assertions.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Exactly; and you still haven't posted the support for your assertions.

Revelation 21:16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long.

 

[Truth7t7]

You must have misread the original post and I did not understand what you were talking about. The vision in Revelation is cubed. The vision in Ezekiel is squared.

The visions in Ezekiel 47:12 and Revelation 22:1-5 is the same place, "The Eternal Kingdom"

Same River of life, same tree of life, bearing fruit every month, with leaves of the tree for healing.

There is only one future place where the river and tree of life are present, "The Eternal Kingdom"

Disregard the obvious

Try to build a teaching on the obscure

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Way to different to be a “place.” No problem at all if they are prophecy of a time period that are using a city as illustration to prophesy something.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

The visions in Ezekiel 47:12 and Revelation 22:1-5 is the same place, "The Eternal Kingdom"

Same River of life, same tree of life, bearing fruit every month, with leaves of the tree for healing.

There is only one future place where the river and tree of life are present, "The Eternal Kingdom"

Disregard the obvious

Try to build a teaching on the obscure

Way to different to be a “place.” No problem at all if they are prophecy of a time period that are using a city as illustration to prophesy something.

 

[Truth7t7]

Way to different to be a “place.” No problem at all if they are prophecy of a time period that are using a city as illustration to prophesy something.

Appears you dont believe in a future "Eternal Kingdom" for the righteous, where the tree and river of life are present?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Appears you dont believe in a future "Eternal Kingdom" for the righteous, where the tree and river of life are present?

John 7:38 He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


This river of life that heals the nations is one of the clearest illustrations about the New Jerusalem. God the Holy Spirit who dwells in his people flowing through them to heal the nations. It is hard to imagine the fundamental and rather carnal misunderstanding of scripture and Christian experience that takes the power of the Holy Spirit that works through so many millions of believers to save, heal, deliver and transform and turns Him into a mythical physical river that will come to the earth some day. Yet Jesus said he spoke in parables for a reason: Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said to him, Why speak you to them in parables? 11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. AKJV Apparently, to those who refuse to grow in the grace of God, to this day, these symbolic illustrations are meant to deceive them. The next story is a very good example of a carnal\unspiritual mind wrestling with the meaning of the same illustrative language.
John 4:7 There comes a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said to her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away to the city to buy meat.) 9 Then said the woman of Samaria to him, How is it that you, being a Jew, ask drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said to her, If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that said to you, Give me to drink; you would have asked of him, and he would have given you living water. 11 The woman said to him, Sir, you have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from where then have you that living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13 Jesus answered and said to her, Whoever drinks of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. 15 The woman said to him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come here to draw. 16 Jesus said to her, Go, call your husband, and come here. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said to her, You have well said, I have no husband: 18 For you have had five husbands; and he whom you now have is not your husband: in that said you truly. 19 The woman said to him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and you say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman said to him, I know that Messiah comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus said to her, I that speak to you am he. AKJV
Compare this woman to today's pop culture teachings about end time prophecy and the New Jerusalem. Notice how the focus of both this woman and thousands of todays popular teachers is on the physical illustrations yet they completely miss the actual meaning of them. The woman confused by Jesus's words takes them to mean some kind of magical physical water that would satisfy her flesh and bone bodies need for water. The proud Biblical "literalist" takes the exact same position with the river of living water entirely missing the actual meaning of verses about the Holy Spirit healing, saving, transforming the nations through Gods people. The woman also looks at the OT writings about the physical city of Jerusalem as being the focus of its teachings. (This even though her own religion disputes those claims.) Jesus corrects her by telling her neither Jerusalem or Samaria are the focus of Gods purposes on the earth but rather on people worshiping with their spirit and the truth. This coincides exactly with what we see today. Rather than grasping the actual meaning of very common Biblical illustrations and symbolism about both the physical city of Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. Mainstream Christian's teachings focus is on the physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East and a new supposed physical city called the New Jerusalem. Just like the Samaritan woman totally missing the actual meaning of the verses as illustrations and in prophecy. This aught to frighten the reader as to what they are propagating in the world through their prayer and financial support of ministries who's understandings mirror that of the Samaritan woman.
Psalm 46: Selah. 4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, The holy dwelling places of the Most High. 5 God is in the midst of her, she will not be moved; God will help her when morning dawns. NAS
Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
The next paragraph is from Ezekiel's vision of the New Jerusalem already comparatively written about to Johns vision here.
Ezekiel 47: 1 Afterward he brought me again to the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar. 2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without to the utter gate by the way that looks eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side. 3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles. 4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. 5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. Perhaps the only thing to be noted is what the meaning of the river growing larger would be; that as time goes on and more and more people become believers. The river would grow larger because it is flowing from or through more people. More will be said about this in the next verse.

From: The New Jerusalem