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Featured The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Daniel Martinovich, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    The verses in Ezekiel 43 are talking about Israel returning from the Babylonian captivity, and returning to God from their whoredom, God gave instruction for the animal sacrificial system, God dwelt in the 2nd Temple in the Holy Of Holies, the promise of God was conditional, and Israel didn't keep their end of the deal.

    Dave you ignore the obvious "animal sacrifice for sin" trying desperately to create your own earthly kingdom for 1000 years, in total disregard to the finished sacrifice on the cross of calvary.

    You tell me why Ezekiel 43:19-23 God instructs Bull & Goat blood sacrifice for sin?

    Because its a earthly 536BC Zerrubbabel Temple, before the cross of calvary, where the Lamb of God was sacrificed once for the sins of the world, blood sacrifice is "Abolished"!

    Ezekiel 40:1-4 he received the vision in the 25th year of the 70 year babylonian captivity,verse 4 hes instructed to tell the vision to the house of Israel in the captivity.

    45 years after the vision, the temple building started, and the sacrificial system for sin was used.

    The complete scenario is a no brainer Dave

    Ezekiel 40-46 earthly Zerrubabel 2nd Temple 536 BC sacrificial system, before calvary

    Ezekiel 47:12 Future Eternal Kingdom, River & Tree of Life, no sacrificial system Revelation 22:1-5

    When Jesus Christ returns, the "Final Judgment", "Eternal Kingdom" takes place, Matthew 25:31-46 is God's Roadmap, you won't change it Dave :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You skip over what's written in those very verses you quote. Jesus sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne is NOT David's throne...

    Luke 1:31-33
    31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a Son, and shalt call His name JESUS.

    32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:


    33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
    KJV
     
  3. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good work... you just made my IGNORE LIST.
     
  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I really wish I could help you fathom the actuality of the future resurrection to the "spiritual body" type Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. I know many brethren struggle with it because of long-standing Jewish traditions of thinking a soul can't manifest without a flesh body.
    Some also struggle with Eccl.12:5-7 about the idea of the "spirit" going back to God Who gave it at flesh death, thinking it is only some animate force when it's really about our spirit & soul that's inside our flesh linked by that "silver cord", revealing what? It reveals our true self is the spirit with soul, and not our flesh that goes back to the elements of earthly matter (Matt.10:28).

    1 John 3:2
    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
    KJV


    If John knew that our Lord Jesus' resurrection body was like his flesh, then he would have known how 'we shall be'. But John there is declaring he didn't really know what kind of body our Lord Jesus had that felt like flesh, looked like flesh, could sit down eat with them, but could also suddenly appear out of nowhere and disappear at will also. We know the future resurrection body won't get sick, won't die, won't be subject to hot and cold, etc., so how could anyone think it's the same kind of flesh we have today?
     
  5. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Jesus sits on Davids throne, and he is ruling over the Church, The Israel of God Romans 9:6-8
     
  6. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    You seriously want us to believe that the Father's throne and David's throne, these are one and the same?

    Do you not see that there are two thrones in view here? 1---in my throne. 2---in his throne

    As to this part-----To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne. Come on now, surely you have been reading the Bible long enough by now to know what this is referring to, which then gives the timing of the overcomers sitting with Jesus in His throne, not in the Father's throne, in Jesus' throne, just like the text very plainly says.

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


    If there is any question as to when this is meaning, the following should easily give the answer for that.

    Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him , then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory :

    Clearly the throne of His glory is meaning this very same throne mentioned here----To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne(Revelation 3:21). And that Matthew 25:31, for one, indicates He is yet to sit on His throne of glory. Unless one wants to claim Matthew 25:31 has already been fulfilled, and that there is not a 'then' in that verse.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  7. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    You just joined Cf November 25 2017, and are here preaching a gnostic, no body, resurrection, in the Christian only forum?
    context is missing from anything you post on this, and you ignore the great volume of the Word of God on our resurrection in our very same human being flesh but elementally dissolved, in a moment, either at the rapture or at the resurrection of the elements of it, and instantly transformed with the New Creation DNA called "Israel", not "Adam".
    You ignore so much and latch onto "totally out of context from the whole" verses with your own private interpretation that one would need to begin at the beginning and take you through the entire Word of God on the subject, in context; but who wants to try to instruct the willfully blind?
    Jesus promised that He is our Everlasting Father who will never leave us and that His body that is prepared for Him to wear is His own New Creation body that is made in the same likeness that Adam was made in, and that He is returning in that same body.
    What will it be like to have the Glory indwelling that we who are endued with power from on high have only the foretaste of? That is what Adam was made for, and what Adam lost, and we are all "Adam", as to our spirit/nature/flesh/bone/blood, but if we are born again of the One Living Spirit, then that is the guarantee that our bodies will be born again also, into the image of the New Man, and that in those regenerated bodies of our being, we will be glorified as Christ is, with the Glory.
    Imagine that!
    Bodies that eat, drink, and sleep, made just like Adam was before the defilement of his nature and flesh and corruption, and in the New Creation DNA, but made for the Glory!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you realize you just called... the "spiritual body" resurrection body Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 a GNOSTIC DOCTRINE?

    1 Cor 15:35-51
    35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
    36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
    37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.
    39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
    40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
    41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    KJV

    You reject what Paul clearly taught that the resurrection body is a "spiritual body" type, and not the flesh type body we have today. Your 'dead-in-the-ground' theory is a false doctrine of men, a tradition and nothing more. No one is literally soul-sleeping in a casket in the ground!

    What I have been preaching is what Apostle Paul taught in the above 1 Cor.15 Scripture that the resurrection body is a "spiritual body".

    Yet you claim I don't teach a body at all which is Gnostic doctrine. By that... you have done the sin of bearing falsehoods. Congrats, you just made my Ignore list too you charlatan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  9. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    I call your interpretation of it gnostic, for that is not the teaching of the Word of God.
    Jesus is the "heavenly man", the Man whose One Living Spirit is in no way an Adam spirit nature, and He is the one who is from above, the heavenly Man, while we who are born in Adam are "earthlings".
    His flesh body is the New Creation Man, absent of any corruption that the Adam is born in.
    His body is the "Holy" body.

    Jhn 8:23

    And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

    Jhn 14:30
    Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
    Psa 16:10
    For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    ...Act 2:31
    He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    Adam was made in the image of God. That image is the body Adam was made to wear.
    Jesus is the Image of God, now seen, now revealed, in His body that was prepared for Him to put on like a garment in the womb of the virgin.
    Jesus is returning in that same body. eE rose in that same body that could not corrupt, the immortal flesh of Him could see no corruption.
    He will always wear that Son of God human being flesh body, and is glorified in it, which is what God intended for our race, in the beginning: to build up the temple to indwell with the living stones/sons of Adam, by making Adam made male and female, to have sons of God, to build the temple for the Glory to indwell.
    In that body we will eat with Him, rule with Him if we are faithful, and lie down to sleep, in our heavenly house.

    Rev 19:9

    Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”

    Mar 14:25
    “Assuredly, I say to you, I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
    Luk 22:16
    “for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

    Enoch 62:The Congregation of the Righteous Vindicated

    8And the Congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown.
    And all the elect shall stand before him on that day.

    9And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth
    Shall fall down before him on their faces,
    And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man,
    And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands.

    10Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them
    That they shall hastily go forth from His presence,
    And their faces shall be filled with shame,
    And the darkness grow deeper on their faces.

    11And He will deliver them to the angels for punishment,
    To execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed His children and His elect
    12And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for His elect:
    They shall rejoice over them,
    Because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them,
    And His sword is drunk with their blood.

    13And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day,
    And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous.

    14And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them,
    And with that Son of Man shall they eat
    And lie down and rise up for ever and ever.

    15And the righteous and elect shall have risen from the earth,
    And ceased to be of downcast countenance.

    Garments of Glory

    And they shall have been clothed with garments of glory,
    16And these shall be the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits:
    And your garments shall not grow old,
    Nor your glory pass away before the Lord of Spirits.
    The Book of Enoch, Translated by Robert H. Charles, 1912
     
  10. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    The throne of glory is no more than speaking of the throne of judgment.

    Matthew 25:31-46 is the Final Judgment" "Eternal Kingdomm"

    Its your error in understanding the future, as you believe in error there will be a temporary 1000 year kingdom, with Jesus sitting on a throne.

    God's word clearly teaches, in Matthew 25:31-46 At the return of Jesus Christ the "Eternal Kingdom" starts in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  11. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    To you then, is this throne of glory the same throne as the Father's, and is it the same throne as David's? If the answer to those questions are no, you have at least admitted there is more than one throne involved, when speaking of Christ.

    What you haven't dealt with yet, the fact Jesus is currently set down in His Father's throne, how that throne is also meaning David's throne. As if the most high God, meaning the Father, He occupies David's throne in heaven, rather than His own throne.
     
  12. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Your hung up on Davids throne why.

    "David Was King Of Israel" and sat upon a throne.

    "Jesus is King of Israel" the Church, And Sits on this throne.

    Why the semantics?

    You still trying to build a temporary kingdom of 1000 years ?
     
  13. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Again, read your Bible.

    Acts 1:9-11 says differently.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  14. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    First off, show in scripture where the last nine chapters of Ezekiel is to be understood as literally being fulfilled in Zerrubabel's temple?

    Secondly, show me in scripture where there is precedence that the last nine chapters of Ezekiel is to be taken as "future".

    The dimensions given in Ezekiel don't even match up with Zerrubabel's temple.

    Thirdly, in Ezekiel 10, we are told that the Glory Cloud (God) departed the temple. Nowhere in scripture does it record that it returned. However, when the God-man Jesus preached in the temple, it did in the person of Christ.

    Fourthly, there is nowhere in scripture where there was a command to build such a temple.

    And no matter how you try to get around it, everything laid out in the last nine chapters of Ezekiel were "conditional".

    Read Eze. 43:11.

    Everything God revealed to Ezekiel was conditional on Israel doing what they were told.

    And sadly, they didn't.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Ezekiel 43:1-4 ...and the glory of God came into the Temple by the East gate.
    The Shekinah glory will return to the new Temple, to be built by the Lord's faithful Christian people as they live in all of the holy land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-9 Note verse 9's mention of the new Temple.
     
  16. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 are the same place, "The Eternal Kingdom".

    River and Tree of Life Present, Fruit Every Month From The Tree, Leaves Of The Tree For Healing.

    Same, Exact Place "Eternal Kingdom"
     
  17. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    One difference.

    "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine." -Eze. 47:12 (KJV)

    "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. " -Rev. 22:1-2 (KJV)

    See the difference?

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  18. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Yep I see the difference, one account of the "Eternal Kingdom" is in the book of Ezekiel 47 and the other account is in Revelation 22, did I pass the test Dean? :)

    "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine." -Eze. 47:12 (KJV)

    "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. " -Rev. 22:1-2 (KJV)
     
  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    You teach in error as if there will be a future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, where mortal human men will build a Temple so God could dwell in it?

    Jesus Christ teaches in Matthew 25:31-46, that at his return the "Final Judgment" "Eternal Kingdom" takes place.

    Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the Holy angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

    Verse 34 The "Eternal Kingdom" is presented to the righteous to enter.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34

    There will be no temporary, earthly 1000 year kingdom, with mortal humans present, building a temple for God :)

    At the return of Jesus Christ, "The Eternal Kingdom" Begins, For Ever And Ever! :)

    Jesus warned the believer of this teaching, as he wont be on earth hanging out with mortal humans, Matthew 24:23-27

    "Believe It Not"!

    Jesus Christ Is Lord :)

    Truth7t7
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  20. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Nope!

    "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine." -Eze. 47:12 (KJV)

    "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. " -Rev. 22:1-2 (KJV)

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
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