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Featured The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Daniel Martinovich, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Matthew 25:31-46

    Verse 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne, judgment takes place.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

    Verse 46 The Righteous Obtain "Eternal Life" And Enter The "Eternal Kingdom" In Verse 34

    There Is No Earthly Kingdom Of 1000 Years At The Return Of Jesus Christ.

    "The Eternal Kingdom Has Started"! For Ever And Ever!
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    My point was that the prophecies in Ez 40-48 are all speaking of the same time period, in regards to this temple, and that you need to make up your mind which time period it is speaking of.

    Assuming you are correct instead, I guess God lied in this part?

    Ezekiel 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

    Can't apply this part----the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever---to a temple no longer there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  3. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 7th trumpet is when Jesus takes over all the kingdoms of this world, as written there in Rev.11:14-15. The events of Rev.11:18 are... Millennial timing at the beginning, for that is when the rewards to Christ's faithful are handed out, and the raising of the "resurrection of damnation" per John 5:28-29, and destroy the wicked armies that will come upon Jerusalem on that final "woe" period.

    We know much of that Rev.11:15-18 is Millennial timing because of the existence of the Rev.20 Chapter with it declaring the thousand years reign by Christ and His elect. So if you want to get rid of the declared future "thousand years" period in Rev.20 for after Jesus' return, then you'd have rip that Chapter out of your Bible along with many other Scriptures that point to that future time of Christ's reign.
     
  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So what's you're argument? Anyone can just post... Scripture.
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry, but your order is a jumbled up mess. You'd do better by studying Christ's Olivet Discourse signs which are the signs of Rev.6. There is ONLY 7 main signs of the end in His Olivet Discourse, but they are explained further by the 21 events John was given by vision in the seals, trumpets, and vials.

    By the time of the 7th trumpet and 7th vial, Christ Jesus will appear, and the caught up event will occur, along with the destruction of the armies of Armageddon which the sudden destruction will come by God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth and ushering all into the future world when we all will be in the resurrection body type.
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You're only partially correct.


    Rev 20:4
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    KJV

    Those in red refer to having come out of the great tribulation, having made a stand for Jesus and gave His Witness. That will only happen at the very end... of this world, and that set's the timing of these Rev.20 events to be only... after that tribulation has ended.
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry, you cannot throw away David's throne which our Lord Jesus is to inherit when He comes, because David's throne is an EARTHLY throne, not a Heavenly one in Heaven.

    Jesus comes HERE, on earth, to reign at His coming...

    Matt 25:31-33
    31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:

    32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
    KJV


    That does not happen in Heaven, but ON EARTH.
     
  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    THAT IS A SPAM POST.
     
  9. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    You continue to post in error that a earthly 1000 year kingdom takes place at the return of Jesus Christ.

    God's Word Teaches Otherwise.

    Matthew 25:31-46

    Verse 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne, judgment takes place.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

    Verse 46 The Righteous Obtain "Eternal Life" And Enter The "Eternal Kingdom" In Verse 34

    There Is No Earthly Kingdom Of 1000 Years At The Return Of Jesus Christ.

    "The Eternal Kingdom Has Started"! For Ever And Ever!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  10. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Post deleted by user
     
  11. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Why did you leave the complete context out of Matthew 25:31-46, and the return of Jesus Christ?

    Pick and choose, bend and twist?

    You continue to post in error that a earthly 1000 year kingdom takes place at the return of Jesus Christ.

    God's Word Teaches Otherwise.

    Matthew 25:31-46

    Verse 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne, judgment takes place.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

    Verse 46 The Righteous Obtain "Eternal Life" And Enter The "Eternal Kingdom" In Verse 34

    There Is No Earthly Kingdom Of 1000 Years At The Return Of Jesus Christ.

    "The Eternal Kingdom Has Started"! For Ever And Ever!
     
  12. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    And that is why Jesus said you must be born again of the incorruptible seed, which is the One Living Spirit, Christ.
    Jesus' New Man body was and is flesh and blood of the New Man DNA and the Spirit of that flesh creation is One Living Spirit/Christ.
    If we are in the corruptible Adam flesh, and not born anew, from above, we will not inherit the kingdom of God, and our resurrected from the dust of this creation human being Adam flesh body will not be elementally dissolved and instantly transformed to the same flesh body that Jesus Christ is come in, and then we will be cast soul and body into the Lake of Fire, as cast aways, and there we will be never dying worms in that Adam flesh minus the Adam spirit bodies.
    If we are not born anew, from above, of the incorruptible Seed, then we will be resurrected in our Adam corruption bodies, at the second resurrection of the dead, and then would be "never dying worms" in that body that is our own body, made for our own soul to wear.
    Jesus paid the price for our first father's sin, and if we do not repent of our own sins done in the flesh body of the Adam nature, then we will be raised for the second death of eternal separation from the Father of Glory, and never, ever, ever, be transformed to the glorious image of the New creation Man, named Israel, not Adam, and have the Glory dwelling in us which is what Adam was made for, in the beginning.
    Adam was made in the exact image, bodily, of God the Son, who is the image of the invisible God.
    Genesis 1:26, 28, and Romans 5:14.
    Jesus is YHWH the Word, who put on the garment made new in the womb of the virgin to reverse adopt Himself into the Adam creation so as to be the Kinsman/Redeemer [brother] to our bodies [Isaiah 59 -read it].
    Jesus body is fully human and is fully human forever and forever. He is the Everlasting Father in that flesh body and the "God of the whole earth, in that body, which is what Adam had been made for, and lost in the fall when corruption entered at his defilement.
    He is coming back in that same body, as Revelation 19 clearly shows, and Job, in chapter 19, totally knew the Gospel which Enoch wrote of, and was very familiar about the fact of God the Redeemer/Kinsman who would come, and who was God and who would resurrect his own body fully, even after it was dead, and that the Redeemer would stand on the earth in the last "Day" -the Millennial kingdom on earth, and that he, Job, would see Him with his own eyes of human being flesh, resurrected.

    Jesus died for our bodily redemption and regeneration of the same, elementally, to the image that Adam was first made in, but with the New Creation, One Living Spirit from above, not the one, defiled, dead to the Glory, Adam spirit that we are all come into our being in, as the seed from the loins of him who was the first, firstborn human being son of God, who died in spirit [first death] and wears a corruptible flesh body that sin has the reign over and death reigns in.
    The DNA of that New Creation human being flesh body is incorruptible and will be transformed to Glory as sons of God, which is what Adam was made to be in the beginning, to plant the heavens as a "temple not made with hands" for the Glory to indwell.
    As to your quote of not marrying in heaven, but being equal to the angels, that is from Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, who said the same, and Jesus rebuked the sadducees for not knowing that Scripture. Marrying is for the time before the transformation to Glory, while we are in the kingdom of God on earth.
    After our "millennial day" was to finish, in Adam, then we were to transform to Glory without dying in the bodies, and to "plant the heavens", and that process was to go on forever, and in the New Man Living Spirit and flesh bodies, it will go on forever, to at least a million, million years;but not in Adam spirit or flesh, but in "Israel" New Creation flesh.
    The ancient sages of Israel wrote of the purpose we were made for, and His purpose will go on forever.
    After the flesh human being bodies of New Creation born on earth in the restored kingdom prepared for them from the beginning, live their "Day", then they will be transformed to Glory, without death, so as to be living stones of the temple not made with hands, which is what Adam was made male and female for, in the beginning, and made one one flesh, one bone, one blood, and one spirit, for. -Malachi 3:15
     
  13. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    We're not even on the same page here, obviously. I'm not even discussing with you anything having to do with a thousand years when Christ returns. I'm discussing with you as to why you can't seem to make up your mind what period of time Ez 40-48 is referring to, in regards to this temple. I don't recall me ever disclosing one way or the other as to the timeframe I feel is in mind. I'm uncertain myself.

    About the only thing I am certain of is, that the same timeframe is in mind throughout, in regards to this temple. That would mean, if ch 47 and 48 are meaning the eternal state, so would it mean the eternal state in the chs that precede these. You OTOH feel chs 40-46 speak of a time thousands of years in the past, while chs 47 and 48 speak of a time far into the future. Why can't you then explain Ezekiel 43:7----the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever---which clearly speaks of eternity, since that's typically what for ever means, and how this can be applied to a place no longer here?
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    And where is this throne?


    Joh 4:21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 

    Joh 4:22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 
    Joh 4:23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 
    Joh 4:24  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 



    Act 2:32  This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 
    Act 2:33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 
    Act 2:34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 
    Act 2:35  Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 
    Act 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Both ruler and Messiah)



    Mat_22:44  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?


    Mat_26:64  Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.


    Luk_22:69  Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.


    Act_2:33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


    Act_2:34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,



    Act_5:31  Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.



    Heb_1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;




    Heb_8:1  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;



    Heb_12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


    Show us at least one verse from the New Testament which clearly says that Christ will sit on an earthly throne, in earthly Jerusalem, after His Second Coming.

    .
     
  15. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    The throne He is currently sitting on, should we assume He will be sitting on it forever, that forever He will be sitting on the right hand of God, even after the following has been fulfilled?

    1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

    It seems to me that verse 25 is connected with sitting on the right hand of God, and that the text indicates there is an ending point, which seems to be referring to the following.

    1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


    Can't be meaning the same throne then. Currently Jesus is set down with the Father in the Father's throne. It is farfetched that somehow the Father's throne and David's throne, that these are one and the same.

    And besides----

    Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    Two thrones in view here. Jesus did not grant any overcomers to sit with Him in His Father's throne. He clearly said His throne, meaning the following throne, apparently---and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David(Luke 1:32 )
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  16. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    David was an adulteror and conspired to have Uriah killed. It is David's offspring that deserves a throne.

    In Hebrews 11:15-16 we find what the Old Testament Saints are looking for. It is not found on this rotten, sin-cursed world.
    .
    .
     
  17. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Ezekiel 40-46 2nd Zerubbabel "Temple" 536BC, animal sacrifice, temple service "Temple" Ezekiel 41:1

    Ezekiel 47-48 Eternal Kingdom, tree and river of life, "House/Sanctuary" Ezekiel 47:1-12

    Two different times and places.

    When Jesus Christ returns, the "Eternal Kingdom Begins" Matthew 25:31-46
     
  18. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Dave you won't let go of what appears to be a earthly throne and Kingdom?

    Isn't Matthew 25:31-46 enough to prove the fact, the eternal kingdom starts at the return of Jesus, mortal humans are gone, the lake of fire is full, the eternal kingdom is inhabited?
     
  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    You tell me why Ezekiel 43:19-23 God instructs Bull & Goat blood sacrifice for sin?

    Because its a earthly 536BC Zerrubbabel Temple, before the cross of calvary, where the Lamb of God was sacrificed once for the sins of the world, blood sacrifice is "Abolished"!

    Ezekiel 40:1-4 he received the vision in the 25th year of the 70 year babylonian captivity,verse 4 hes instructed to tell the vision to the house of Israel in the captivity.

    45 years after the vision, the temple building started, and the sacrificial system for sin was used.

    The complete scenario is a no brainer Dave

    Ezekiel 40-46 earthly Zerrubabel 2nd Temple 536 BC

    Ezekiel 47:12 Future Eternal Kingdom, River & Tree of Life, Revelation 22:1-5
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    For it being a no brainer you sure are neglecting to explain---Ezekiel 43:7---the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever--as to how for ever can possibly fit into earthly Zerrubabel 2nd Temple 536 BC, where there is now no longer this place.

    Not to mention, what I previously brought up initially, being this---Ezekiel 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house. Don't recall you having an answer for that. Or if you did, I guess I overlooked it.


    You do realize that some of the things mentioned in ch 48 were also mentioned in ch 45, right? Both speak of oblations, where ch 45 goes into details of what these oblations consist of. You might also want to look at Ezekiel 45:21-25 again, because if there are some parallels between ch 45 and 48, and that the same oblations are meant in both chapters, that has to mean Ezekiel 45:21-25 applies to ch 48 as well, which further proves what I have been saying all along. Whatever timeframe is in mind as to this city and temple, it is the same timeframe throughout all of Ez 40-48.

    Plus, compare some of the lengths and breadths submitted in ch 45 with that of some of lengths and breadths submitted in ch 48. Some of them appear to be identical. I wonder why? Could it be because these are speaking of the exact same borders, etc, in both chapters?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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