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Featured The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Daniel Martinovich, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Zechariah 14 is the eternal kingdom, no mortal humans are found.

    You fail to believe Gods "Clear Words" in Matthew 25:31-46, you ignore response "why"

    You state in your post "Jesus Will Return One Time" but you want to have a kingdom on earth with unsaved mortal humans present, why?

    Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the Lake Of Fire, "All Unsaved Humans" are gone!

    Verse 46 The righteous Obtain Eternal Life and Enter The Eternal Kingdom, In Verse 34

    Only The Righteous Enter The Kingdom In Verse 34
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  2. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    You are not comparing Scripture with Scripture and are
    Isolating that passage by Paul and making up a stand alone doctrine that is not supported in the Word.
    The heavenly Man is flesh and blood, without corruption.
    He wears His body like a garment, which He put on at the incarnation. He is in it and eats and drinks in it and promised to eat Passover with His disciples in the Kingdom of God in that same body of New man creation
    The earthly man/Adam, is flesh and blood, corrupted irrevocably.
    The second Man is the heavenly Man.
    He is from heaven in that body of second human being creation which was made brand new in the womb of the virgin for God the Word to dress in, so as to be the Kinsman/Redeemer to Adam, and ransom the lost kingdom back, for the Glory.
    The restoration is just that, the restoration of all that we lost in the fall of Adam.

    Adam was made in the very image, bodily, of God the Word, who was to come and is come, in the exact kind of body God made Adam with, but without sin, and He has promised to write His New name on the flesh of our regenerated bodies, and to be our "Everlasting Father" and never leave us or forsake us, as our first father, Adam, had to do because of corruption.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  3. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think you understand the idea of mortality right after Christ's return and establishing of His Kingdom on this earth.

    Rev.20 speaks of those not of the first resurrection being subject to the "second death". In that future time, that is the only... type of death remaining.

    The "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Cor.15, i.e., the "image of the heavenly", is the resurrection body. And the wicked dead are raised to the "resurrection of damnation" also on the day of Jesus' return (John 5:28-29).

    So though those spiritually 'dead' won't be in flesh bodies, but in resurrected spiritual bodies, they will still be LIABLE TO DIE at the "second death". That means their resurrection body with soul going into the future "lake of fire" at the end of the Rev.20 thousand years. Now there's the real idea of 'mortal' for that future time after Christ's return.
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Because we have the return of Christ in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in Revelation 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
    Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions.


    The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever" at the 7th trumpet, in Revelation 11:15.

    The time of the judgment of the dead is found in Revelation 11:18 and also at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

    2Ti 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:

    .
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's silly reasoning.

    When Paul emphatically said flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, there is no other valid replacement clause given that would support your theory. Either you accept what Paul said as written, or you don't. It's apparent you don't.

    Not only did Paul explain the why and how flesh and blood does not inherit the Kingdom of God in that 1 Cor.15 chapter, he even defined the TYPE OF BODY the resurrection is...

    1 Cor 15:42-46
    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    KJV

    Paul defined the resurrection body as that "spiritual body", even using that idea of "a quickening spirit".


    1 Cor 15:48-50
    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.


    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    KJV

    Thus there is plenty more Scripture evidence there in 1 Cor.15 which Paul left us so we'd understand what type of body the resurrection is, showing us clearly it is not one of flesh, but "a spiritual body", which he also called the "image of the heavenly". And he said as we have borne the image of the earthy, which of course means a flesh type body of today, we shall also bear that image of the heavenly, which is what kind of body? A spiritual body, a body similar to the angels.

    That's why Jesus said this to the fleshy thinking Pharisees...

    Mark 12:25
    25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
    KJV
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have never disagreed that Christ's Book of Revelation is not all... in chronological order. I agree with that, which is why we must understand the events being given in the seals, trumpets, and vials, and not get trapped into thinking it happens exactly in the order which John saw and wrote it down.

    This is why I declare the final events of the 6th seal, the 7th trumpet, and 7th vial are all about the same timing of Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord". Now just because Rev.11 after the 7th trumpet mentions events set to occur later after His future thousand years reign, does not mean that happens immediately with that 7th trumpet.

    But with the events of the 7th vial, those events do... occur immediately right then with the 7th vial being poured out into the air.

    What's the difference? The difference is the type of events and the order given in other Bible Scripture that reveals more as to when those certain events will take place. Matt.25 doesn't mention a thousand years reign by Christ and His elect immediately after His return, but Rev.20 does mention it, which Revelation was given later by Jesus to the Churches.

    If you build a ship can you leave the rudder out? No, because it wouldn't be a ship but just a float, because you couldn't steer it. Likewise in study of God's Word, we must strive to study all God's Word so we don't mistakenly leave out an important revealing that helps to properly understand more of the subject written throughout God's Word in other Books and Chapters.
     
  7. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    The question is why would God showed the future time temple which dont belong to those Hebrew in captivity ? If they wouldnt have such a Temple why would God show it to them ???
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  8. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    It would have happened if they didnt kill Jesus as The Messiah who would fulfilled that.
     
  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The same Jesus who stands outside of time and space gave both passages.
    They must agree with each other.
    In Matthew 25 we find that the sheep and goat judgment occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.
    This agrees with 2 Timothy 4:1.
    If it does not agree with your interpretation of Revelation chapter 20, your interpretation of the passage is wrong.

    The nations, and wrath, and the time of the judgment of the dead are all found in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".
    This agrees with both Matthew 25:31-46 and 2 Timothy 4:1, but not with your interpretation of Revelation chapter 20.

    The 1,000 years of Revelation chapter 20 is symbolic of the Church Age, in the same way that the "chain" in the passage is symbolic rather than being a chain made of steel.
    The "first resurrection" of the "souls" that John saw in heaven with Christ, is found in John 5:24.
    Based on 2 Thessalonians chapter 1, Christ returns in "flaming fire".
    The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20.




    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  11. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  12. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  13. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  14. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  15. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    The 7th trump is the 2nd coming, end of this world.

    The 2nd coming, end of this world occurs "Several Times" in the book of Revelation.

    Barean has shown you "Several Times" of this fact.

    The book is taught in parallel teachings of the same event.

    Matthew 25:31-46

    Verse 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne, judgment takes place.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

    Verse 46 The Righteous Obtain "Eternal Life" And Enter The "Eternal Kingdom" In Verse 34

    There Is No Earthly Kingdom Of 1000 Years At The Return Of Jesus Christ.

    "The Eternal Kingdom Has Started"! For Ever And Ever!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  16. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  17. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  18. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Matthew 25:31-46

    Verse 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne, judgment takes place.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

    Verse 46 The Righteous Obtain "Eternal Life" And Enter The "Eternal Kingdom" In Verse 34

    There Is No Earthly Kingdom Of 1000 Years At The Return Of Jesus Christ.

    "The Eternal Kingdom Has Started"! For Ever And Ever!
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's to fulfill prophecy, because Ezekiel 40-47 is not the only OT Scripture which points to the future Millennial sanctuary. Zechariah 6 points to it, Daniel 9:24 with the anointing of the most holy points to it, Hag.2:7 points to it with filling that "house" with glory, and Mal.3:1-2, and then a favorite passage of some who don't realize it's pointing to the priest's abodes in the future sanctuary of Ezekiel...

    John 14:2
    2 In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    KJV

    Someone in another post recently quoted Jesus in Matt.23 when He was telling the unbelieving Jews their house is left desolate, pointing to the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and obviously the continued desolations in Jerusalem all the way up to our time, since Christ has not returned yet to reestablish Israel as before per Ezek.37.

    So there's a reason why the future sanctuary, or Father's house, is revealed for the future involving Jerusalem and future Israel. That is where God has chosen to put His Name and dwell forever. He is going to cleanse it and correct His people, as the future Millennium will not be a good ole' fun time for the majority, but a time many will stand in judgment like Ezek.44 shows. So evidently there must be a correction among those of Israel that led God's people astray which can just as much point to pastors in Christ's Church that have led His sheep astray.
     
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