The loving thing to do is to deport illegal immigrants

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Just a thought. Aren't all Americans 'illegal immigrants' in a sense, apart from original indigenous ones who got shoved off the land and into reserves?

Yup,yup and yup

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

If America is truly a Christian nation, then they should put their money where their mouth is.
The truly loving thing is to help others in distress. Thats what Jesus would do.
Do you think some might harm someone? Yes it is probably going to happen somewhere given the number of people in the world. Are we going to be financially set back taking care of them? Yes we will. That's the cost of love.

I fear most Americans are just interested in maintaining their own possessions, money and state of peacefulness.
"and then they will say to him, when did we not feed the hungry and visit those in prison".......
Just something to think about.

I am fully aware of the consequences Europe is facing for allowing in so many immigrants. In doing so they are acting more Christian than we are. They are making us look really bad to the rest of the world.
Love costs and it can be painful.

Right! The truly loving thing to do would be to help them...they're obviously running from something back at home. Death,poverty...what have have you.

, everyone wants to be a christian until its actually time to be a christian.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

This conversation is meant to be among Christian's and what the right thing is to do to help other people.

Which other people?

Most did bc they wanted better opportunities for themselves & their kids.

Do you think that the US owes such opportunities to those who are not its citizens?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Well, it would seem like you trust in the strength of men; I don't. I trust in God alone.

That is rather superficial, John. God commanded Israel to have an Army. I agree, God did the heavy lifting, but God relied on Israel's men at arms.

I trust God to house, feed and clothe me and my family, too. I still had a job and did it until I retired.

That phrase 'I trust in God alone' leaves out quite a bit of God's teaching.

 

[John Hyperspace]

That is rather superficial, John. God commanded Israel to have an Army.

I'm not sure it's wise to use the earthly things of the old covenent with its conquering warfare as the truths of the spiritual things of the new covenant. Christ does not command us to be earthly warriors going forth to conquer lands by the sword; the opposite is the case (Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10). Even in the old covenant it is clear that the Lord needs no "help" from the puny armies and strength of men; recall the story of Gideon and the reduction of the army of men to virtually nothing so the Lord could prove the point; that by the strength and number of the might of men is no deliverence or defense, but by the hand of the Lord alone; and the event of Elisha and the youth (2 Kings 6:15-17): surely you don't think that the same God that laid waste to Egypt without a single Israelite lifting a sword needs the strength of the arm of man to "help" Him? Perhaps there is a reason for the existence of the armies of Israel that is not about showing that God needs the aid of men to fight His battles for Him?

But the real question is, why do we need an army? For fear? I can understand the secular world having no faith in the hand of God for protection; I am astonished I find such a fear and faithlessness in the churches.

but God relied on Israel's men at arms.

But then why do you suppose the Lord reduce the army of Gideon from 32,000 to 300? Need I even remind you of the armies of Sennacherib? 2 Chronicles 32:10, 2 Chronicles 32:13-15, 2 Kings 19:35, 2 Chronicles 32:22

I trust God to house, feed and clothe me and my family, too. I still had a job and did it until I retired.

That phrase 'I trust in God alone' leaves out quite a bit of God's teaching.

Does it?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I'm not sure it's wise to use the earthly things of the old covenent with its conquering warfare as the truths of the spiritual things of the new covenant.

So God does change His mind? I hadn't known that.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

But the real question is, why do we need an army?

Does "we" mean the United States or the church? Nobody said the church needs an army...

 

[John Hyperspace]

So God does change His mind? I hadn't known that.

I'm not sure that God changed His mind; perhaps His mind never changed, but many aren't understanding His mind and purpose in the first place? After all, Isaiah 55:9

 

[John Hyperspace]

Does "we" mean the United States or the church? Nobody said the church needs an army...

Christians. So I suppose it depends on if the U.S. really is a Christian nation or not. If it is, then by "we" I mean, the U.S. In fact, any nation that claims to be a "Christian nation".

 

[Cimorene]

Cimorene, the Pilgrims, Dutch, Germans, Scandinavians and Asians all came to the United States and either legally or functionally became U. S. citizens. They wanted to be here to stay, to take part in the country and nation and enjoy the liberties and legal equality of this land.

Those who come here in violation of law simply want money. Or, if terrorists, want to kill and destroy. Those who come here to be part of things have a desire to make the U. S. a better place to live for all. Those who simply want money have no such regard. Those who want to kill and destroy have no such regard.

A major difference.

Nope, there isn't a major difference. The majority of people who have immigrated to America in more recent times wanted the same as the part you wrote in bold. They want safety & opportunity for their children. A lot were coming up from areas of Central America where there was huge crime, extraordinary poverty. They feared for their children's lives. I agree that it's better to come here legally but some who are in desperate situations are scared to wait the many years it can take. The overwhelming majority are not killing, destroying, or causing harm.
Why American Cities Are Competing Over Immigrant Populations

 

[Winken]

Well, it would appear you trust in the armies of men, and their earthly might to protect you. I don't. God is my army and my defense.

On the contrary, I trust in Him alone. I do not want to tarry about in lack-luster Christianity while we are being invaded.

 

[Cimorene]

What has happened to their faith, today, right now?

Can you clarify? Are you asking what became of the Pilgrim's faith?

Hypothetical. Unrelated to existing serious (and mounting) issues.

It's not hypothetical. It's completely logical that if everybody throughout US history had the attitude that it was the most loving thing to do to stay put in their own country they wouldn't have moved there. It absolutely relates to existing issues.

 

[Winken]

Well, it appears you have fear, and little faith in the promise of God to protect you; and that your love has been overcome by your fear. Mine hasn't, and never will be. My love knows no fear, because God is my fortress.

I don't have a single ounce of fear. My Hope is built on nothing less than His Blood and Righteousness. What I am preaching against is opening a wide-open door into Islam, boiler-plate Christianity, cults, atheism, and so on.

 

[John Hyperspace]

On the contrary, I trust in Him alone. I do not want to tarry about in lack-luster Christianity while we are being invaded.

I'm not sure what you're meaning to say. That you don't trust God? That you fear? That you want people to kill for you? That invasion is something you want to avoid? That God can't protect you? What are you meaning to say?

 

[John Hyperspace]

I don't have a single ounce of fear. My Hope is built on nothing less than His Blood and Righteousness. What I am preaching against is opening a wide-open door into Islam, boiler-plate Christianity, cults, atheism, and so on.

I'm not sure you understand that in the U.S. we already have freedom of religion. The door is already wide open. What does this have to do with trusting in the false strength of men to protect you, instead of in Almighty God?

 

[Winken]

Christians. So I suppose it depends on if the U.S. really is a Christian nation or not. If it is, then by "we" I mean, the U.S. In fact, any nation that claims to be a "Christian nation".

We are a nation of Christians. The problem is we are lukewarm. We go to an assembly on Saturday or Sunday and then do zero zilch nada to win the lost. Stand outside your assembly; ask each one exiting if they would join with you and door-to-door witnessing, participating in local assemblies of Christians each Saturday in a local park, proclaiming the Gospel.

Not far from our home, in a public park we have had assemblies of Muslims and Black Panthers. I have never seen a Christian assembly there, and we have had four visitations by Christians in the last 25 years. They were members of our Christian assembly. Not a way to feed the flock.

 

[Winken]

Can you clarify? Are you asking what became of the Pilgrim's faith?

It's not hypothetical. It's completely logical that if everybody throughout US history had the attitude that it was the most loving thing to do to stay put in their own country they wouldn't have moved there. It absolutely relates to existing issues.

Since that did not happen, your presentation is hypothetical.

 

[Winken]

I'm not sure you understand that in the U.S. we already have freedom of religion. The door is already wide open. What does this have to do with trusting in the false strength of men to protect you, instead of in Almighty God?

We are foolish to trust in the false strength of man to protect us; my point exactly. Our everlasting Trust is in Him and Him alone. At the same time, we are not going to sit on our hands during an alien invasion. We Christians are going to come out swinging, a Bible in both hands. Or?..........

 

[John Hyperspace]

We are a nation of Christians. The problem is we are lukewarm.

Well, this thread does seem to indicate a very lukewarm faith (if not, cold/non-existent) in regards to the power of God to protect them that are called by His name.

 

[John Hyperspace]

We Christians are going to come out swinging, a Bible in both hands. Or?..........

Jesus didn't come out swinging. I would advise caution against "coming out swinging" you may just find yourself swinging against God.