The loving thing to do is to deport illegal immigrants

[Monk Brendan]

Deporting illegal immigrants is the right thing to do especially when they come from undeveloped countries. I believe this sincerely.

Deporting illegal immigrants is the right thing to do because they broke the law and entered the country illegally. It doesn't matter where they come from, or how underdeveloped they are. Doing the right thing, and standing in line and waiting your turn, so that you can enter the US legally is all I ask.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Just a thought. Aren't all Americans 'illegal immigrants' in a sense, apart from original indigenous ones who got shoved off the land and into reserves?

Hold on there! I was born in the USA. While I have various ethnic roots, mostly European, I was born here, my parents were born here, and all of my grandparents were born here. As a matter of fact, on my father's side, I have ancestors who were part of America from 1640 or thereabout. More than one of my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War!

The only reason I am against "illegal" immigrants (call them undocumented if you will) is the ILLEGAL part. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants.

 

[Monk Brendan]

That, I suggest is the modern sticking point; the idea of 'We want to live here, but we want to be exempt from the laws'.

Last week, here in Phoenix, a 7 year old boy was run down by an undocumented immigrant who did not have a driver's license, nor any right to live in this country at all. The parents of this child are still in mourning. Can someone explain to the parents that it was okay for this to happen because the woman wanted to live in American NOW?

 

[Monk Brendan]

I did escape from PDSR California. Much of it is still nice.

And I escaped from the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Wisconsin.

 

[ExodusMe]

This is going to sound harsh, but land belongs to whoever can hold it; whether nations or individuals.

At the same time, one can make an argument for the land area commonly known as "Israel" belongs to the "Israelites" by way of a promise of God most High.

Since the beginning of 'nations', entities have maintained the right to control immigration and emigration. Nothing new there. And yes, an individual wanting to leave a specific place is long established.

Probably never be that simple.

Actually, Mexico really wouldn't be so bad without the corruption, graft and Mexican government (but I repeat myself). The climate is quite nice - at least by the oceans - and there are a great many natural resources.

Without the functionally feudal system of government/economy, Mexico could be a world power.

I did escape from PDSR California. Much of it is still nice.

Indeed. Siberia, even without the Soviet Union is far too cold most of the year. For instance. Tahiti might be nice, except for eating fish. Can't abide fish.

Yeah, I would definitely agree with everything you have said. My discussion with the other member was in regards to how people have a 'right to' land (e.g. indian tribes or your house). It gets a little more complicated especially if those matters are meant to be settled peacefully, because, short of walking up to your house with an arsenal and demanding it from you, the other alternative is to decide trace it back to whoever got it first, etc... It is just a silly way of determining things and only exposes the selfishness of humanity, because rather than sharing things or working hard for what we do have, we squabble over other peoples stuff. /rant

If we put people in a box, then it is easy to treat them as a group and do whatever serves the best interests of our own group.

On the other hand, if we treat our neighbor as the Spirit of Christ tells us too then we will only work for the interests of our neighbor, the one in front of us, irrespective of their citizenship or other status, at our own expense.

If my neighbor is an illegal immigrant, I find it difficult to see how sending him back to a squalid 3rd world situation would serve his best interests.

What if I see you as hurting the illegal immigrant by taking them into our country? You think it is okay to displace a human from their family and people so they can get a car and nice TV? I think it is kinder to help them where they are and help build up their community and people.

 

[ExodusMe]

LOL, My impression of the good ole USA is that for the most its pretty squalid anyway.

Nevertheless if in the Spirit of Christ I am Loving my neighbor, the one who is before me with nothing (and perhaps some less than desirable trait or culture to boot), he will begin to understand the goodness that is in my life, because he will have it in his life to, and he will want it for himself so that he in turn can Love another. This is may not be the economy of the USA, or NZ for that matter but it is the economy of the Kingdom.

Where I come from suffers from the opposite problem, that of the semi retired wealthy (a few Americans among them) moving in and trying to tell us that what we have been doing for a lifetime or so is offensive to them and so we need to change to meet their particular standards.

It seems that where ever humans with different standards interact the Love of Christ is lacking.

Loving someone does not mean agreeing with them. You are just conflating these ideas. Your experience is the nature of community. Welcome.

 

[Monk Brendan]

When the U.S. stopped funding world-wide abortion, 8 countries picked up the funding. The question is "what are we inviting" into the country in our future? Records show that by 2050 only 1/2 of Americans will be of caucasian origin. How many will be Jesus-denying Muslims, or other Jesus-denying groups. We're sinking into despair, folks, when anti-Christians move into governmental control. Is the end near?

That is really rather bigoted. I don't care what color my neighbor is, or what church he goes to. My job is to love him. But he has to follow the rules getting in here.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Secular Governments do not have any reason to consider doing the loving thing. As the US is not a theocracy , the self interest of the country takes precedence over all other considerations.

 

[ExodusMe]

Secular Governments do not have any reason to consider doing the loving thing. As the US is not a theocracy , the self interest of the country takes precedence over all other considerations.

This conversation is meant to be among Christian's and what the right thing is to do to help other people. I don't care about secular governments.

 

[Cimorene]

If everybody had that attitude, America never would have become the country that it is, bc the Pilgrims, Dutch settlers, all the Irish people who immigrated there during the potato famine, etc, etc, would have stayed in their own countries.

 

[SolomonVII]

Just a thought. Aren't all Americans 'illegal immigrants' in a sense, apart from original indigenous ones who got shoved off the land and into reserves?

No. There were no laws in place at the time regulating entry. To be illegal, first there must be a law to break.
As for the original indigenous, they entered into the lands the same way as migrations have always worked, pushing out those who had come before. The people of the Americas have always been in flux. At lot had changed in the 30000 years before Christopher and Leif and Samuel and John sailed the Atlantic.

 

[ExodusMe]

If everybody had that attitude, America never would have become the country that it is, bc the Pilgrims, Dutch settlers, all the Irish people who immigrated there during the potato famine, etc, etc, would have stayed in their own countries.

I agree with your sentiment, but Mexico isn't going through a famine. The problem is their government.

 

[Cimorene]

I agree with your sentiment, but Mexico isn't going through a famine. The problem is their government.

Did the Pilgrims come to America bc a famine? The Dutch? Germans? Scandinavians? Asians? For many, many years people from around the world immigrated to America. Most did bc they wanted better opportunities for themselves & their kids.

 

[Winken]

If everybody had that attitude, America never would have become the country that it is, bc the Pilgrims, Dutch settlers, all the Irish people who immigrated there during the potato famine, etc, etc, would have stayed in their own countries.

Hypothetical. Unrelated to existing serious (and mounting) issues.

 

[Winken]

Did the Pilgrims come to America bc a famine? The Dutch? Germans? Scandinavians? Asians? For many, many years people from around the world immigrated to America. Most did bc they wanted better opportunities for themselves & their kids.

What has happened to their faith, today, right now?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Did the Pilgrims come to America bc a famine? The Dutch? Germans? Scandinavians? Asians? For many, many years people from around the world immigrated to America. Most did bc they wanted better opportunities for themselves & their kids.

Cimorene, the Pilgrims, Dutch, Germans, Scandinavians and Asians all came to the United States and either legally or functionally became U. S. citizens. They wanted to be here to stay, to take part in the country and nation and enjoy the liberties and legal equality of this land.

Those who come here in violation of law simply want money. Or, if terrorists, want to kill and destroy. Those who come here to be part of things have a desire to make the U. S. a better place to live for all. Those who simply want money have no such regard. Those who want to kill and destroy have no such regard.

A major difference.

 

[tansy]

Hold on there! I was born in the USA. While I have various ethnic roots, mostly European, I was born here, my parents were born here, and all of my grandparents were born here. As a matter of fact, on my father's side, I have ancestors who were part of America from 1640 or thereabout. More than one of my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War!

The only reason I am against "illegal" immigrants (call them undocumented if you will) is the ILLEGAL part. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants.

That's fair enough. I was just kind of trying to make some sort of point, but not very well. For all I know my ancestors may have arrived in Britain from some other country, oppressing the locals. The British Empire took over other countries. But I'm afraid I've made rather a digression
I do agree with you that immigrants should enter legally. We have a similar problem in Britain and much of the rest of Europe...it's a difficult problem to sort out.

 

[John Hyperspace]

But disbanding the U. S. defense mechanism sounds so inviting. It's an invitation to national suicide in reality.

Well, it would seem like you trust in the strength of men; I don't. I trust in God alone.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Throw in the towel for the USA. 'Nuff said.

Well, it would appear you trust in the armies of men, and their earthly might to protect you. I don't. God is my army and my defense.

 

[John Hyperspace]

The part that is missing is the inroad of non-Christians with multiple children, or those who label themselves Christian with a lack of understanding what that involves, disrupting and eventually destroying the USA.

Well, it appears you have fear, and little faith in the promise of God to protect you; and that your love has been overcome by your fear. Mine hasn't, and never will be. My love knows no fear, because God is my fortress.