The loving thing to do is to deport illegal immigrants

[ExodusMe]

I hear love thrown around a lot. Maybe 'love' isn't the approriate word for the title, but let me phrase it another way. Deporting illegal immigrants is the right thing to do especially when they come from undeveloped countries. I believe this sincerely.

The reason I believe this is because the mentality of an illegal immigrant is "there is some benefit or gain I can achieve in this place (U.S.) and I cannot achieve it in my home country". What if Abraham Lincoln (or MLK & civil rights movement?) said "Hey, slavery is wrong, I'm leaving this place" which kills the momentum of the Civil War and the South ends up winning and slavery is institutionalized nationally. That is a pretty extreme example, but my point is that if the mentality were to change from 'let's go and get it where it is' to 'let's make a change here and now', I think many of these undeveloped countries would be better off. We are stealing Mexico's 'good' people. They need them. Now how do I justify this as a Christian? I think it is silly to think that somehow we are better of in the U.S. than other nations. We have a TV and warm house, but most of the luxuries we enjoy in America are spiritually suicidal. Most men are addicted to inappropriate contentography and parents don't even see their children. Don't get me wrong it would be tough to be homeless or adjust to another way of life, but only because I have lived in comfort my entire life. Christian's shouldn't be saying "hey guys look how awesome it is here. I don't want to go to your country. It is dirty and there is no TV." We should be going out and seeking them if we want to help them and their people.

Disclaimer #1: I love immigrants and everyone. If someone ends up chiming in and saying "yeah immigrants are terrible!". I don't mean it that way. I just think that we are not helping the world by taking 'good people' from other nations.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I hear love thrown around a lot. Maybe 'love' isn't the approriate word for the title, but let me phrase it another way. Deporting illegal immigrants is the right thing to do especially when they come from undeveloped countries. I believe this sincerely.

The reason I believe this is because the mentality of an illegal immigrant is "there is some benefit or gain I can achieve in this place (U.S.) and I cannot achieve it in my home country". What if Abraham Lincoln (or MLK & civil rights movement?) said "Hey, slavery is wrong, I'm leaving this place" which kills the momentum of the Civil War and the South ends up winning and slavery is institutionalized nationally. That is a pretty extreme example, but my point is that if the mentality were to change from 'let's go and get it where it is' to 'let's make a change here and now', I think many of these undeveloped countries would be better off. We are stealing Mexico's 'good' people. They need them. Now how do I justify this as a Christian? I think it is silly to think that somehow we are better of in the U.S. than other nations. We have a TV and warm house, but most of the luxuries we enjoy in America are spiritually suicidal. Most men are addicted to inappropriate contentography and parents don't even see their children. Don't get me wrong it would be tough to be homeless or adjust to another way of life, but only because I have lived in comfort my entire life. Christian's shouldn't be saying "hey guys look how awesome it is here. I don't want to go to your country. It is dirty and there is no TV." We should be going out and seeking them if we want to help them and their people.

Disclaimer #1: I love immigrants and everyone. If someone ends up chiming in and saying "yeah immigrants are terrible!". I don't mean it that way. I just think that we are not helping the world by taking 'good people' from other nations.

I believe there are some major problems with your argument; but setting those aside I have a question which may not seem relevant, but actually allows me to understand your underlying thoughts: are you also for legislation of a law mandating people who have moved from a city/town with no job opportunities to another city/town with more opportunities be legally obligated to move back to their city/town of origin? That this would be the 'loving/right' thing to do? That anyone who has moved from a "poor town" to a "prosperous city" has done the 'unloving/wrong' thing by moving to another place?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The civil authorities owe love first and foremost to their subjects, not to aliens.

 

[John Hyperspace]

to their subjects

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Whatever the terminology, a government's first duty is to their own people.

One also wonders why Mexico is such a poor country, when right next door is the United States and then Canada, which are both much better off.

It certainly isn't due to natural resources.

 

[inquiring mind]

Unfortunately, the world’s disregarded immigrants have learned (up to now anyway) that the best way to benefit by America is to snub any restrictions it imposes on them; just like many countries themselves have taken advantage of the fact that they will be in much better shape if they go to war with the United States... and lose. We have to learn to say “no”.

 

[FireDragon76]

"Tough love"? Call me incredulous.

 

[ExodusMe]

are you also for legislation of a law mandating people who have moved from a city/town with no job opportunities to another city/town with more opportunities be legally obligated to move back to their city/town of origin? That this would be the 'loving/right' thing to do? That anyone who has moved from a "poor town" to a "prosperous city" has done the 'unloving/wrong' thing by moving to another place?

I don't think that question is fair. You are assuming that there are "NO REAL" job opportunities in the place they live. Would you actually say that there is a place in the world where you cannot work (either forge your own food or work for a currency?). Maybe if they lived in the desert where nothing grows, but BUT BUT even if there are social issues that surround why they can't get a job are you saying it would be better for them to leave their country/not help their fellow countrymen by protesting the social issues and flee to an 'easier' lifestyle? Immigrants need to be empowered in their own countries. How are the corrupt governments ever going to change if the immigrants flee to America?

 

[Goodbook]

Sorry you guys seem to be having a huge problem. I dont know if your country is actually pulling mexicans in or they are pushing people out...or maybe mexico can become like the 51st state or something. Hold on, you do have a 'new mexico' state dont you?

Well no wonder.

 

[Goodbook]

Christians stance on immigaration...well Jesus was a refugee in Egypt for a time. And the bible does say not to oppress the foreigner in your land because of how the israelites were actually looked after in egypt. For a time...until the Pharoah said there were too many...

Thing is do these people WANT to go back to their homelands? The reason why the israelites left is because God wanted them to celebrate his feasts and to have their own land...and he was going heal their promised land.

 

[tansy]

Just a thought. Aren't all Americans 'illegal immigrants' in a sense, apart from original indigenous ones who got shoved off the land and into reserves?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Sorry you guys seem to be having a huge problem.

Thank you, and yes, we are.

I dont know if your country is actually pulling mexicans in or they are pushing people out...

Perhaps both. Mexico has incredible unemployment rates. (Thirty years ago the Mexican unemployment was something like 40%; not sure if it's changed much but it doesn't appear to be any better.) Regular people in Mexico live in pretty sad conditions.

...or maybe mexico can become like the 51st state or something.

Since the primary cause of the execrable state of the Mexican economy is the widespread corruption allowed by or uncontrolled (for whatever reason) by the government of Mexico, the only way to 'fix' the problem is to remove that government and install a more or less honest government. ("Honest" in the case of politicians being usually 'relative' in meaning.) Such an event is not very likely. I find that sad for the common people of Mexico.

One of the common claims is that the United States 'stole' land from Mexico. The truth is, most of the land was seized by the U. S. after winning wars initiated by the then-current Mexican government; some land was actually purchased as part of the treaty after one of those wars.

I hold it was the saddest event in Mexican history when the United States didn't seize their whole country down to the Guatemalan border. Then all of Mexico would have been part of the United States for over 150 years. There would still be problems, but at least not in the current form and citizens of Mexico would have it much better on the whole. (Your 51st state idea.)

Hold on, you do have a 'new mexico' state dont you?

Well no wonder.

The U. S. state of New Mexico was adopted into the Union in 1912. Not a recent event in human time lines. Long before the current 'problems'.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Just a thought. Aren't all Americans 'illegal immigrants' in a sense, apart from original indigenous ones who got shoved off the land and into reserves?

Under what law?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Christians stance on immigaration... the bible does say not to oppress the foreigner in your land ...

The Bible does say not to oppress foreigners. In the same section, the Mosaic Law, the Bible says all foreigners were to be subject to the Mosaic Law (one could argue the 'law of the land') and observe all the laws and morals of the Jewish people.

That, I suggest is the modern sticking point; the idea of 'We want to live here, but we want to be exempt from the laws'.

 

[ExodusMe]

Sorry you guys seem to be having a huge problem. I dont know if your country is actually pulling mexicans in or they are pushing people out...or maybe mexico can become like the 51st state or something. Hold on, you do have a 'new mexico' state dont you?

Well no wonder.

Neither really right now. This is just a topic to discuss the philosophy of ethics surrounding the situation.

Christians stance on immigaration...well Jesus was a refugee in Egypt for a time. And the bible does say not to oppress the foreigner in your land because of how the israelites were actually looked after in egypt. For a time...until the Pharoah said there were too many...

Thing is do these people WANT to go back to their homelands? The reason why the israelites left is because God wanted them to celebrate his feasts and to have their own land...and he was going heal their promised land.

1) This doesn't really deal with what has been said previously, but is a separate argument. You are comparing the nation of Israel (a Theocracy) that existed >2000 years ago to a modern Democracy.
2) I agree with you. As a Christian, if someone came to my house and didn't have somewhere to stay I would help them out.

My OP was designed to think less about the individual immigrant and more about how each individual immigrant is affecting it's collective people. For instance, the father or son who goes to America to get a job, but he has to leave his family behind or whatever. What if he stayed behind and they built something better for Mexico?

Just a thought. Aren't all Americans 'illegal immigrants' in a sense, apart from original indigenous ones who got shoved off the land and into reserves?

No, because in that sense you are just saying that because so and so was here first they are the "legal" immigrants. In that case it wouldn't be anyone who currently lives here because it would belong to dead people.

 

[tansy]

Under what law?

Good point, but that's why I said 'in a sense'. Which raises the question of what or whose law should it be in the first place?
Obviously there are all kinds of reasons why various countries restrict immigration and all kinds of very valid reasons why many want to leave their own country. We have similar problems in Europe at the moment.
Makes you think sometimes, if everybody from some countries all came and lived in one's own, then their country would be empty, leaving room for all of us to relocate there LOL. But would we want to? I don't think I'd fancy living in Mexico, not sure about the USA for that matter (at least not some parts)and definitely not in some of the more inhospitable countries climate, earthquake, volcano-wise etc.

 

[tansy]

No, because in that sense you are just saying that because so and so was here first they are the "legal" immigrants. In that case it wouldn't be anyone who currently lives here because it would belong to dead people.

Yes, I know, that's why I said 'in a sense'...but I was kind of raising the point that these things are very difficult to sort out and who decides?

 

[Goodbook]

well you see america WANTED these immigrants and opened their doors.

the illegal ones just didn't go through the right channels.

As for staying behind, well, look Jesus could have stayed behind in Israel but then he would have been killed. Sometimes its literally, life or death.

You don't know how it is in other countries what the situation is, how bad it can be. If there's no jobs, there's no jobs.

 

[Goodbook]

Ruth, a moabitess decided to go with Naomi instead of stay behind where there was famine. Orpah, chose the other way to go back to her family.

When you are faced with starvation, or leaving your family behind, either way you do have to make some choices and this is the reality for MANY people around the world.

 

[ExodusMe]

Yes, I know, that's why I said 'in a sense'...but I was kind of raising the point that these things are very difficult to sort out and who decides?

Yeah, I have thought about the same thing and the more I think about it the sillier it gets. If I am the first person to step on a piece of land does that give me the right to claim it as mine? It is childish really. Biblically, the land is here to benefit all of us. We also know biblically that Governments are meant to be followed because they are there to protect us (Romans 13). The misfortune of the Mexican people is that they have a government that does not protect them. I think that rather than coming to America, the Mexican people should be empowered to change their own country and government for the better and we should be helping them with that rather than aiding a few immigrants here and there. Changing Mexico will help more Mexican's than the illegal immigrants we currently help.