The lost ten tribes, Samaritans and today's Jews?

[GoldenKingGaze]

I have studied to find that the Northern Kingdom and the ten tribes were lost by being taken into captivity and intermarried with five races of gentiles. And that this was unacceptable and on return to Israel they were called Samaritans. Many of them did not return. The Samaritan woman at the well in the Gospel had "five husbands". What makes a gentile race unacceptable for Hebrews to marry into? Are Greeks and other Europeans like that? Are any of the Jews today Samaritans?

 

[Junia]

I have studied to find that the Northern Kingdom and the ten tribes were lost by being taken into captivity and intermarried with five races of gentiles. And that this was unacceptable and on return to Israel they were called Samaritans. Many of them did not return. The Samaritan woman at the well in the Gospel had "five husbands". What makes a gentile race unacceptable for Hebrews to marry into? Are Greeks and other Europeans like that? Are any of the Jews today Samaritans?

Interesting. I don't know much about the lost tribes except that they have been scattered all over the earth in every nation and race. Where did you find this info about the Samaritans etc

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Samaritans are most likely the Israelites who remained in what was the northern kingdom after the Assyrian conquest. As for those Israelites who were taken into captivity, they most likely, eventually, assimilated into the general populace of the Assyrian Empire.

The idea of there being "ten lost tribes" is generally false. There's no such thing as the ten lost tribes. For one, while the kingdom of Judah was predominantly split between the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, it was also home to the tribe of Simeon, and since the tribe of Levi was never given their own territory but had towns throughout Israel, there were most definitely Levites in Judah.

And, as already mentioned, not every northern Israelite was taken into captivity, rather the Assyrians would have only taken the wealthier and more powerful people, that leaves a lot of Israelites still living there. That's where the Samaritans come from. The Samaritans specifically trace their ancestry to the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh.

What of the other tribes? Probably remained there as well, again there would have been some assimilation into broader Assyrian, and later Babylonian, and later Persian, and later Greek culture. The Ethiopian Jews claim descent from the tribe of Dan. And we can safely assume other Diaspora communities who likewise traced their ancestry to one or more of the tribes of Israel.

The Epistle of St. James is addressed to the twelve tribes of the Diaspora, the implication being that there were Jews of all tribes scattered and living in dispersion throughout the known world, and thus James aims his attention to primarily Jewish Christians scattered among the Diaspora.

The idea that two tribes remained, and ten tribes were lost simply doesn't bear the weight of historical scrutiny. It's a romantic idea that there are these lost tribes of Jews somewhere out there in the world; but it's also a myth that has more often than not used to foster many ridiculous racist/anti-semitic quack and conspiratorial theories. Historically there are no lost tribes, there are only dispersed people, some assimilated, some retained their distinctly northern Israelite religious identity (Samaritanism), some were part of the larger and broader Jewish world.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Junia]

The Samaritans are most likely the Israelites who remained in what was the northern kingdom after the Assyrian conquest. As for those Israelites who were taken into captivity, they most likely, eventually, assimilated into the general populace of the Assyrian Empire.

The idea of there being "ten lost tribes" is generally false. There's no such thing as the ten lost tribes. For one, while the kingdom of Judah was predominantly split between the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, it was also home to the tribe of Simeon, and since the tribe of Levi was never given their own territory but had towns throughout Israel, there were most definitely Levites in Judah.

And, as already mentioned, not every northern Israelite was taken into captivity, rather the Assyrians would have only taken the wealthier and more powerful people, that leaves a lot of Israelites still living there. That's where the Samaritans come from. The Samaritans specifically trace their ancestry to the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh.

What of the other tribes? Probably remained there as well, again there would have been some assimilation into broader Assyrian, and later Babylonian, and later Persian, and later Greek culture. The Ethiopian Jews claim descent from the tribe of Dan. And we can safely assume other Diaspora communities who likewise traced their ancestry to one or more of the tribes of Israel.

The Epistle of St. James is addressed to the twelve tribes of the Diaspora, the implication being that there were Jews of all tribes scattered and living in dispersion throughout the known world, and thus James aims his attention to primarily Jewish Christians scattered among the Diaspora.

The idea that two tribes remained, and ten tribes were lost simply doesn't bear the weight of historical scrutiny. It's a romantic idea that there are these lost tribes of Jews somewhere out there in the world; but it's also a myth that has more often than not used to foster many ridiculous racist/anti-semitic quack and conspiratorial theories. Historically there are no lost tribes, there are only dispersed people, some assimilated, some retained their distinctly northern Israelite religious identity (Samaritanism), some were part of the larger and broader Jewish world.

-CryptoLutheran

I

Good point. The bible refers to the 12 tribes and they make up the 144 000 but never does it say any are lost

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I did a short Catholic Introduction the the Bible by Jeff Cavins and Sarah Christmeyer. It was called Unlocking the Mystery of the Bible. I am not anti-semetic. I have heard of the tribe of Dan in Ethiopia before. And I also know of Revelation and the blessing to the twelve tribes of Israel. Somehow there still are the twelve tribes. I think it is in Ezra that Ezra is very bold and turns away the families of Israelites upon their return if they married certain pagans. My understanding is that those families are Samaritans. I will check.

 

[Junia]

God's relationship all His people.is covenant based. I struggle
e with the idea that God would lose or reject His own people when Bible makes it very clear that the one doing the rejecting is us! Not Him. God doesn't stop loving us but we can stop loving Him.

you cAnnot be unchosen. You can choose to rebel though

 

[Junia]

I did a short Catholic Introduction the the Bible by Jeff Cavins and Sarah Christmeyer. It was called Unlocking the Mystery of the Bible. I am not anti-semetic. I have heard of the tribe of Dan in Ethiopia before. And I also know of Revelation and the blessing to the twelve tribes of Israel. Somehow there still are the twelve tribes. I think it is in Ezra that Ezra is very bold and turns away the families of Israelites upon their return if they married certain pagans. My understanding is that those families are Samaritans. I will check.

I

Thanks this very informative

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Ezra 9 and 10 mentions the separating and repentance from taking pagan wives. It does not say where they went to live.

I have also heard of people with Hebrew names in Afghanistan. My own neighbour from there had a Bible name.

I think this is also the origin on Zoroastrianism outside Israel. The Maggi and the one God and one leading evil figure.

 

[garee]

I did a short Catholic Introduction the the Bible by Jeff Cavins and Sarah Christmeyer. It was called Unlocking the Mystery of the Bible. I am not anti-semetic. I have heard of the tribe of Dan in Ethiopia before. And I also know of Revelation and the blessing to the twelve tribes of Israel. Somehow there still are the twelve tribes. I think it is in Ezra that Ezra is very bold and turns away the families of Israelites upon their return if they married certain pagans. My understanding is that those families are Samaritans. I will check.

The genealogy of the spiritual seed Christ ended when the Son of Man Jesus was born. Today no person could even trace back there ancestry to that time period . . the division of family's as sects in Israel is not knowable . No need to know. You could say the shadows became substance.

I think the idea of lost tribes is found in the mystery as to why only 12 apostles a remnant of all apostles were set aside for as to its purpose with Judas missing. . And the same 12 tribes with the tribe of Dan missing in the book of Revelation .

In Revelation 21 the bride of Christ according to the golden rule the measure of faith in respect to the unseen eternal and not the literal measure of mankind the temporal things seen the mystery is made known.,

There the bride of Christ the church is shown as a city made up of gates to represent tribes and walls of the same city made up of sent ones called apostles.

Dan used to represent the spirit of judgment as to the letter of the law "death" will not be part of the city prepared as the bride or wife of Christ. (both terms are used in Revelation 21.)

The spirt of judgment (Dan) is pictured as those who follow false prophecy the poison of serpents also recognizing them as false apostles like that of Judas or what Jesus called a brood of vipers. Using the term falling backward slain by the spirit or break neck from falling or hung .

Genesis 49:15-17 King James Version (KJV) And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute. Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Like many principles of the law is shown and then a living examples of it being worked out. as two witnesses of God. The law and the prophecy. The working out of the law.

John 18:4-6 King James Version (KJV)Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

The power of the spoken word. I AM He

Literally fulfilling the falling backward breaking the neck. Again falling back is synonymous of hanged breaking neck

Mathew 27:4 -5 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

No Dan in the description of the bride or Judas

12 tribes represent all of the old testament saints while 12 apostles represent all of the new testament saints. The bride the church .
.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The Jews are probably mostly descended from the Hebrew fathers and are elect on this account. Just anyone has access to Jesus' sacred blood. But the Jews first. And now that the graces of God are focused on us gentiles it is good if the Jews join us in taking God's grace. And God bless Israel with right and wise dreams and answers to the nations troubles.

 

[garee]

The Jews are probably mostly descended from the Hebrew fathers and are elect on this account. Just anyone has access to Jesus' sacred blood. But the Jews first. And now that the graces of God are focused on us gentiles it is good if the Jews join us in taking God's grace. And God bless Israel with right and wise dreams and answers to the nations troubles.

Jesus said of his own flesh signified outwardly as sinful. It profits for nothing, zero.

Corrupted dying flesh and blood could never enter the new living order.

While the life of the flesh is in the literal blood, literal blood without the unseen Spirt of Christ has no value . The one time promised outward demonstration of the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world is of two working togethter (the Father and Son) in mutual submission and perfect harmony as one God. . not seen.

Neither Jewish flesh or gentile flesh profits for anything. In the end of the matter both Jew and Gentile, male and female receive a new body incorruptible body that cannot procreate. not made up of the corruptible things of this creation (flesh and blood) ..

 

[tampasteve]

What makes a gentile race unacceptable for Hebrews to marry into?

Because scripture advises against it for Jews/Hebrews/Israelites.

Are Greeks and other Europeans like that?

Overall, no.

Are any of the Jews today Samaritans?

No, Jews and Samritans are not the same. They share a common base scripture in the form of the Torah, but even then the content varies slightly. The Samaritan Torah has the verses written to support their side of the religion, primarily to support worship at Mt. Gerizim rather than Jerusalem.

Ezra 9 and 10 mentions the separating and repentance from taking pagan wives. It does not say where they went to live.

Historically they likely went to Israel (north of Judea) and east out of Judea.

I have also heard of people with Hebrew names in Afghanistan. My own neighbour from there had a Bible name.

Sure, the Jewish people spread all over the Old World in antiquity. There are or were Jews in what we now call Spain, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Yemen, India, China, etc.

I think this is also the origin on Zoroastrianism outside Israel. The Maggi and the one God and one leading evil figure.

Zoroastrianism and likely the Magi originated in the area we call Iran or Persia. The idea of one god, monotheism, has been around in many different areas. Whether they influenced each other or to what extent is unclear. Same for the dualistic idea of Zoroastrianism.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Jesus said of his own flesh signified outwardly as sinful. It profits for nothing, zero.

Corrupted dying flesh and blood could never enter the new living order.

While the life of the flesh is in the literal blood, literal blood without the unseen Spirt of Christ has no value . The one time promised outward demonstration of the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world is of two working togethter (the Father and Son) in mutual submission and perfect harmony as one God. . not seen.

Neither Jewish flesh or gentile flesh profits for anything. In the end of the matter both Jew and Gentile, male and female receive a new body incorruptible body that cannot procreate. not made up of the corruptible things of this creation (flesh and blood) ..

Paul wrote in Romans 9 or 10 that the Jews are elect on account of the patriarchs.

 

[garee]

Paul wrote in Romans 9 or 10 that the Jews are elect on account of the patriarchs.

Patriarchs are heads of their own immediate family .Whenever two or three gather together under the authority of all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) Christ is there working with them

Patriarchs a law of the father as oral traditions of mankind .Fathers kings and princes a hierarchy of men are not the head of all the families rather than of God not seen. Each family has its own DNA that make them different .

The spiritual seed Christ (one) was shown coming to rest at the birth of the Son of man. It ended the generation of Christ. The spirutl unseen seed by which mankind is born from above .. the second birth.

Today a proper division of tribes would be impossible to gather. And even if we could determine tribes it would have no gospel meaning or value in knowing Christ who is not a man as us. .That temporal genealogy "the spiritual seed of Christ" by which men are born again from above came to a end; we know no man after the corrupted flesh of mankind.

In that way the previous time period when there was Kings in Israel (the abomination of desolation) the time of reformation came and the new kingdom of priests men and woman from all nations has been in affect for two thousand literal years .

The time of tribulation for the outward Jew one like never before or ever again. Again that period when the faithless Jews as fools, no God in their hard hearts. Those Jews became jealous of the surrounding nation Not desires . They were in used as a parable (hiding the unsen gospel understand ing from those who served another authority (Patriarchs) It all came to a end when Jesus said it is finished and the Father rent the 70 ft. veil from the top to the bottom to expose there was no Jewish flesh standing in the holy of holies place . we walk or understand by believing the unseen work of God.

Many from my experience disregard the importance of the reformation and what work it restored. as if it never did occur . it is the same carbon copy as a pattern as the 15 th. century reformation .

Men calling all things written in the law and prophets(sola scriptura) "heresy" so they could keep the oral tradition as a "law of the fathers" or "law of the Patriarchs"

The Holy anointing or teaching Spirit using the temporal things seen the signified, in parables as figures for that time present. (abomination of desolation)

The reformation made desolate the abomination of desolation .Men standing in the unseen holy place of the hidden glory of our living God came to a end.

Hebrew 9:8-11 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the "time of reformation". But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Patriarchs are heads of their own immediate family .Whenever two or three gather together under the authority of all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) Christ is there working with them

Patriarchs a law of the father as oral traditions of mankind .Fathers kings and princes a hierarchy of men are not the head of all the families rather than of God not seen. Each family has its own DNA that make them different .

The spiritual seed Christ (one) was shown coming to rest at the birth of the Son of man. It ended the generation of Christ. The spirutl unseen seed by which mankind is born from above .. the second birth.

Today a proper division of tribes would be impossible to gather. And even if we could determine tribes it would have no gospel meaning or value in knowing Christ who is not a man as us. .That temporal genealogy "the spiritual seed of Christ" by which men are born again from above came to a end; we know no man after the corrupted flesh of mankind.

In that way the previous time period when there was Kings in Israel (the abomination of desolation) the time of reformation came and the new kingdom of priests men and woman from all nations has been in affect for two thousand literal years .

The time of tribulation for the outward Jew one like never before or ever again. Again that period when the faithless Jews as fools, no God in their hard hearts. Those Jews became jealous of the surrounding nation Not desires . They were in used as a parable (hiding the unsen gospel understand ing from those who served another authority (Patriarchs) It all came to a end when Jesus said it is finished and the Father rent the 70 ft. veil from the top to the bottom to expose there was no Jewish flesh standing in the holy of holies place . we walk or understand by believing the unseen work of God.

Many from my experience disregard the importance of the reformation and what work it restored. as if it never did occur . it is the same carbon copy as a pattern as the 15 th. century reformation .

Men calling all things written in the law and prophets(sola scriptura) "heresy" so they could keep the oral tradition as a "law of the fathers" or "law of the Patriarchs"

The Holy anointing or teaching Spirit using the temporal things seen the signified, in parables as figures for that time present. (abomination of desolation)

The reformation made desolate the abomination of desolation .Men standing in the unseen holy place of the hidden glory of our living God came to a end.

Hebrew 9:8-11 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the "time of reformation". But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

For me the veil was torn at Jesus death meaning the way was no longer obstructed, to the Holy Place, because Jesus body was broken and His blood shed. We may enter the Holy Place and that represents the Way the the Father, by Jesus' sacred blood.

In Romans it says, the Jews are elect on account of the patriarchs and enemies because of Christ. At that time. They were powerful.

I don't believe John Chrysostom was a saint because of what I heard from his Againts the Jews.

 

[garee]

For me the veil was torn at Jesus death meaning the way was no longer obstructed, to the Holy Place, because Jesus body was broken and His blood shed. We may enter the Holy Place and that represents the Way the the Father, by Jesus' sacred blood.

In Romans it says, the Jews are elect on account of the patriarchs and enemies because of Christ. At that time. They were powerful.

I don't believe John Chrysostom was a saint because of what I heard from his Against the Jews.

I have not done much research on John Chrysostom's private interpretation. To me its easier to start with the word of God His interpretation, as it is written . this is seeing its His approval we are to seek after.

I agree it obstructed faith or believing but how? The veil represented the foreskin of the Son man, Jesus called our bloody husband because of circumcision .

The veil when rent fulfilled the requirement of ceremonial law the circumcision. The shadow became sight and made desolate the abomination . . Kings in Israel. men standing in the unseen place of faith (the unseen will of God0)which came about because of the faithless Jews jealousy of the surrounding pagan nation that also served a hierarchy of men . (men lording it over the non venerable )

When the veil was rent there was no man sitting in the holy of holies .At the same moment Satan fell not having the previous abiltlty to deceive all that nations that they must serve a outward Jew rather than God as King of kings and Lord. of lords . The government was restored to the order of Judges .When men did serve our unseen King by faith. .Not a kingdom that comes by observing the temporal things seen under the sun

I would agree that temporal time period used as a parable of Kings (venerable mankind) or a hierarchy of men...... it, the witness of men was obstructing the unseen work of our father in heaven.

I am not sure where you are quoting where Romans says, the Jews are elect on account of the patriarchs and enemies because of Christ.

How did you come to that? Which reference in Romans ? and what account of the patriarchs? What would they have to do with the work of the father that works in all his children by faith ?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I have not done much research on John Chrysostom's private interpretation. To me its easier to start with the word of God His interpretation, as it is written . this is seeing its His approval we are to seek after.

I agree it obstructed faith or believing but how? The veil represented the foreskin of the Son man, Jesus called our bloody husband because of circumcision .

The veil when rent fulfilled the requirement of ceremonial law the circumcision. The shadow became sight and made desolate the abomination . . Kings in Israel. men standing in the unseen place of faith (the unseen will of God0)which came about because of the faithless Jews jealousy of the surrounding pagan nation that also served a hierarchy of men . (men lording it over the non venerable )

When the veil was rent there was no man sitting in the holy of holies .At the same moment Satan fell not having the previous abiltlty to deceive all that nations that they must serve a outward Jew rather than God as King of kings and Lord. of lords . The government was restored to the order of Judges .When men did serve our unseen King by faith. .Not a kingdom that comes by observing the temporal things seen under the sun

I would agree that temporal time period used as a parable of Kings (venerable mankind) or a hierarchy of men...... it, the witness of men was obstructing the unseen work of our father in heaven.

I am not sure where you are quoting where Romans says, the Jews are elect on account of the patriarchs and enemies because of Christ.

How did you come to that? Which reference in Romans ? and what account of the patriarchs? What would they have to do with the work of the father that works in all his children by faith ?

Romans 11:28
"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs," NIV

 

[garee]

Romans 11:28
"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs," NIV

There seems to be a difference between the two. One like you offered using patriarchs. . Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and their forefathers, or the sons of Jacob. The other using for fathers sakes.

And Romans 11:28 King James As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes

Because no man can serve two teaching masters .(1) the word of God as it is written in the law and prophets and (2) the oral traditions of men as in, I heard it in the grape vine.

We must as lovingly commanded (2nd Timothy 2:15 ) study as His new Spirit works in us in order to seek the approval or the power needed to believe God not seen.

Both "loved on account of the patriarchs," and "beloved for the father's sakes" it must be researched two laws. (1) law of our unseen eternal God as unto our Holy one Father not seen or (2) law of man seen called a law of the fathers (I heard it through the grapevine oral traditions which produces a false zeal for knowing our unseen one Holy Father the Holy See.

Rather than worshiping or venerating the unseen God as their Holy Father they worship venerated men the fathers seen as if they were worshiping the one Holy Father in heaven. Turning things upside down inspired from earth seen and not heaven not seen

The law of the fathers the Pharisee sect a succession of corrupted flesh and blood natural unconverted mankind. They with the Sadaucesss two sects under the authority of a hierarchy of men that lord it over the faith of the non venerable together tried to prove that all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) was heresy so that they could keep their own kind of teaching master.. .I heard it through the grape vine oral traditions of sinful men.

Paul revealed to them that call sola scriptura heresy that by the word of God as it is written, again what they call heresy so he worships the God of the fathers and not the fathers as gods that some call patron saints. they would seem to be an extension to the law of the fathers .)Out of sight out of mind pagan foundation )

Acts 22:3-6 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

Acts 24:14-15 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

They walked away in unbelief .No faith in believing the father not seen They looked at the temporal not mixing faith the gospel showing us there hearts remined hard.

Each person must decide which teaching master they will hear and understand. we need no man to teach us .he warns us of that in 1 John 2 . as those who would seduce us to believe we do need mankind seen to be our teaching master. God is not a man as us.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Sola Scriptura is man made. The Spirit teaches scripture, often by explaining scripture with scripture. The Spirit is as unlimited now as in the life of Abraham. We say, the word alone and you shrivel up, the Spirit alone and you blow up, but the word and the Spirit and you grow up.

It is like water and seed. The Spirit brings to memory, things He has told you.

 

[garee]

Sola Scriptura is man made. The Spirit teaches scripture, often by explaining scripture with scripture. The Spirit is as unlimited now as in the life of Abraham. We say, the word alone and you shrivel up, the Spirit alone and you blow up, but the word and the Spirit and you grow up.

It is like water and seed. The Spirit brings to memory, things He has told you.

Sola Scriptura is the Spirit teaching scripture. Sola Scriptura is God breathed not man made. It has nothing to do with Abraham who was used as a old testament apostle.

It is like water and seed. The Spirit brings to memory, things He has told you.