The Logic Concerning Belief That Jesus Deserved to Die

[Aimee30]

I want to debate the fact that some believers believe Jesus's Crucifixion was just and that God gave Pontius Pilate the authority to do so.
The logia seems to be Jesus deserved to die because he broke his own country's religious laws and that God thought it was reasonable for him to die for doing so. This raises a big concern with issues of spirituality vs. authority. That would mean the disciples that were put to death because they broke the country's laws or rules which they were sent to preach to. So if it is God's will that they spread his message, why is it then God's will that they die at the hands of the country they are sent to spread the word to?
Anyway, this type of reasoning almost seems to say that Jesus is not God--i.e. why does God want to kill himself or a part of himself who was obeying his will because he was not submitting to the authorities that God willed to kill him? The fact of the matter is we usually believe Jesus died for our sins, not that he died because he disobeyed authority. So how is reasoning that Jesus died for disobedience when he was obeying God's will logical?

 

[SimplyMe]

I want to debate the fact that some believers believe Jesus's Crucifixion was just and that God gave Pontius Pilate the authority to do so.
The logia seems to be Jesus deserved to die because he broke his own country's religious laws and that God thought it was reasonable for him to die for doing so.

From my understanding of things based on the Bible, no, Jesus had not broken the laws of Judaism. There were several irregularities in how things were done with Jesus. First, the fact that they felt the need to arrest him at night. Second, the fact that they tried him overnight, illegal by the same laws they were accusing Christ of breaking. Third, even after calling all their witnesses is still came down to Christ simply saying (at least according to Luke), "Ye say that I am."

As for Pilate, it is obvious he found no reason to punish Jesus at all -- that he had committed no crime, Jewish or Roman -- the only reason he did order Christ executed was because of politics.

This raises a big concern with issues of spirituality vs. authority. That would mean the disciples that were put to death because they broke the country's laws or rules which they were sent to preach to. So if it is God's will that they spread his message, why is it then God's will that they die at the hands of the country they are sent to spread the word to?

I'm not aware of the apostles preaching the Gospel outside of the Roman empire, and preaching was not illegal as Rome had freedom of religion. Because of the speed at which Christianity was growing and because of the "strange" nature of Christianity (the Romans and Greeks were polytheistic at this time) it was feared, but more as a political group than as a religion. The excuse for killing Christians was political, and some of that was because of the passion of the converts to Christianity.

Anyway, this type of reasoning almost seems to say that Jesus is not God--i.e. why does God want to kill himself or a part of himself who was obeying his will because he was not submitting to the authorities that God willed to kill him? The fact of the matter is we usually believe Jesus died for our sins, not that he died because he disobeyed authority. So how is reasoning that Jesus died for disobedience when he was obeying God's will logical?

On this part, I simply believe the premise is wrong.

 

[tgg]

I want to debate the fact that some believers believe Jesus's Crucifixion was just and that God gave Pontius Pilate the authority to do so.
The logia seems to be Jesus deserved to die because he broke his own country's religious laws and that God thought it was reasonable for him to die for doing so. This raises a big concern with issues of spirituality vs. authority. That would mean the disciples that were put to death because they broke the country's laws or rules which they were sent to preach to. So if it is God's will that they spread his message, why is it then God's will that they die at the hands of the country they are sent to spread the word to?

This is ridiculous. Christ never broke any religious laws. He did however do things that really upset the authorities like heal on the sabbath, and allowed his disciples to walk through cornfields to have lunch.
Christ never advocated criminal behaviour or anarchy, but rather to obey the laws of the land.

Anyway, this type of r

easoning almost seems to say that Jesus is not God--i.e. why does God want to kill himself or a part of himself who was obeying his will because he was not submitting to the authorities that God willed to kill him? The fact of the matter is we usually believe Jesus died for our sins, not that he died because he disobeyed authority. So how is reasoning that Jesus died for disobedience when he was obeying God's will logical?

I do believe that Jesus died because he was seen as a political agitator, not to 'save' anyone. He was seen as a threat to authority because of the way he did things and socialised with the scumbags of the day.

So no, I don't believe he died because he was disobedient. One has only to read the story of Abraham loving the Lord enough to give up his son Isaac as a human sacrifice, until God came down and intervened and told him not to hurt the boy as he had seen how obedient Abraham was.



tgg

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I want to debate the fact that some believers believe Jesus's Crucifixion was just and that God gave Pontius Pilate the authority to do so.
The logia seems to be Jesus deserved to die because he broke his own country's religious laws and that God thought it was reasonable for him to die for doing so. This raises a big concern with issues of spirituality vs. authority. That would mean the disciples that were put to death because they broke the country's laws or rules which they were sent to preach to. So if it is God's will that they spread his message, why is it then God's will that they die at the hands of the country they are sent to spread the word to?
Anyway, this type of reasoning almost seems to say that Jesus is not God--i.e. why does God want to kill himself or a part of himself who was obeying his will because he was not submitting to the authorities that God willed to kill him? The fact of the matter is we usually believe Jesus died for our sins, not that he died because he disobeyed authority. So how is reasoning that Jesus died for disobedience when he was obeying God's will logical?

It sounds like to me you are having a crises of faith in dealing with the arrest and crucifixion of our Savior. Obvioulsy, Jesus did not break any laws. Yes, he did break the Sabbath,and he did allow his disciples to walk through wheatfields, but so did David. Also, Jesus says in Matthew 5:17-78:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least strok of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

[billwald]

We have an incomplete trial transcript so no basis to make any conclusion. <G>

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I want to debate the fact that some believers believe Jesus's Crucifixion was just and that God gave Pontius Pilate the authority to do so.
The logia seems to be Jesus deserved to die because he broke his own country's religious laws and that God thought it was reasonable for him to die for doing so. This raises a big concern with issues of spirituality vs. authority. That would mean the disciples that were put to death because they broke the country's laws or rules which they were sent to preach to. So if it is God's will that they spread his message, why is it then God's will that they die at the hands of the country they are sent to spread the word to?
Anyway, this type of reasoning almost seems to say that Jesus is not God--i.e. why does God want to kill himself or a part of himself who was obeying his will because he was not submitting to the authorities that God willed to kill him? The fact of the matter is we usually believe Jesus died for our sins, not that he died because he disobeyed authority. So how is reasoning that Jesus died for disobedience when he was obeying God's will logical?

The Jewish authorities did not have the authority to sentence anyone to death, and religious laws would not carry any weight with the Romans. Hence, the charge had to be changed from blasphemy to treason by saying that jesus called Himself the King of the Jews.

 

[Madcoil]

All hail the no life king.