The "little horn" of Dan 7 and Dan 8 ...

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Does anyone have an answer or explanation for the difference between where the "little horn" originates from in Dan. 7 where it comes up from among the ten horns of the nondescript beast said to be Rome, compared with Dan. 8 where it comes up from among the four horns of the goat said to be Greece, other than the theory that in Dan. 8, it is better interpreted as coming from the "4 winds" due to agreement of gender in Hebrew? Thanks.
 

BobRyan

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Does anyone have an answer or explanation for the difference between where the "little horn" originates from in Dan. 7 where it comes up from among the ten horns of the nondescript beast said to be Rome, compared with Dan. 8 where it comes up from among the four horns of the goat said to be Greece, other than the theory that in Dan. 8, it is better interpreted as coming from the "4 winds" due to agreement of gender in Hebrew? Thanks.

Languages like Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Italian and Spanish are languages where nouns and pronouns have have gender. It is almost impossible to argue that understanding of the language be had while ignoring that particular "genders-must-match" rule where noun genders must match with their respective pronoun.

Even in English we do no allow "Bob said that she was going to town" is a statement that Bob makes about some other person - a woman ... going to town.

But "Bob said he is going to town" is probably a statement about what he is going to do -- not about what some woman is going to do.

You seem to be asking that we render the meaning of the text while ignoring the rule for the language in which the text is written.

Or are you asking for other "details" that also make the same point and give more information?

It comes up from among the nations of the pagan Roman empire in Daniel 7. All 10 horns arise from division/split of the Pagan Roman empire that followed the empire of Greece (the leopard in Daniel 7).

Pagan Rome splits into ten main division and 3 of those divisions do not survive - and it is from withing that group that an 11th horn comes up according to Daniel 7 - that overtakes them all. Surpasses the domain of the entire pagan Roman system.
 
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He Calls Me Friend

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Languages like Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Italian and Spanish are languages where nouns and pronouns have have gender. It is almost impossible to argue that understanding of the language be had while ignoring that particular "genders-must-match" rule where noun genders must match with their respective pronoun.

Even in English we do no allow "Bob said that she was going to town" is a statement that Bob makes about some other person - a woman ... going to town.

But "Bob said he is going to town" is probably a statement about what he is going to do -- not about what some woman is going to do.

You seem to be asking that we render the meaning of the text while ignoring the rule for the language in which the text is written.

Or are you asking for other "details" that also make the same point and give more information?

It comes up from among the nations of the pagan Roman empire in Daniel 7. All 10 horns arise from division/split of the Pagan Roman empire that followed the empire of Greece (the leopard in Daniel 7).

Pagan Rome splits into ten main division and 3 of those divisions do not survive - and it is from withing that group that an 11th horn comes up according to Daniel 7 - that overtakes them all. Surpasses the domain of the entire pagan Roman system.

I agree that the "little horn" does come up, as you say, from within the surviving 7 horns ... according to Daniel 7. But in Daniel 8, the "little horn" is said to come up from among the 4 horns of the goat, which I've been given to understand is equivalent to the leopard with four heads in Daniel 7, identified as Greece. Rome, as a "beast" is not even mentioned in Daniel 8. SDAs claim that:

“four” is feminine in form both referring to horns and referring to winds

“winds” is usually feminine, but can be masculine when it's plural (“winds”)

“them” is always masculine

“one” is feminine in form

(explained in SDA Bible Commentary Vol 4 pp 840-841)


According to Walter Shea:
The actual rendering of the Greek which is translated “out of one of them” is actually “from one from them” and when he lines up “to the four winds of the heavens (last phrase of verse 8) with the opening prepositional phrase in the Greek rendering of verse 9, namely “from one from them”, the gender of the two elements from the beginning of verse 9 line up perfectly with the gender of the last two elements at the end of verse 8:

“to the four (fem) winds (fem) of the heavens (mas)”

“from one (fem) from them (mas)”


Here's my concerns:
If this is true, then why hasn't even one Bible translation that I'm aware of ever picked up on that and translated it to reveal the above rendering, i.e. that the "little horn" in Dan 8 came from one of the directions of the compass ("four winds"), as SDAs believe, and represented both pagan and papal Rome. Therefore, I'm asking if anyone has found a different explanation for why in Dan. 7 the "little horn" plainly comes up from among the "horns" of Rome, while in Dan. 8 it comes up among the "four horns" of Greece.

Thanks.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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This is really interesting to me as although I've read Dan 8 many times, I did not see the referenced to the little horn before coming up from the four generals of Alexander. Although if you look in Revelation, the beast power is depicted as having attributes of the leopard like beast. Great thread! Maybe should have been in the Traditional Adventist forum for better response but regardless, great Biblical challenge.
 
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He Calls Me Friend

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This is really interesting to me as although I've read Dan 8 many times, I did not see the referenced to the little horn before coming up from the four generals of Alexander. Although if you look in Revelation, the beast power is depicted as having attributes of the leopard like beast. Great thread! Maybe should have been in the Traditional Adventist forum for better response but regardless, great Biblical challenge.
Thanks for your response. I had the same reaction ... I'd read Dan. 8 many times, too, and never saw it until just recently. I will take your advice and repost it in Traditional Adventists ... although I'm thinking I may just get the same "traditional" Adventist answer! :~)
 
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Jerryhuerta

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I agree that the "little horn" does come up, as you say, from within the surviving 7 horns ... according to Daniel 7. But in Daniel 8, the "little horn" is said to come up from among the 4 horns of the goat, which I've been given to understand is equivalent to the leopard with four heads in Daniel 7, identified as Greece. Rome, as a "beast" is not even mentioned in Daniel 8. SDAs claim that:

“four” is feminine in form both referring to horns and referring to winds

“winds” is usually feminine, but can be masculine when it's plural (“winds”)

“them” is always masculine

“one” is feminine in form

(explained in SDA Bible Commentary Vol 4 pp 840-841)


According to Walter Shea:
The actual rendering of the Greek which is translated “out of one of them” is actually “from one from them” and when he lines up “to the four winds of the heavens (last phrase of verse 8) with the opening prepositional phrase in the Greek rendering of verse 9, namely “from one from them”, the gender of the two elements from the beginning of verse 9 line up perfectly with the gender of the last two elements at the end of verse 8:

“to the four (fem) winds (fem) of the heavens (mas)”

“from one (fem) from them (mas)”


Here's my concerns:
If this is true, then why hasn't even one Bible translation that I'm aware of ever picked up on that and translated it to reveal the above rendering, i.e. that the "little horn" in Dan 8 came from one of the directions of the compass ("four winds"), as SDAs believe, and represented both pagan and papal Rome. Therefore, I'm asking if anyone has found a different explanation for why in Dan. 7 the "little horn" plainly comes up from among the "horns" of Rome, while in Dan. 8 it comes up among the "four horns" of Greece.

Thanks.
Does anyone have an answer or explanation for the difference between where the "little horn" originates from in Dan. 7 where it comes up from among the ten horns of the nondescript beast said to be Rome, compared with Dan. 8 where it comes up from among the four horns of the goat said to be Greece, other than the theory that in Dan. 8, it is better interpreted as coming from the "4 winds" due to agreement of gender in Hebrew? Thanks.

Good question. I must conclude the answer is in the nature of recapitulation; recapitulation reveals greater detail as it progresses. The bipartite identity of the little horn is emphasized in Dan 8 in that both pagan and papal Rome “magnify” themselves to the “prince of the host” and by them “the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down” (Dan 8:11). In a sense pagan Rome magnified itself against Christ and executed him at behest of the those who rejected the cornerstone, but the popes also magnified themselves against Christ later and after pagan Rome had given them their “power, seat and great authority” (Rev 13:2). The greater emphasis in chapter 8 grants us the guidelines to determine “when” the fourth beast in Dan 7 comes in contact with the holy people of God and “cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them” (Dan 8:10).

From the revelation we can garner that the “little horn” must be perceived in a bipartite approach, which is where the historicists have faltered concerning the “cleansing of the sanctuary” in the same chapter. The “cleansing of the sanctuary” cannot be properly interpreted without the same bipartite approach, in that judgement, which is emphasized in chapter 7, consisted of both Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur (Festival of the Trumpets and the Day of Atonement). The holy people, in the context, did not look upon the judgment in Daniel 7 merely as the Yom Kippur, but also incorporated Rosh Hashanah in the perception, which the Adventist, as well as historicists in general, have overlooked. The “daily” or Tamid dealt with the individual’s sins, while the yearly or Yoma dealt with the corporate condition of the congregation to separate those who are truly Christ’s from those who are not, which is clearly just prior to the second advent. In overlooking the grammatical-historical hermeneutic they have come up with misperceptions as the IJ, which has no basis in scripture as Christ blotted out all sin once and for all at the first advent.

“Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” Heb 10:9-10

By taking the bipartite perception of the “cleansing of the sanctuary” the true nature of judgment is revealed, which is conveyed specifically in Joel and Amos.
 
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Tim Ray

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Does anyone have an answer or explanation for the difference between where the "little horn" originates from in Dan. 7 where it comes up from among the ten horns of the nondescript beast said to be Rome, compared with Dan. 8 where it comes up from among the four horns of the goat said to be Greece, other than the theory that in Dan. 8, it is better interpreted as coming from the "4 winds" due to agreement of gender in Hebrew? Thanks.
 
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Tim Ray

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Happened across your post over two yrs. ago. So if your still active on this forum I hope these insights will be helpful.

Section VI – The Horn Power in Daniel 8 Cannot be the Papacy
The Time of Wrath

The Reformation Christians believed the horn power of Daniel 8 represented the papacy and some Christians today believe the same thing. Let us briefly examine this view. Gabriel told Daniel, ". . . I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end." (Daniel 8:19) Since the ram and goat represent ancient empires, this leaves the horn power as the only element in this vision that can appear at "the appointed time of the end." This vision includes a prophetic span of 2,300 evenings and mornings, so the appointed time of the end has to occur after 1844! In other words, the horn power described in Daniel 8 does not appear prior to 1844. This simple fact eliminates the Roman Catholic Church as a possible candidate for the horn power of Daniel 8 because the Roman Catholic Church achieved absolute power in A.D. 538. The little horn of Daniel 7 and the horn power of Daniel 8 cannot be the same entity for the following reasons:
  1. The little horn of Daniel 7 rises out of the Roman empire. The horn power of Daniel 8does not derive its strength from Rome or any nation. The horn power in Daniel 8 is a power unto itself. It appears out of one of the four winds, specifically, the north.
  2. The little horn of Daniel 7 arises in A.D. 538 after the ten horns have broken the Roman empire. The horn power of Daniel 8 has to appear after 1844 because it appears during the appointed time of the end.
  3. The little horn of Daniel 7 represents a diverse or different type of kingdom (Daniel 7:8) that wars against the saints for a very long time (1,260 years). The little horn in Daniel 7was unlike the remaining seven horns in that it had eyes and a mouth. The horn power of Daniel 8 represents a man, a stern-faced king who will take "the daily" away from Jesus during the appointed time of the end. As we will see, taking the daily away from Jesus is something that no ordinary mortal can do, not even a pope!
  4. Daniel 7 predicts the papacy will recover from its wound and speak boastfully against the Most High. Revelation 13:1-5 confirms the deadly wound will be healed at the time of the end, but Daniel 8 reveals that the Antichrist will destroy the authority of the papacy by casting all religions to the ground and trampling on them. The Antichrist "will exalt himself over everything that is called God" by means of the miracles he has power to do. (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 13:14) The Antichrist will abolish all religious systems, including the papacy, to establish his global religion. The stern-faced king in Daniel 8 will lead the world to war against the King of kings, and the prince of darkness will take his stand against the Prince of Heaven’s hosts (Jesus, King of kings) at the Second Coming.
  5. The horn power in Daniel 8 cannot be destroyed by human power. This feature stands in contrast to the fact that the little horn in Daniel 7 is subject to mortality. The papacy was almost destroyed by the sword (war) in 1798.
  6. Daniel 11:36-12:3 contributes several important points to the apocalyptic matrix. Even though we have not studied Daniel 10-12, this prophecy amplifies the works and activities of the horn power in Daniel 8. The king of the north in Daniel 11:36 and the stern-faced king that comes out of the north in Daniel 8 are the same entity. The papacy cannot meet all of the specifications that go with the horn power of Daniel 8. A study of Revelation 9 and Revelation 13:11-18, will show the Antichrist, the physical appearing of Lucifer with millions of his angels, to be the only solution that satisfies all of the specifications for this power in the books of Daniel and Revelation.
Section VII – The Termination of the Daily
The Antichrist Will Take the Daily Away from Jesus

The wording of Daniel 8:13 is difficult to understand at first: "Then I heard a holy one [angel]speaking, and another holy one [angel] said to him, ‘How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled – the vision concerning the [cessation of the] daily sacrifice, the [vision concerning a great]rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host [of saints]that will be trampled underfoot?’ " (Insertions mine) To help you understand this question better, here is a paraphrase of Daniel 8:13: "Daniel heard one angel speak to another angel. The first angel said, ‘How long will it take for this vision of the ram, the goat, and the horn power to be fulfilled?" When the question is phrased this way, the answer that follows makes sense. Daniel writes, "And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai [canal] calling, ‘Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.’ As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. ‘Son of man,’ he said to me, ‘understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.’ " (Daniel 8:16,17, insertion and italics mine) It is clear that the question in verse 13 is finally answered in verses 16 and 17. You may wonder why the actual question in verse 13 is worded in such a complex way. God is both deliberate and purposeful in everything He does. With one question and one answer God informs us that the appointed time of the end involves four great issues:

1. The termination of the daily

2. A rebellion that causes desolation

3. The surrender of Heaven’s sanctuary

4. God’s people will be trampled underfoot

We have examined Daniel 8:11 within the context of Antiochus IV. Let us examine it again, this time within the context of the Antichrist and the appointed time of the end. This approach will yield a much better fulfillment of Scripture. Gabriel said, "It [the horn power will] set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host [Jesus]; it took away the daily sacrifice from him [Jesus], and the place of his [Jesus’] sanctuary was brought low." (Daniel 8:11, insertions mine) The word "daily" is a term that describes the daily cycle of services that occurred in the earthly temple. Every day, evening and morning, a lamb was slain on the Altar of Burnt Offering and its blood was sprinkled on the Altar of Incense. Every day, sinners presented their sacrifices at the Altar of Burnt Offering. These rituals, and many other services became known as the "daily" or the "continual." They shadowed the intercession that Jesus began making on behalf of humanity the day sin occurred as well as His death on Calvary. The immediate intercession of Jesus spared Adam and Eve from sudden death the day they sinned. (Genesis 2:17) The Father allowed Adam and Eve (and their offspring) to live because of Christ’s intercession on their behalf. (Genesis 2:17; Hebrews 7:25) Gabriel indicates the coming Antichrist will take away Jesus’ daily intercession in Heaven’s temple. Christ’s intercession for man is terminated in one of four ways. Notice how two ways concern the individual and two ways concern corporate bodies of people:
  1. When a person dies, life terminates. The dead know nothing. There is no need for further intercession. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6)
  2. If a person commits the unpardonable sin, intercession for that person ends because there is nothing more that God can do to bring a person to repentance. There is no forgiveness for the unpardonable sin. (Hebrews 10:26, Matthew 12:31,32)
  3. When a decadent nation exhausts the limits of God’s patience, corporate intercession ends and that nation is destroyed. (Genesis 15:16; Leviticus 4:13,14; 18:24-28; Jeremiah 25)
  4. When God’s patience with the decadence of the world reaches its limit, He sends destruction. (Genesis 6; Matthew 24:37)

Continued:
 
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Tim Ray

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Happened across your post over two yrs. ago. So if your still active on this forum I hope these insights will be helpful.

Section VI – The Horn Power in Daniel 8 Cannot be the Papacy
The Time of Wrath

The Reformation Christians believed the horn power of Daniel 8 represented the papacy and some Christians today believe the same thing. Let us briefly examine this view. Gabriel told Daniel, ". . . I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end." (Daniel 8:19) Since the ram and goat represent ancient empires, this leaves the horn power as the only element in this vision that can appear at "the appointed time of the end." This vision includes a prophetic span of 2,300 evenings and mornings, so the appointed time of the end has to occur after 1844! In other words, the horn power described in Daniel 8 does not appear prior to 1844. This simple fact eliminates the Roman Catholic Church as a possible candidate for the horn power of Daniel 8 because the Roman Catholic Church achieved absolute power in A.D. 538. The little horn of Daniel 7 and the horn power of Daniel 8 cannot be the same entity for the following reasons:
  1. The little horn of Daniel 7 rises out of the Roman empire. The horn power of Daniel 8does not derive its strength from Rome or any nation. The horn power in Daniel 8 is a power unto itself. It appears out of one of the four winds, specifically, the north.
  2. The little horn of Daniel 7 arises in A.D. 538 after the ten horns have broken the Roman empire. The horn power of Daniel 8 has to appear after 1844 because it appears during the appointed time of the end.
  3. The little horn of Daniel 7 represents a diverse or different type of kingdom (Daniel 7:8) that wars against the saints for a very long time (1,260 years). The little horn in Daniel 7was unlike the remaining seven horns in that it had eyes and a mouth. The horn power of Daniel 8 represents a man, a stern-faced king who will take "the daily" away from Jesus during the appointed time of the end. As we will see, taking the daily away from Jesus is something that no ordinary mortal can do, not even a pope!
  4. Daniel 7 predicts the papacy will recover from its wound and speak boastfully against the Most High. Revelation 13:1-5 confirms the deadly wound will be healed at the time of the end, but Daniel 8 reveals that the Antichrist will destroy the authority of the papacy by casting all religions to the ground and trampling on them. The Antichrist "will exalt himself over everything that is called God" by means of the miracles he has power to do. (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 13:14) The Antichrist will abolish all religious systems, including the papacy, to establish his global religion. The stern-faced king in Daniel 8 will lead the world to war against the King of kings, and the prince of darkness will take his stand against the Prince of Heaven’s hosts (Jesus, King of kings) at the Second Coming.
  5. The horn power in Daniel 8 cannot be destroyed by human power. This feature stands in contrast to the fact that the little horn in Daniel 7 is subject to mortality. The papacy was almost destroyed by the sword (war) in 1798.
  6. Daniel 11:36-12:3 contributes several important points to the apocalyptic matrix. Even though we have not studied Daniel 10-12, this prophecy amplifies the works and activities of the horn power in Daniel 8. The king of the north in Daniel 11:36 and the stern-faced king that comes out of the north in Daniel 8 are the same entity. The papacy cannot meet all of the specifications that go with the horn power of Daniel 8. A study of Revelation 9 and Revelation 13:11-18, will show the Antichrist, the physical appearing of Lucifer with millions of his angels, to be the only solution that satisfies all of the specifications for this power in the books of Daniel and Revelation.
Section VII – The Termination of the Daily
The Antichrist Will Take the Daily Away from Jesus

The wording of Daniel 8:13 is difficult to understand at first: "Then I heard a holy one [angel]speaking, and another holy one [angel] said to him, ‘How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled – the vision concerning the [cessation of the] daily sacrifice, the [vision concerning a great]rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host [of saints]that will be trampled underfoot?’ " (Insertions mine) To help you understand this question better, here is a paraphrase of Daniel 8:13: "Daniel heard one angel speak to another angel. The first angel said, ‘How long will it take for this vision of the ram, the goat, and the horn power to be fulfilled?" When the question is phrased this way, the answer that follows makes sense. Daniel writes, "And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai [canal] calling, ‘Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.’ As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. ‘Son of man,’ he said to me, ‘understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.’ " (Daniel 8:16,17, insertion and italics mine) It is clear that the question in verse 13 is finally answered in verses 16 and 17. You may wonder why the actual question in verse 13 is worded in such a complex way. God is both deliberate and purposeful in everything He does. With one question and one answer God informs us that the appointed time of the end involves four great issues:

1. The termination of the daily

2. A rebellion that causes desolation

3. The surrender of Heaven’s sanctuary

4. God’s people will be trampled underfoot

We have examined Daniel 8:11 within the context of Antiochus IV. Let us examine it again, this time within the context of the Antichrist and the appointed time of the end. This approach will yield a much better fulfillment of Scripture. Gabriel said, "It [the horn power will] set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host [Jesus]; it took away the daily sacrifice from him [Jesus], and the place of his [Jesus’] sanctuary was brought low." (Daniel 8:11, insertions mine) The word "daily" is a term that describes the daily cycle of services that occurred in the earthly temple. Every day, evening and morning, a lamb was slain on the Altar of Burnt Offering and its blood was sprinkled on the Altar of Incense. Every day, sinners presented their sacrifices at the Altar of Burnt Offering. These rituals, and many other services became known as the "daily" or the "continual." They shadowed the intercession that Jesus began making on behalf of humanity the day sin occurred as well as His death on Calvary. The immediate intercession of Jesus spared Adam and Eve from sudden death the day they sinned. (Genesis 2:17) The Father allowed Adam and Eve (and their offspring) to live because of Christ’s intercession on their behalf. (Genesis 2:17; Hebrews 7:25) Gabriel indicates the coming Antichrist will take away Jesus’ daily intercession in Heaven’s temple. Christ’s intercession for man is terminated in one of four ways. Notice how two ways concern the individual and two ways concern corporate bodies of people:
  1. When a person dies, life terminates. The dead know nothing. There is no need for further intercession. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6)
  2. If a person commits the unpardonable sin, intercession for that person ends because there is nothing more that God can do to bring a person to repentance. There is no forgiveness for the unpardonable sin. (Hebrews 10:26, Matthew 12:31,32)
  3. When a decadent nation exhausts the limits of God’s patience, corporate intercession ends and that nation is destroyed. (Genesis 15:16; Leviticus 4:13,14; 18:24-28; Jeremiah 25)
  4. When God’s patience with the decadence of the world reaches its limit, He sends destruction. (Genesis 6; Matthew 24:37)
Part 2 to follow
 
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Corporate and Personal Intercession Ends
You may wonder how the Antichrist can take away the daily intercession from Jesus during the appointed time of the end. The termination of the daily happens twice because daily services in Heaven’s temple involves atonement at two altars. The corporate altar is called the Altar of Incense and its services will be concluded first. (Daniel 12:11; Revelation 8:2-5) The individual altar is called the Altar of Burnt Offering and its services will be terminated at the seventh trumpet. (Daniel 8:11-13; Revelation 11:15-19). The corporate daily ends when the majority of the world stands in rebellion against the authority of God. As it was in the days of Noah; God’s patience will come to an end. We know His patience can come to an end with a city of people (e.g., Sodom and Gomorrah) or with the whole world as it did in Noah’s day. When this happens, He sends a series of judgments to destroy those who have exhausted His grace. (Genesis 6; Revelation 7:1-4 and 8:2-13) On the individual level, the termination of the daily is similar: When the devil leads a person to finally commit the unpardonable sin (persistently rejecting the demands of the Holy Spirit) God’s patience with that person comes to an end and God turns that person over to be subject to the devil. (Matthew 12:31,32; Hebrews 10:26) When a person, a nation, or the whole world refuses to surrender to the clearest evidences of God’s will, Jesus will no longer offer intercession for them. Why should He? For this reason, Jesus’ corporate intercession for Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, and Rome ended and the kingdoms fell. (See Daniel 5.)

We see a parallel on the individual level as well. During the Great Tribulation, God will empower His servants, the 144,000, to proclaim the terms and conditions of salvation to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. The Antichrist will lead the wicked of Earth into committing the unpardonable sin. He will lead them to rebel against the authority of God and despise the generous offer of salvation from Jesus. (2 Thessalonians 2:11,12; Romans 1:18-32; Hebrews 10:29) Thus, the daily intercession of Jesus on behalf of the world and individuals will be taken away.

Some people will not voluntarily go along with the devil’s schemes. God knows this and He empowers the Antichrist to bring an end to Christ’s intercession by forcing people to make a hard choice. There will be no middle ground. The devil will require worship (obedience) and all who refuse to submit to his assumed authority are to be killed. (Revelation 13:15) The "salvation" which the Antichrist offers will be the temporal privilege of obtaining the necessities of life during the final days of the Great Tribulation. In other words, if a person chooses to join forces with the devil and receive the mark of the beast, that person will be able to buy and sell so that he can survive. If a person refuses the mark of the beast, that person will be shut off from all earthly means of survival to starve or be killed. When every decision for or against salvation has been made, the daily intercession of Jesus ends.

Gabriel also said, ". . . and the place of his [Jesus’] sanctuary was brought low." The exalted ministry of man’s Savior in Heaven’s temple will become a matter of mockery (brought low through contempt). During the Great Tribulation, a majority of people will be convinced the devil is God! (2 Thessalonians 2) In other words, the unseen ministry and temple of Jesus in Heaven will not be able to compete with the dazzling show of miracles which the Antichrist conducts. However, the heavenly temple will be physically displayed to everyone living on Earth after the daily has ended. (Revelation 11:19)

Rebellion Will Overtake the World
Consider this next verse: "Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it [the Antichrist]. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground." (Daniel 8:12) This verse aligns with many details in Revelation. The following is a short scenario of this verse:

When the Great Tribulation begins, the Holy Spirit will be poured out on all nations and people. The purpose of the Spirit’s influence is to pry open every heart to receive the gospel message that God’s servants, the 144,000, will present. Jesus will send the Holy Spirit for one purpose, to save as many people as possible. Sadly, billions of people will refuse to submit to the demands of the Holy Spirit, and they will choose rebellion (lawlessness) against God. When the advance of the gospel stalls, God allows "the stern-face king," the destroyer, to physically appear. The mission of the Antichrist is to deceive and destroy. As the devil’s popularity grows (it starts out small), the wicked people of Earth will be divided into two camps. One camp will be the "religious wicked" and the other camp will consist of wicked people who want nothing to do with the devil. They just want him to go away and leave them alone. The "religious wicked" will be people like the Pharisees in Christ’s day who stubbornly hang on to false religion. These people would rather believe that Lucifer is God than to submit to the authority of Jesus Christ. These people appear to be religious, but they do not love truth. They do not even love God. These are people who chase miraculous signs instead of searching for truth. The other camp, the "non-religious wicked," consists of people like Hitler and Stalin who have no use for God and they detest Lucifer’s heavy handed ways. They will not accept the authority and dominion of the Antichrist. The "non-religious wicked" are represented in Daniel 11:36-12:3 as the kingdom of the South. In other words, the kingdom of the South is poles apart from the kingdom of the North. The Antichrist will use their rebellion against his authority to justify their destruction. Of course, the devil will destroy many saints for the same reason. The war described in the sixth trumpet (Revelation 9) is conducted to establish Lucifer’s undisputed dominion over Earth. (Revelation 9:13-21) Revelation says the devil and his angels will kill one-third of mankind (the non-religious wicked). When he has gained control of Earth, the devil will divide up the spoils of Earth and he will appoint ten kings to rule over ten sectors. His puppet kings will control Earth. The surviving saints will run for their lives and hide in the desolate places of Earth. God will feed and sustain them just as He did Elijah. (1 Kings 17:6) With this setting in mind, consider Daniel’s words again. I have inserted phrases that complete the ideas already presented: "[At the time of the end] It [the horn power, the Antichrist will] set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host [Jesus]; it took away the [need for the] daily sacrifice from him, and the [exalted purpose or] place of his [intercession for sinners in Heaven’s] sanctuary was brought low [ridiculed]. Because of [extensive] rebellion, the host of the saints [*were defeated] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it [brought to an end]. It [the Antichrist] prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground [because truth was despised]." (Daniel 8:11,12, insertions mine.)

Arrogance and Blasphemy
"He [the Antichrist] will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior [above the gods of all religions]. When they [his followers] feel secure [in his lies], he will destroy many [the non-religious-wicked] and take his stand against the Prince of princes [Jesus]. Yet he will be destroyed [by the sword that comes out of the mouth of Jesus], but not by human power." (Daniel 8:25, insertions mine ) The following specification about the horn power cannot be overlooked: "The king [of the North] will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been [pre-]determined must take place. . . . He [the Antichrist] will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him." (Daniel 11:36,45)

Four elements stand out in these verses.
  1. Jesus Himself destroys the horn power in Daniel 8. (Daniel 8:25; 2 Thessalonians 2:8)
  2. The horn power of Daniel 8 will lead the whole world into a great deception. (Daniel 8:25; Revelation 13:14)
  3. The horn power of Daniel 8 will exalt himself above all of the gods that people worship. (Daniel 8:25, 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)
  4. The Antichrist will pitch his royal tents "between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain."
Daniel indicates the devil will establish a throne in Jerusalem. What better way to stop the controversies between Christians, Arabs and Jews? The term "holy mountain" is used several times in the Old Testament as a reference to Jerusalem (the city of God, Mount Zion, Mount Moriah, etc.). It is well known that Jews, Muslims and Christians have roots in this ancient city. Perhaps the best reason for interpreting this specification just as it reads is that at the end, two kings will take their stand against each other. The stern-faced king of Daniel 8 establishes his kingdom and rules from ancient Jerusalem. The King of kings, however, will rule from His city, New Jerusalem. This is good news! The stern-faced king will come to his end and no one among the wicked will be left to help him!

Gabriel’s Final Words
"The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future." (Daniel 8:26) With these words, Gabriel left Daniel. It is interesting that Gabriel gave this vision a title. While the prophetic sequence concerns a ram, a goat, the appointed time of the end and a stern-faced king, Gabriel called it "The vision of the [2,300] evenings and mornings." Evidently, Gabriel used this title to highlight the critical element within this vision. The most important element in Daniel 8 is the daily services in Heaven’s temple. The daily intercession of Jesus is the only thing that protects mankind from God’s wrath and the wrath of the destroyer! Even the words, 2,300 evenings and mornings reflects the time of day when daily temple services were conducted. The date for cleansing Heaven’s temple was given in temple language! The bottom line in Daniel 8 is that a time is coming when the stern-faced king (the Antichrist) will cause Jesus’ daily intercession to cease. This is the worst possible thing that can happen to Earth’s inhabitants, because when Jesus terminates His intercession on behalf of sinners, the seven bowls of God’s wrath will be poured out without mercy. (Revelation 15 and 16)

Daniel was deeply distressed and very disturbed after seeing this vision. He did not understand what he had seen, but he did recognize enough to know the world would continue to spiral downward until Lucifer himself would be released upon humanity. The thought of this must have made him sick. Daniel writes, " I, Daniel, was exhausted and lay ill for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding." (Daniel 8:27)
Source: L. Wilson, study on Daniel eight.
 
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BobRyan

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I agree that the "little horn" does come up, as you say, from within the surviving 7 horns ... according to Daniel 7.

I did not say it comes up from the surviving 7 - it comes up as an 11th horn that then destroys 3 of the 10 through its influence.

But in Daniel 8, the "little horn" is said to come up from among the 4 horns of the goat, which I've been given to understand is equivalent to the leopard with four heads in Daniel 7, identified as Greece. Rome, as a "beast" is not even mentioned in Daniel 8.


SDAs claim that:

“four” is feminine in form both referring to horns and referring to winds
“winds” is usually feminine,
but can be masculine when it's plural (“winds”)
“them” is always masculine
“one” is feminine in form
(explained in SDA Bible Commentary Vol 4 pp 840-841)

According to Walter Shea:
The actual rendering of the Greek which is translated “out of one of them” is actually “from one from them” and when he lines up “to the four winds of the heavens (last phrase of verse 8) with the opening prepositional phrase in the Greek rendering of verse 9, namely “from one from them”, the gender of the two elements from the beginning of verse 9 line up perfectly with the gender of the last two elements at the end of verse 8:

“to the four (fem) winds (fem) of the heavens (mas)”

“from one (fem) from them (mas)”

Here's my concerns:
If this is true, then why hasn't even one Bible translation that I'm aware of ever picked up on that and translated it to reveal the above rendering, i.e. that the "little horn" in Dan 8 came from one of the directions of the compass ("four winds"), as SDAs believe, and represented both pagan and papal Rome.

I could say "Because it does not fit their narrative" However the truth is you don't normally find any Bible translation telling you in the translated text what the antecedent to the pronoun is for "them". So I am not sure what you mean when you ask for a translation doing that. Are you talking about 'inserts' in the margins?

What Bible translation puts the comma in Luke 16 in the right place?
 
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