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The Letter Kills ~ Instantly

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by AubreyM, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Hello you and have you ever came across this scripture?

    2 Corinthians 3:6 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.​

    What does the word of God, kill?

    Why does the letter killeth?

    What is the letter killing?

    Why would the letter kill the spirit if that is the probably effect?

    Have you ever noticed this verse in the text, now in Hebrews 4:12 it talks about how the bible (letter) word of God, is sharper than the sharpest two-edge sword.

    Why?

    Why is it that the word of God can be used, as though a an medieval solider equipped with a sword which is drawn to the neck of his enemy ready to slice the neck at any given moment?

    Mishandled understanding?

    Lost in translation, and teachings from others who believe they know but do not know truly what the word of God is saying?

    Why does the spirit give life?

    How come the spirit is the only way to gain life?

    How do you live by the spirit?

    Who gives the spirit?

    Why do we even need the spirit?

    Does the spirit transform us?

    Does anyone have any answers to these questions!?
     
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  2. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    the letter of the law (Gods word being His law) kills because we measure it ...
     
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  3. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    Paul is comparing the Law, written on stone and given to Moses, to the new covenant of Christ, written on the hearts of men by the Holy Spirit.

    Hebrews 4:12 Does NOT refer to the Bible
    Ζῶν γὰρ ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ἐνεργὴς καὶ τομώτερος ὑπὲρ πᾶσαν μάχαιραν δίστομον καὶ διϊκνούμενος ἄχρι μερισμοῦ ψυχῆς

    LOGOS of God, which is the same word used in the opening of the Gospel of John.

    The church father, St. John Chrysostom wrote
    “For the Word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and pierceth even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” In these words he shows that He, the Word of God, wrought the former things also, and lives, and has not been quenched.​
     
  4. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    "The letter killeth" means that the law of God shows people that they are sinners in need of a Savior. If a person doesn't have hope in Christ (that is, the Spirit giving life), then the law "kills" a person's hope of being righteous in God's sight. So, in a sense, "kills" is a figure of speech. But if you want to understand more of Paul's thought on the matter, read the context of Rom. 7, especially v. 9.

    We all must be born of the Spirit if we want to live forever - John 3.

    Live by faith that the Holy Spirit works God's will in your life, while you pay much attention to Jesus' words in the gospels.

    God alone does that work. Jesus said "how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask"

    You won't understand or believe the gospel of Christ without the help of the Spirit.

    Yes, and He does it mainly through our knowledge of God's word. Rom. 12:1-2 "Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds, that you may prove what is the good and perfect will of God." Our minds are renewed by reading and studying God's word, and the Spirit helps us to believe what God says.
     
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  5. Nathan@work

    [email protected] Always ready :)

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    Those are a lot of questions! :)

    The letter kills because that was what it was designed to do.

    God did not want humans eating of the tree of knowledge(good/evil). But because man did, it corrupted his thinking. It made him 'think' he could 'think' as God does.

    God gave the letter to mankind after, specifically to bring them under self-inflicted bondage, in order to show us His love.

    God did not want man to live 'forever' with that corrupt knowledge - therefore the letter kills by way of love.
     
  6. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Would you explain this concept further?
     
  7. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    to hold to (measure) any truth/word and keep it over a day it becomes a lie (filled with worms) ...

    and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.





     
  8. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    What?? What is your basis for this strange statement?
     
  9. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    God
     
  10. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Well God tells me just the opposite! Can't you give a better reply than saying that God told you? Otherwise, why should I or anyone else believe you?
     
  11. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    Basis meaning ... the underlying support or foundation for an idea, argument, or process.
     
  12. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Thanks, but that doesn't answer the question: Can't you give a better reply than saying that God told you? Otherwise, why should I or anyone else believe you?
     
  13. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    when ones eye is single (mind of Christ/Truth) even the darkness becomes light ...
     
  14. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Since you can't give a straight answer I'm not paying any more attention to your posts. Bye.
     
  15. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    i did its just your soul/women is in the way of hearing it ... her language being measurement ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  16. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    The distinction between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is not in regard to following different sets of laws, but in regard to the manner in which someone obeys a law without regard to the intent behind it. For example:

    Leviticus 19:12 “‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

    Someone who was focused on obeying the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us not to swear falsely, whereas someone who was focused on obeying the letter of this law exactly how it was written would understand that we can swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name, which incidentally is what Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees for doing in Matthew 5:33-37. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faithfulness are weightier matters of the law, so the Mosaic Law is intended to teach us how to express God's character traits. So obeying the Mosaic Law according to the letter undermines both the intent of what God has commanded His followers to do and why He has commanded us to do it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it.

    In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, obedience to the Mosaic Law brings life and a blessing while it is disobedience that brings death. In Deuteronomy 32:47, it is our very life. In Leviticus 18:5, Galatians 3:12, and Romans 10:5, the one who obeys the Mosaic Law will attain life by it. In Proverbs 3:18, she is a tree of life for all who take hold of her. In Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is by the Spirit gives life.
     
  17. Nathan@work

    [email protected] Always ready :)

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    So, Galatians and Romans do not say you will attain life by the Mosaic Law. They are contrasting it to Faith, saying that you live by one or the other - not both.

    Yes, if you could obey the Mosaic Law perfectly, you would have life. However, if you break one, you have broken them all. What is broken can no longer, ever, be perfect.

    It just so happens that One did obey them all. And to Him, Eternal life was given.

    Only through him now, by Faith, will we receive life. The Mosaic Law brings death to those who live by it.
     
  18. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    Concerning your statement:
    I suppose you're talking about Christ. The fact that He never sinned doesn't mean He obeyed the Mosaic Law perfectly. By implication, He admitted that He broke the letter of the law by letting His disciples harvest grain for themselves on the Sabbath, by arguing that King David broke the law by taking the consecrated bread for himself and his men. Although the argument is against the Pharisaic legalism, it still holds true that perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law doesn't save anyone, which is what the apostle Paul's arguments in Romans and Galatians is all about. Paul got his revelation from Christ Himself, so neither did Christ believe that perfect obedience resulted in salvation. Jesus was perfect in all things because of His trust in the Father and His love for God and people. He didn't need to obey the letter, since He was also Lord of it.
     
  19. Nathan@work

    [email protected] Always ready :)

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    I am talking about Him. :)

    Jesus never claims that Him, nor His disciples, ever broke the Sabbath.

    He simply used the Pharisee way of looking at things to point out their error of judgement.

    Christ fulfilled the law, all of it, to show His perfection and the true intent of the law - which was to point toward Him in all things.

    He could not have fulfilled something that He had broken. It is mans view of things that breaks them.
     
  20. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works in obedience to God is what faith looks like. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equate with obeying him. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In John 6:40, those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is also an example of obedience to God, and there are many other verses that associate faith with obedience and unbelief with disobedience.

    In Romans 10:4-10, Jesus is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. This faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, and in regard to what we are submitting to when we confess that Jesus is Lord.

    In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as the ones who are living in obedience to the Mosaic law, while no one is justified before God by works of the law because they are not of faith, unlike the Mosaic Law. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Mosaic Law, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it.

    The verses I that I cited said nothing about needing to obey the Mosaic Law perfectly. The Mosaic Law came with instructions for what to do when people sinned, so perfect obedience was never a requirement for us. Repentance does not change the fact that we have already failed to have perfect obedience, so there would be no point in repentance if we needed prefect obedience, and the fact that repentance has value demonstrates that it is not a requirement. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that the Mosaic Law is not to difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience. Thinking that we need to have perfect obedience would mean that God essentially gave the Mosaic Law with the goal of cursing His children, which is expressing an extremely poor opinion of God, when in reality it was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

    In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late, and he was not discouraging them from trying to keep the Mosaic Law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to do a better job of obeying it more consistently. If we break any law and become a lawbreaker, then we need to repent and to return to obedience through faith. Even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, then they would still would not earn eternal life because it was never given for that purpose.

    Again, thinking that God gave the Mosaic Law in order to bring death to His children is expressing an extremely poor opinion of God. In Deuteronomy 30:15-20 is brings life for obedience and death for disobedience, not the other way around. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Jesus began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to think that God wanted His people to do that so that He could bring death to us and to think that in order to avoid death we are better off living in complete disobedience to God as if God doesn't want to be obeyed and will punish anyone who repents and tries to obey Him.
     
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