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The Lesson We Need to Learn

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Ana the Ist, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:49 AM.

  1. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Many people are upset about the Capitol incident....and rightly so. It is upsetting. I'm not afraid of an insurrection or coup though....that's not going to happen. It's certainly not going to happen at the hands of the clowns that stormed the Capitol.

    I'm more afraid that the average person doesn't understand the role they played in things getting to this point. It's all about the behavior that you're willing to support, make excuses for, or even just tolerate.

    Let's take a look at this article from the Atlantic at the beginning of June 2020.

    The Double Standard of the American Riot

    The article is pretty clear....violence and rebellion against the authority of the US government is justified if you feel your cause is important enough.

    Various forms of this argument were made and propped up by left wing media for the next three months. During those three months, many people were willing to excuse violence against police and the intimidation of government officials. They would say the don't condone violence out of one side of their mouth.....then they'd express support for the group doing the violence in the very next breath.

    The message there is pretty clear....violence is excusable if you feel really strongly about your cause.

    During those months many people were scared when the violence was in their cities, on their streets....or right in their faces. A lot of those people were mocked, or made fun of. Mayors and governors declared their support for the rioters and looters and blamed the police or federal officers who tried to restore the rule of law. People continually expressed their support for the groups committing these acts....and repeatedly blamed police for using any force against them. They donated bail to the guilty....they donated money to the group responsible for the violence.

    So now when a group of Trump supporters decided to protest at the Capitol and it quickly turned into violence, destruction of property, and intimidation of public officials.....people want someone to blame. The reality is that if you were willing to ignore the violence and rioting over the summer and supported those doing it....then you are to blame.

    We shouldn't allow this kind of behavior ever. There's no justification for rioting and violence and destruction of property or intimidating officials....at all. The Atlantic, the New York Times, CNN, and every other publication that made excuses for these people are wrong.

    The moment that a protest results in violence against the police....it's no longer justified. We should support the police when they use force to stop it. We should stop supporting any group that decides to attack police and tries to intimidate public officials.

    People have a right to protest peacefully. If they go around destroying property, they should be arrested and the protest ended. If they go around surrounding and intimidating public officials...they should be considered terrorists. If any group regularly engages in such behavior, they should be declared a terrorist organization and it's supporters should be arrested. We should support the police in stopping these people and that includes allowing the police to decide when to use force.

    If we do this....and consistently condemn the groups who are guilty of these things....I'm certain we can avoid any incidents like the Capitol riot in the future.

    I'm afraid that won't happen though. I'm afraid that both sides will feel justified in supporting the violence their side does and only condemning it from the other side. If that continues, I'm afraid this will escalate to full scale bloodshed here in the US.

    It's entirely avoidable....but only if we support the rule of law consistently for everyone....no matter what they are protesting. As I said at the beginning of this post, it's all about the behavior you're willing to support, make excuses for, or even just tolerate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 1:06 AM
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  2. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    Except virtually no one did this. nearly everyone regardless of political spectrum wanted them to be held accountable, they just also wanted resolutions to the issues that were behind these acts.
     
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  3. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    I'm sorry....but the group committing these acts was getting a vast amount of support from the public.

    If you supported Black Lives Matter before they committed destruction, violence, and intimidation of public officials and then stopped supporting them and condemned them....that would be one thing.

    That's not what people did though. The violence at the Capitol was perpetrated by a few people. Do you think it's reasonable to support the group but condemn the few who committed the violence?
     
  4. Nithavela

    Nithavela Inexplicably high, inexplicably low

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    Another "let's make this about the left" thread.
     
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  5. A2SG

    A2SG Gumby

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    Sure.

    I wonder, though, if the support you mention above for Black Lives Matter was actually only for the group itself, and not for the few who committed violence? As you said, that is reasonable.

    -- A2SG, and we know that BLM, the organization, has publicly denounced violence.....
     
  6. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    The group was getting support because they were protesting people being executed by police in the streets.

    They weren't trying to overthrow the government and murder congressmen.

    Beyond that extremely few of the BLM protesters resorted to violence and/or destruction. We literally watched thousands of Trump supporters storm the capitol calling for death, beating police officers (one to death).
     
  7. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    It's about standards....or principles....or values.

    It's about hypocrisy.

    I'm not saying one side is more or less guilty than the other. I'm pointing out how we got to this point.

    Those people who stormed the Capitol didn't suddenly decide to engage in behavior that no one had ever done in recent memory. Those cops weren't suddenly ineffective.

    Half the nation has been condemning police for being too harsh to protesters for half a year. It didn't matter if the police were physically attacked....people didn't want them to use force unless they were basically being murdered. They wanted police to capitulate and show solidarity with protesters just months ago.

    It's extremely hypocritical to expect them to suddenly crack down on protesters just because the cause they're protesting isn't something the left supports.
     
  8. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Right....and if the had stayed at peaceful protests....there would be nothing wrong with supporting them. Those peaceful protests frequently turned into violence ,destruction, attacks on police and intimidation of government officials.

    That's when all support should have ended. That's when condemnation should have started. That's when people should have demanded support for the police and an end of violent protests.

    And I have no doubt they felt just as strongly about their cause as the other protesters.

    That's the problem. You can't justify violence just because you support the cause. Read the article....that's basically the main point. Violence is justified if you feel strongly about the cause.

    No offense....but that's ridiculous. You had BLM supporters chanting "burn the system down". If you add up all the BLM protesters arrested during their riots (whether their charges were dropped or not) it's a vastly higher number than the people at the Capitol.

    Furthermore, we only have maybe 1 or two who murdered a cop....maybe a dozen or two dozen who are probably guilty of assault. The vast majority didn't do anything worse than property damage....something we let thousands of protesters off the hook for in 2020. I mean people even bailed them out.

    If BLM stormed the Capitol and had the same results....would you condemn the whole organization as domestic terrorists? Probably not, right? You'd excuse them by saying it's a few bad actors in an otherwise peaceful protest.

    That's the problem. We're supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law. If you're willing to excuse lawbreakers because you sympathize with their reasons for breaking the law.....then why wouldn't others think it's ok for them to do the same?
     
  9. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    What is denouncing violence good for if they go out again the next night and commit more violence?

    Regarding destruction of property....most people were willing to excuse it over the summer. They didn't see it as cause for the police to use tear gas or pepper spray or force of any kind. They didn't see it as violence.

    If that's the standard we're going by....very very few of those at the Capitol are guilty of any violence.

    Personally, I think once a protest turns to destruction of property....or any attacks on police (including throwing things like water bottles) it's no longer a peaceful protest, it's a riot. We should support the police in using force to end a riot.

    The public was all too willing to excuse violence or dismiss it as the result of a few bad actors.

    Let's imagine that you don't know what a group of protesters are protesting.....just that they are all the same group, organization, or cause. Now let's say that every night they protest in 4 cities....and at least one of those protests is violent every night. Violence like destruction of property, attacking police or civilians, or surrounding and threatening or intimidating public officials.

    Is it reasonable to support this group because 75% are peaceful? Or should we condemn them because they routinely engage in violence every night?
     
  10. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! My Weakness for His Strength Supporter

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    Good post.
     
  11. A2SG

    A2SG Gumby

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    Why are you assuming the official position of the organization itself is to be dishonest? Are you claiming that Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, Inc. is committing violence?

    What do you base that accusation on?

    Who are "most people"? And why do you feel you're able to speak for them, on their behalf? I don't recall anyone specifically saying that destruction of property is okay...and certainly no one claimed it was legal.

    Who, exactly, is saying otherwise? If you have a problem with them saying it, take it up with them.

    Within reason, sure.

    "The Public" doesn't speak as one. If some individuals feel the violence was excusable, that's their opinion; conversely, if another individual feels police should be allowed to use nuclear weapons, that's their opinion, too. The views expressed by some individuals are not shared by all. If you disagree with those views, take it up with those who express them.

    If the group's official statement is to denounce the violence, why would you not believe that?

    -- A2SG, or, I dunno, you could blame the people doing stuff for doing that stuff, and not blame the people not doing it....
     
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  12. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

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    In a normal country I would agree. In America?

    The Oligarchs have made this situation where the only way to effect change is direct action.
     
  13. Nithavela

    Nithavela Inexplicably high, inexplicably low

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    You still believe in this stuff?
     
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  14. gaara4158

    gaara4158 (Power Level Hidden)

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    If you’re going to lay the fringe violence associated with 7% of the BLM protests at the feet of the BLM movement at large, then you also have to lay this attempted coup at the feet of all Trump supporters. Otherwise you’re the one with a double standard.
     
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  15. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    If that were the case, all support should have ended for Trump before he was elected and his ralliers attacked people.
     
  16. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    Yeah, I don't get why actual Americans would think that what some black people did months ago is the most important thing to talk about less than a week after the Capitol was attacked by right wing terrorists.

    Why even bother addressing nonsense like that? It serves no purpose other than to legitimize an attempt to normalize politically-motivated violence from the right.
     
  17. cow451

    cow451 The Most Interesting Poster in the Forum Supporter

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    Who are the "Oligarchs"?
     
  18. Nithavela

    Nithavela Inexplicably high, inexplicably low

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    It's the same story as the last four years. "The left made us do it."
     
  19. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

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    The evil doers in their volcano lairs buying off the politicians with ill gotten gains.

    Or something similar.
     
  20. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    This tweet is still up btw

    upload_2021-1-13_11-10-41.png

    hmmmm

    [​IMG]
     
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