The leader of website left Bapism out od the Plan of Salvation!

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

I am still waiting for you to show me where I have erred in my logic steps where I showed you that water baptism is what puts you into christ.

1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink[regeneration] into one Spirit

Titus 3:5 Not of works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He saved us by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism 6 One God and Father of all who is above all, and through all, and in you[Christians...very personal] all.


refer to 1 cor 12:13


It is amazing that God the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit dwells inside of me ,who is yet a sinner, still maturing me day by day until perfection

 

[aggie03]

I suggest anyone interested in this thread go check out the formal debate on baptism that is occurring right now! http://www.christianforums.com/t50011

 

[Ben johnson]

I told you in my last post that I would answer your question later. I have already shown you with out a doubt that water baptism is the point that you enter into Christ and since the bible doesnt contridict itself the verses that you question can easily be answered especially when realize that water baptism was that which was to last to the end of time and HS baptism which is only recorded 2 times in the bible was a limited promise and does not happen today.

No "Holy Spirit Baptism"??? Are you SURE?

REALIZING that "baptize" in the Greek only means IMMERSE, Matt3:11-12 speaks of "BAPTISM/IMMERSION in FIRE for SINNERS". Nowwww, I happen to know that FIRE and WATER don't LIKE each other; so that baptism is NOT water. So too SPIRIT-immersion: John clearly differentiates the WATER-BAPTISM from SPIRIT-baptism.

QUESTION: Do you believe that we are to be FILLED with the SPIRIT TODAY? Can you point to a difference between being FILLED with the Spirit, and IMMERSED in the Spirit? Before you answer, let's please discuss SALVATION; now, Hebrews uses a word, "METOCHOS", to describe the three-fold nature of salvation; you see, "metochos" means "partakers", but it is DEEPER --- it means, "PARTNERS".

Heb3:1: "PARTNERS in a heavenly calling"
Heb3:14: "PARTNERS in Christ"
Heb6:4: "PARTNERS in the Holy Spirit"

Do you see? Jesus said, "My Father will send you a helper, the Holy Spirit (Jn14:6)"; there is NOTHING that even HINTS that the Holy Spirit is NOT JUST AS INDWELLING TODAY as THEN!

Eph5:18 says, "Be FILLED with the Holy SPirit"!

Salvation is, identically, INDWELLING by the Holy Spirit; this is the "baptism", the "immersion" spoken of by John in Matt3!

Salvation is, also, identically, INDWELLING by Christ; this is the baptism spoken of in Romans 6; the "immersion into Christ". Immersion into the Spirit has nothing to do with water in Matt3, immersion into Christ has NOTHING to do with water in Rom6!

Furthermore, Cornelius' family in Acts 10 were NO less saved than the Apostles (says so in 11:15&17), but they were NOT YET DIPPED! And, in Acts 8:14-16 they had been WATERBAPTIZED but had not yet received the HOLY SPIRIT; so in one letter we see:
1. Salvation BEFORE waterbaptism
2. salvation AFTER waterbaptism.

Leaving us with only ONE conclusion: SALVATION IS SEPARATE FROM WATERBAPTISM!

Can't imagine how this is deniable; the Scriptrure seems clear...

 

[aggie03]

Do you see? Jesus said, "My Father will send you a helper, the Holy Spirit (Jn14:6)"; there is NOTHING that even HINTS that the Holy Spirit is NOT JUST AS INDWELLING TODAY as THEN!

SO do you believe in the gifts that accompanied those on the onyl 2 occassions where baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs in the New Testament (Acts 2 & 10)?

Furthermore, Cornelius' family in Acts 10 were NO less saved than the Apostles (says so in 11:15&17), but they were NOT YET DIPPED! And, in Acts 8:14-16 they had been WATERBAPTIZED but had not yet received the HOLY SPIRIT; so in one letter we see:
1. Salvation BEFORE waterbaptism
2. salvation AFTER waterbaptism.

They weren't saved until after they were baptized, in water, for the remission of their sins in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If you wish to discuss this point more, I would be glad to so.

Leaving us with only ONE conclusion: SALVATION IS SEPARATE FROM WATERBAPTISM!

Mark 16:16 seems to be quite contrary to the view that you hold. It records Christ as stating that both baptism and belief are necessary for our salvation.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

uh not another baptism debate............

 

[aggie03]

It's part of preaching Jesus - if we neglect it, we neglect the full gospel of Christ.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

check out over in liberal section about baptism by God and how he does all the work with verses after verse step by step as much as I know probly miss a few though

 

[Ben johnson]

They weren't saved until after they were baptized, in water, for the remission of their sins in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

According to Acts 11:15 & 17, they were every bit as saved as Peter and the Apostles (and this was before the dipping).

Mark 16:16 seems to be quite contrary to the view that you hold. It records Christ as stating that both baptism and belief are necessary for our salvation.

It says, "he who believes and is baptized is saved". If waterbaptism was part of SALVATION, why doesn't he continue saying: "but those who do NOT believe or are NOT baptized are condemned"? He says, "unbelief condemns"; not "undipped"...

check out over in liberal section about baptism by God and how he does all the work with verses after verse step by step as much as I know probly miss a few though

What's the link?

uh not another baptism debate............

Ben runs giggling from the room...

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Mark 16:16 He the believeth [romans 4:5] and is baptised[1 cor 12:13] is saved

its so easy to harmonize

no water in mark boys

 

[Tawhano]

Ben johnson Said:
According to Acts 11:15 & 17, they were every bit as saved as Peter and the Apostles (and this was before the dipping).

I don’t see where those verses you quoted said they were saved. I believe the Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit seals us with the promise yes but salvation comes to those who fight the good fight, at the end.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

At the end, nearer than when we first believed. We have the earnest of the Holy Spirit but we have not yet received salvation. Those who are sealed and endure till the return of Christ will receive this promise.

Revelations 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Acts 2:37-39
Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I look at it this way; Jesus was baptized and said all he did was the will of the Father. Then we hear Peter tell us to be baptized. If you willfully avoid baptism then you are disobedient. If you are willfully disobedient then you certainly do not believe.

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
Mark 16:16 He the believeth [romans 4:5] and is baptised[1 cor 12:13] is saved
its so easy to harmonize
no water in mark boys

I see, so that one verse in Mark negates all the other verses that mention water eh? Harmonize means all the scriptures agree with one another not negate one another.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

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I see, so that one verse in Mark negates all the other verses that mention water eh? Harmonize means all the scriptures agree with one another not negate one another.

when was mark 16:16 after his resurection

promise in John 16:7-13

John 17:21-23 promise of Us being one with Christ....

mark 16:16 believed [romans 4:5]
baptised [1cor 12:13]

look at mark 16:17 sounds like matt 7:21-23 but in matt they wern't eleven apostles

 

[Tawhano]

Sorry A Brethren IN CHRIST, but you lost me with that one.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

when was mark 16:16 after his resurection

promise in John 16:7-13 one day before cross

John 17:21-23 promise of Us being one with Christ....

mark 16:16 believed [romans 4:5]
baptised [1cor 12:13] promise realized in act 2.till rapture..
how .....1 cor 12:13.... eph 2:4-6

look at mark 16:17 works of the 11 apostle ....sounds like matt 7:21-23 did same works............but in matt they wern't eleven apostles so it wasn't what God wanted them to do...

hope that helps

 

[aggie03]

Nope....that didn't really help me out too much...would you please explain what you are trying to present?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

In before belief H.S.[john 16:7-11] convict the children of God[eph 1:4] when this happens the realize that they are sinners and cannot save themselves and need help from the creator..... When they go through this progression this is called belief [Romans 4:5, John 3:18]
when one believes the person is baptised into Christ by the H.S. [1cor 12:13, eph 2:4-9] ...why so that they are considered sons [Gal 4:4-6] thus we have an inheritance and like a good father teaches what is expected thru grace[2peter 3:18] if a son disobey's God will punish him so he does what is expected[heb 12:5-12]

works are ordained to us according to eph 2:10 and he matures us ...brings circomstances to help mature us james 1 so that we can do good works for others to see[james 2]

gotta go to church

comment please aggie03 little more word explaining?

 

[aggie03]

If what you are saying is true, then why does a water baptism occur with every instance of conversion that we have in the Acts? I would even say that they are not saved until they are baptized according to Acts 2:41.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

If what you are saying is true, then why does a water baptism occur with every instance of conversion that we have in the Acts? I would even say that they are not saved until they are baptized according to Acts 2:41.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

Acts is transitional book between law and Grace .........different house rules