The leader of website left Bapism out od the Plan of Salvation!

Baptism is necessary for salvation!

  • yes!!!

  • no!

  • I do not know


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endure

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ya know, i have a theory on how such blatant herecies come about.
i cant find the certain scripture i was looking for but the bible teaches that in the church we must be subject one to another. every christian needs someone that he is subject to, someone who is in authority over him to exhort him, rebuke him, and correct him.
no man is an island to himself. but when people pull away from the groups and away from the rest of the body of Christ becuase their belief doesnt fit. they can act however they wont to. but peter told us of people who despised government, despised dominion, who were not afraid to speak evil of the dignities, people who hated to under someone else, and those people were people that taught "herecies" and pulled many away from the truth.

but thats one reason why i think such false doctrines come about.
 
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Ben johnson

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Forgive me for not reading all three pages. Baptism IS ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION, and NO one is saved WITHOUT it.

...but you must be careful about what that MEANS. You see, it's not WATER-BAPTISM that's part of salvation!

In Matthew 3:11, John says: _I_ baptize with WATER, but _HE_ will baptize with the HOLY SPIRIT!" "Baptize" means only "TO IMMERSE". ANd it's impossible to be SAVED, without being IMMERSED in the SPIRIT.

Likewise, in Romans 6, it uses THREE words: "IMMERSED", "UNITED", "BURIED"; meaning INTO CHRIST (and not into water!).

Hebrews uses a word, "METOCHOS" --- which does mean "partakers", but it really means "PARTNERS":
-In a HEAVENLY CALLING (3:1)
-In CHRIST (3:14)
-In the HOLY SPIRIT (6:4)

Immersed, partnered,fellowship.

Jn3:5-6 is REPETITIVE NARRATIVE; the "twice-told-tale". When Jesus says, "born-water AND Spirit", and then follows with "born-flesh AND Spirit", He's saying the SAME THING TWICE.

"Unless you are born of WATER, nyou shall not inherit..." --- HUDOR, water-as-the-fundamental-element; IE, FLESH.
:)
 
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Jerry_M

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Online Bible Debator said:
Yes I just wanted to say I've seen many types of plans of salvations or ways to God. If your not Blood bought by Christ then your not going to have any prayer answered. I wanted to see what kind of site this was so i seen the How to become a christian at the Bottom. I just wanted to say I know you most likely ment to leave Baptism out. But without Baptism nobody will get to heaven I can post all the scriptures you want. Because the Bible backs up Baptism not praying and getting salvation through a prayer.

Spirit baptism, the new birth, is essential for salvation. Water baptism is not.

One of the problems with most Bible translations is the fact that they do not translate the word baptism, they merely transliterate it. While it is essential that one be "put into" (the meaning of the word baptize) Christ, one does not need to be "put into" water.

As a result, while water baptism is important in that it demonstrates obedience to Christ, it is not essential for salvation. Of course, only one thing is essential for salvation, that is that one be "born from above" and experience the new birth.
 
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endure said:
ya know, i have a theory on how such blatant herecies come about.
i cant find the certain scripture i was looking for but the bible teaches that in the church we must be subject one to another.

but thats one reason why i think such false doctrines come about.

I think that herecies come about because people say what they think and don't know why they think it.
 
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Online Bible Debator said:
Yes I just wanted to say I've seen many types of plans of salvations or ways to God. If your not Blood bought by Christ then your not going to have any prayer answered. I wanted to see what kind of site this was so i seen the How to become a christian at the Bottom. I just wanted to say I know you most likely ment to leave Baptism out. But without Baptism nobody will get to heaven I can post all the scriptures you want. Because the Bible backs up Baptism not praying and getting salvation through a prayer.

Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourselves:it is a gift of God.9 Not of works lest any man should boast

romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

2 cor 5:7 For we walk by faith not by sight

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

2peter 1:20 Knowing this first that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation

better look what god say there
 
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cougan

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourselves:it is a gift of God.9 Not of works lest any man should boast

romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

2 cor 5:7 For we walk by faith not by sight

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

2peter 1:20 Knowing this first that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation

better look what god say there

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his
commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
7 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you
obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were
delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of
righteousness.


Luke 17:7 "And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come at once and sit down to eat'?
8 "But will he not rather say to him, 'Prepare something for my
supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and
afterward you will eat and drink'?
9 "Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were
commanded him? I think not.
10 "So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you
are commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants. We have done
what was our duty to do.'
"


Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always
obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my
absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons
believe -- and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works
is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and
by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed
God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was
called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith
only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when
she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works
is dead
also.


Acts 26:20 but declared both to them of Damascus first and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judaea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

John 6: 28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Matthew 7:21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mat 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ******.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins
, calling on the name of the Lord.

1Peter 3:20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us -- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Col 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with
Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the
dead.
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision
of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven
you all trespasses,

Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death,
certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the
body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be
slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the
things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ,
both men and women were baptized.3 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to
them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture,
preached Jesus to him.
36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And
the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being
baptized?"
37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Acts 10:47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Acts 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were
in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their
stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before
them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

2 TH 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
 
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So How Can Roman 3 :23

Love God

Jesus Died For Us When We Were His Enemies

Please Define Baptism

Acts 1:5
Eph 2:18
Titus 3:5
Eph 4:3-6
1 Cor 12:13
Eph 4:5
Luke 12:50
Acts 10:44-48
1cor 1:17

Make Those Verse Come Together With These Verse According To What You Have Said ...you Can't According To Past Replys
 
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God wants us to be baptized. We all agree. But how does it coincide with salvation? This is my take:

I don't know exactly "when" someone is saved. I do know that we are to love God and have Him living in us. Since we know that He wishes us to be baptized into Him, we will do that if we truly give our life to Him and love Him.

I don't know what else needs to be said.
 
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ZiSunka

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I think refusing to be baptized shows that a person is not ready to obey God, and needs to really think about what it means to be a Christian. It's not a "get out of hell free" card, it's a relationship with God, a father/child relationship. A child who won't obey its father is still a child, but a rebellious, heart-braking child.
 
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lambslove said:
I think refusing to be baptized shows that a person is not ready to obey God, and needs to really think about what it means to be a Christian. It's not a "get out of hell free" card, it's a relationship with God, a father/child relationship. A child who won't obey its father is still a child, but a rebellious, heart-braking child.


agreeded personel relationship BUT nothing doing with salvation
 
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cougan

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
So How Can Roman 3 :23

Love God

Jesus Died For Us When We Were His Enemies

Please Define Baptism

Acts 1:5
Eph 2:18
Titus 3:5
Eph 4:3-6
1 Cor 12:13
Eph 4:5
Luke 12:50
Acts 10:44-48
1cor 1:17

Make Those Verse Come Together With These Verse According To What You Have Said ...you Can't According To Past Replys

Ok lets try something different using your favorite verse along with others.
. Please note the following things that are found in Christ. Grace (2Tim. 2:1), every spiritual blessing (Eph 1:3), redemption and forgiveness of sin (Eph. 1:7), salvation (2Tim. 2:10), eternal life (1Jn. 5:11) and no condemnation (Rom. 8:1).

Would you agree that we must be in Christ in order to be saved? Yes or NO.

The bible makes it clear that there is only 1 body (Eph. 4:4), which is the church that Christ is the head of (Eph. 1:22-23, Col. 1:18). Only those that are in that one body will be saved (Eph. 5:23). Do you agree with this? Yes or no
 
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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
agreeded personel relationship BUT nothing doing with salvation

Faith without works is dead. I agree that baptism doesn't wash away our sins physically, but turning our lives over to God does. When we turn our lives over to God, wouldn't we obey?
 
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Yes, Paul did not come to baptize. This does not prove that it isn't necessary.

Paul was sent to relentlessly preach to let ears hear what must be done to follow Christ. This was his primary task! Remember, at the time Paul wrote this, there was controversy over WHO was baptized by WHOM. Paul thought it silly and useless to debate the value of the baptizer and reminded people of his primary purpose.

Also note that Paul did baptize Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas. Others were baptized by Apollos. Now, Paul believed in living by faith and not law. Did he not?

If this be true, then why did Paul impose what many believe to be a Jewish custom upon the Gentiles??!! He would not have done so if it were a custom. Or, why, when Paul refuted the church, did he not say that baptism was unnecessary??? He did not. Maybe because he could not???

Note, Paul shows us the importance of baptism when he states "Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized INTO the name of Paul?" Why did he not state that baptism was UNNECESSARY? Could it be because it would go against the Gospel that he preached? Could baptism have been part of the message that he preached? Why INTO??

I understand that the crux of this debate rests upon the following: "Is baptism a good work?"

I do not believe that it is a work, for it benefits no one, except the one performing the act.

I give a man a cup of water. He benefits. I have done good. Therefore, I have done a good deed.

I drink a cup of water that I poured for myself. I benefit. Have I done a good deed? No. Because, I did something good for MYSELF.

Now, I drink a cup of water that JESUS has set before me. I benefit. Have I done a good deed? No. Jesus has done the good work by placing the water before me and giving me the choice to accept it or reject it. I, by drinking, have merely made the choice to drink from the cup that Jesus has given me, yet I have done no good deed. No, it is Jesus who has done the good by giving me the choice.

Strange, how if we spritually perform an ACT of accepting Christ's death, we are in agreement. But, if we physically perform ONE act that Christ instructs and his apostles do not deny, war starts.
 
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cougan said:
Ok lets try something different using your favorite verse along with others.
. Please note the following things that are found in Christ. Grace (2Tim. 2:1), every spiritual blessing (Eph 1:3), redemption and forgiveness of sin (Eph. 1:7), salvation (2Tim. 2:10), eternal life (1Jn. 5:11) and no condemnation (Rom. 8:1).

Would you agree that we must be in Christ in order to be saved? Yes or NO.

The bible makes it clear that there is only 1 body (Eph. 4:4), which is the church that Christ is the head of (Eph. 1:22-23, Col. 1:18). Only those that are in that one body will be saved (Eph. 5:23). Do you agree with this? Yes or no


In Christ that means you are saved ......titus 3:5, Matt 3:11
 
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cbk said:
Yes, Paul did not come to baptize. This does not prove that it isn't necessary.

Paul was sent to relentlessly preach to let ears hear what must be done to follow Christ. This was his primary task! Remember, at the time Paul wrote this, there was controversy over WHO was baptized by WHOM. Paul thought it silly and useless to debate the value of the baptizer and reminded people of his primary purpose.

Also note that Paul did baptize Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas. Others were baptized by Apollos. Now, Paul believed in living by faith and not law. Did he not?

If this be true, then why did Paul impose what many believe to be a Jewish custom upon the Gentiles??!! He would not have done so if it were a custom. Or, why, when Paul refuted the church, did he not say that baptism was unnecessary??? He did not. Maybe because he could not???

Note, Paul shows us the importance of baptism when he states "Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized INTO the name of Paul?" Why did he not state that baptism was UNNECESSARY? Could it be because it would go against the Gospel that he preached? Could baptism have been part of the message that he preached? Why INTO??

I understand that the crux of this debate rests upon the following: "Is baptism a good work?"

I do not believe that it is a work, for it benefits no one, except the one performing the act.

I give a man a cup of water. He benefits. I have done good. Therefore, I have done a good deed.

I drink a cup of water that I poured for myself. I benefit. Have I done a good deed? No. Because, I did something good for MYSELF.

Now, I drink a cup of water that JESUS has set before me. I benefit. Have I done a good deed? No. Jesus has done the good work by placing the water before me and giving me the choice to accept it or reject it. I, by drinking, have merely made the choice to drink from the cup that Jesus has given me, yet I have done no good deed. No, it is Jesus who has done the good by giving me the choice.

Strange, how if we spritually perform an ACT of accepting Christ's death, we are in agreement. But, if we physically perform ONE act that Christ instructs and his apostles do not deny, war starts.


one again spirit baptism = salavation Titus 3:5
water baptism = obiedience not salavtion
 
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cougan

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
In Christ that means you are saved ......titus 3:5, Matt 3:11

Ok, we agree at this point that one must be IN CHRIST which is the same as being in THE ONE BODY which is Christ in order to be saved. Now answer this question.

When does one enter into Christ or into his body where you become saved?

I will help you by listing the verse that state when and how this is done.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were
baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into
one body
-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free -- and
have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Now do you agree that one must be baptized in order to get into Chirst or get into his body as the bible so plainly states? Yes or no

Based of the 2 verse you listed in the post Titus 3:5, Mat 3:11 I would assume that you believe that the baptism that puts you into Jesus and his body is Holy Spirit baptism and its not until one is HS baptized that they become saved. Is this your thinking?

The baptism/immersion has to either water baptism or HS baptism that puts you into Chirst and it cant be both because at the time Paul wrote Ephesians there was only 1 baptism left. Eph 4:5. Do you agree with this? Yes or no.
 
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your talking about us accepting Christ which we have a small part of are salvation but if the holy spirit did not hold back the god of this world so that light could enlighten us ... to convience us we on are own power would never accept Christ as are savior.

see what I mean?

without HS........ romans 3:11
with Holy Spirit ....1 cor 2:10
 
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cougan

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
your talking about us accepting Christ which we have a small part of are salvation but if the holy spirit did not hold back the god of this world so that light could enlighten us ... to convience us we on are own power would never accept Christ as are savior.

see what I mean?

without HS........ romans 3:11
with Holy Spirit ....1 cor 2:10

Please answer my questions. The above statement doesnt answer my questions. Thanks, Cougan
 
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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
your talking about us accepting Christ which we have a small part of are salvation but if the holy spirit did not hold back the god of this world so that light could enlighten us ... to convience us we on are own power would never accept Christ as are savior.

see what I mean?

without HS........ romans 3:11
with Holy Spirit ....1 cor 2:10


Yes we have to believe But who picked up before the foundations of the world????

Now my question above also
 
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