The LAW the Sabbath and the Gospel of Matthew - Shall we reject them?

[BobRyan]

The third issue is a doctrinal problem, the authors of the synoptic gospels were not apostles. The synoptic gospels differ in the accounts of the resurrection. Are they accurate enough to be reliable for developing doctrine? Some cults within Christianity use Matthew's gospel a lot to establish their own version of the gospel.

Are you saying that "you are a cult if you follow the teachings of Jesus found in scripture in the case of the gospel of Matthew"??

That's exactly what I am saying.

That clears that up

I hate to accuse someone of saying something wrong that they themselves claim they are not saying.

Not sure if that is a serious post or not- but supposing for a second that it was serious - wouldn't it explain some of the push back you find now and then to the gospel of Matthew?

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I just noticed that this thread is not in the "Sabbath and the law" section - I thought I put it there and not in general theology... sorry for the confusion ... please move the thread if you think that is best - either way is fine with me.

 

[BobRyan]

If someone felt the need to call Matthew "bad" where might that happen?

Matthew 5??
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 7
13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

A Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

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Not that I would favor rejecting the Word of God as we see it in Matthew..

 

[BobRyan]

or maybe -- Matt 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?”

And Jesus said, (All from the LAW of Moses)
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20:12
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

New Covenant where we find the "LAW written on heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-34


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Not that I would favor rejecting the Word of God as we see it in Matthew..

 

[klutedavid]

Are you saying that "you are a cult if you follow the teachings of Jesus found in scripture in the case of the gospel of Matthew"??
Not sure if that is a serious post or not- but supposing for a second that it was serious - wouldn't it explain some of the push back you find now and then to the gospel of Matthew?

If you develop doctrine based on the gospel of Matthew you more than likely, will end up with unsound doctrine.

 

[klutedavid]

or maybe -- Matt 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?”

And Jesus said, (All from the LAW of Moses)
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20:12
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

New Covenant where we find the "LAW written on heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-34

Your missing some commandments in that list?

 

[topher694]

This has to be one of the funniest, most ironic and alarming things all rolled into one that I've seen here.

 

[BobRyan]

Your missing some commandments in that list?

True - it did not list "do not take God's name in vain"

 

[klutedavid]

True - it did not list "do not take God's name in vain"

What about not forgiving others?

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Looks like a commandment, sounds like a commandment.

What do you think Bob?

 

[BobRyan]

Your missing some commandments in that list?

True - it did not list "do not take God's name in vain"

What about not forgiving others?

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Looks like a commandment, sounds like a commandment.

What do you think Bob?

I think the book of Mathew is also scripture and the teachings of Jesus we find in it are for all. Just as 2 Tim 3:16 says "for doctrine"

 

[pescador]

If you develop doctrine based on the gospel of Matthew you more than likely, will end up with unsound doctrine.

Should we then tear Matthew out of our Bibles? It is God's word, just as the rest of the Bible is.

 

[topher694]

If you develop doctrine based on the gospel of Matthew you more than likely, will end up with unsound doctrine.

Ah, the irony

 

[klutedavid]

True - it did not list "do not take God's name in vain"



I think the book of Mathew is also scripture and the teachings of Jesus we find in it are for all. Just as 2 Tim 3:16 says "for doctrine"

I asked you what you think of the following verse.

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Regardless of how obedient you are, if you do not forgive others then you are not forgiven.

Forgiveness is not one of the ten commandments so how do you reconcile what Jesus said in Matthew?

 

[klutedavid]

Should we then tear Matthew out of our Bibles? It is God's word, just as the rest of the Bible is.

In Matthew's gospel Jesus says that when the bridegroom departs then His disciples will fast!

Do you fast?

If not, why do you not obey what Jesus said?

 

[klutedavid]

If someone felt the need to call Matthew "bad" where might that happen?

I never called the gospel of Matthew "bad"?

Why did you put the word "bad" into inverted commas?

Not that I would favor rejecting the Word of God as we see it in Matthew..

Who said anything about rejecting the word of God in Matthew?

That is not what I said.

I said that Matthew's gospel is not a wise source for developing doctrine, because it is an account of the life of Jesus. Which is not a rejection of the gospel of Matthew but understanding that Matthew's gospel, was not written as an instruction manual for the Christian life.

 

[BobRyan]

Your missing some commandments in that list?

True - it did not list "do not take God's name in vain"

What about not forgiving others?

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Looks like a commandment, sounds like a commandment.

What do you think Bob?

I think the book of Mathew is also scripture and the teachings of Jesus we find in it are for all. Just as 2 Tim 3:16 says "for doctrine"

I asked you what you think of the following verse.

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Regardless of how obedient you are, if you do not forgive others then you are not forgiven.

Forgiveness is not one of the ten commandments so how do you reconcile what Jesus said in Matthew?

I already answered this - when I said I fully accept the Gospel of Matthew as scripture and that the teaching of Christ is to be obeyed - scripture "all scripture" as 2 Tim 3:16 is to be used for doctrine.

How is this helping you in the least?

Is there some statement of mine that you question or are unclear about??

You keep saying you found some part of Matthew that is not also one of the Ten Commandments as if I am supposed to be shocked by that.. what is it that I have posted that causes you to think I have remotely given that as one of my views???

Have I ever said - "there are no commands in the bible other than the TEN"?
Have I ever said "there are no commands in the OT other than the TEN"?
Have I ever said "there are no commands in Matthew other than the TEN"?

 

[BobRyan]

I said that Matthew's gospel is not a wise source for developing doctrine, because it is an account of the life of Jesus.

Ok - but you realize that "for the rest of us" - that sounds "bad".

The BIBLE says "16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, "

but you say --

Matthew's gospel, was not written as an instruction manual for the Christian life.

Let the reader choose between the two.

 

[klutedavid]

True - it did not list "do not take God's name in vain"



I think the book of Mathew is also scripture and the teachings of Jesus we find in it are for all. Just as 2 Tim 3:16 says "for doctrine"



I already answered this - when I said I fully accept the Gospel of Matthew as scripture and that the teaching of Christ is to be obeyed - scripture "all scripture" as 2 Tim 3:16 is to be used for doctrine.

How is this helping you in the least?

Is there some statement of mine that you question or are unclear about??

You keep saying you found some part of Matthew that is not also one of the Ten Commandments as if I am supposed to be shocked by that.. what is it that I have posted that causes you to think I have remotely given that as one of my views???

Have I ever said - "there are no commands in the bible other than the TEN"?
Have I ever said "there are no commands in the OT other than the TEN"?
Have I ever said "there are no commands in Matthew other than the TEN"?

So why do you place such emphasis on the ten commandments when you are fully aware. That there are commandments of much greater significance in the scripture than the ten commandments.

For example Bob.

Matthew 12:32
Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

I don't know about you but I would rather be guilty of coveting my neighbor's oxen, than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That sin, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, cannot ever be forgiven in any age and is a death sentence.

That is a commandment and a very serious commandment. One that I am terrified of ever breaking as it has no exit clause.

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Another powerful commandment that allows no breach, no forgiveness.

Some sins are beyond forgiveness and redemption. Whereas stealing and lying are in the category of forgivable sins.

So you tell me what are the commandments that really matter?

Step up to the plate and straighten this out.

 

[klutedavid]

True - it did not list "do not take God's name in vain"



I think the book of Mathew is also scripture and the teachings of Jesus we find in it are for all. Just as 2 Tim 3:16 says "for doctrine"



I already answered this - when I said I fully accept the Gospel of Matthew as scripture and that the teaching of Christ is to be obeyed - scripture "all scripture" as 2 Tim 3:16 is to be used for doctrine.

How is this helping you in the least?

Is there some statement of mine that you question or are unclear about??

You keep saying you found some part of Matthew that is not also one of the Ten Commandments as if I am supposed to be shocked by that.. what is it that I have posted that causes you to think I have remotely given that as one of my views???

Have I ever said - "there are no commands in the bible other than the TEN"?
Have I ever said "there are no commands in the OT other than the TEN"?
Have I ever said "there are no commands in Matthew other than the TEN"?

One gets the impression from a thousand posts you have submitted. That you only favor the ten commandments.

That is why I am asking you to table the commandments that matter.

 

[klutedavid]

Ok - but you realize that "for the rest of us" - that sounds "bad".

The BIBLE says "16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, "
but you say --
Let the reader choose between the two.

That may have sounded bad to you but you placed the word 'bad' in inverted commas. This means that I said the word 'bad' when I did not say that word.

Your usage of the English language is misleading.

 

[BobRyan]

That may have sounded bad to you but you placed the word 'bad' in inverted commas. .

interesting comment.