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Featured The Law loses again..God must be angry!

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Blood Bought 1953, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member

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    Whatever... you are going to hop, skip and jump around and in the end you are pushing the idea that when a book like Exodus uses, "Thus says YHWH" that it might not and probably isn't really from Him. Accepting that isn't expecting any translation to be perfect as no translation is... but "thus says the Lord" doesn't get lost across languages and I trust that God Himself is capable of preserving what He wants us to have. If you don't accept that, fine... but others should be aware that your position undermines the faith. It places doubt where there need not be doubt. Most of our answers come from Scripture not history and not science... to cast doubt on Scripture is to take away the most important piece of evidence we have that supports our faith seeing the NT doesn't exist without the OT.

    Don't bother responding to me, there is nothing left to say. Thanks.
     
  2. YouAreAwesome

    YouAreAwesome ☝✌

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    Heh. Just to clarify, I was attempting to say that if we believe intellectual honesty leads to atheism, we are already atheist. Sometimes we are scared to ask certain questions or really seek for answers on topics we are scared will shake our faith, but we need not be afraid because the more honest and open we are the stronger our faith becomes -- God is not insecure and I'm sure He smiles when we ask, what we think are, difficult questions.
     
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  3. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Yes, that helps a little any way....
    Realize that faith is a sheer gift of grace, a gift from Yahweh.
    We cannot earn it nor achieve it apart from Him.
    (I think you know this, so this is just for outside readers)
    We can CHOOSE to act in faith in Yahweh,
    and we can CHOOSE NOT Do what He Says, i.e. not to act in faith,
    so when He judges us, we are rightly judged for our choice.

    This is probably best for another thread, and maybe already there ! :)
     
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  4. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    The problem with relying on good works/actions is that you will never know if you have done enough good works.
    Was one good work a day enough to get me into Heaven?
    Or
    I was sick today and was bedridden and I was unable to do any good works, did I lose my salvation?
    Or
    Did my good works at least outweigh the bad works I did?
    To look at good works for your salvation or assurance of your salvation is to look at yourself.
    The only thing you should examine yourself for is to make sure you are still in faith. Are you depending solely on what Christ has done for you?
     
  5. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Active Member

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    First... no good works today? Sick in bed! (Giving condescending look of judgment to you)

    Sure... Jesus is God and stuff... but doesn’t He need your help to save you just one tiny bit? I mean... believing and trusting His work and the Holy Spirit’s work in your day to day life... isn’t that risky?!?
     
  6. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    Don’t worry about the need to start another thread....the thought behind the original thread was lost long ago....lol
     
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  7. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Na, that never was a problem, it's never enough, never cease doing good ...give all we are willing to. Christ gave all he possibly could, how much are we willing to give? It's even rewarded so get to it....excellent investment :)

    Though that isn't a problem at all, for some reason it's another popular come back against the necessity of good works.

    Can someone for once tell me why it's a problem?
     
  8. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    Good works are great anytime.Muhammed Ali had his driver stop to pick up a homeless hitch-hiker one time.Ali tried to give the poor man some money..the man refused. Ali tried to force him the guy to take it......” you Have to take it—-I’m trying to do good works in order to deserve heaven” Ali pleaded. The poor man said “ I can’t take your money, I’m trying to earn my way too! “. Is this the way you think Christianity works? I don’t really think so....I think there is a misunderstanding somewhere .its faith not works-“lest any man should boast”. If you are a Believer,good works will accrue in your Heavenly reward account —- They play no role in Salvation....just ask Mr. Ali
     
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  9. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    Because you can never do enough good works.
    And don't even think of trying to tell me you do good works every second of every day.
    And if somehow you could do that many good works it would be totally insufficient to gain even one second of favor with God, let alone eternal life.

    Think of God's wonderful gift to us as He paid every debt we ever owed and made provision for every debt we will ever owe for our entire life.

    And then you say, somehow, someday I will pay you back. But the debt you owed was 1000 quadrillion dollars and the most you could come up with if you managed to save everything you earned in your lifetime was a trillion dollars.
    And you tried to give this pittance of what you actually owe to your benefactor, what do you think His reply would be?
     
  10. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    He didn't ignore the law; God Himself spoke to Him and told Him what to do.
     
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  11. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh, don't worry, I won't, it's ridiculous to even expect someone to even consider such a thing, yet there it is.

    And because of that, good works aren't a necessity? Why would you even think there were a certain about of good works we have to do? Some are rich some are poor some live longer than others. To those who are given much, much will be required and vice versa. It simply cannot be calculated by anyone but God, so it's a null point. Still, people insist on using it as an excuse to why good works aren't necessary. It makes no since at all to expect a set amount of good works...God never once stated such.

    How bout "I can never make enough money for my family so why bother making any at all?" Make sense to you? Not me.

    Hey, try this one, If I wanted to go that route, I could tell you we can never have enough faith so why bother having any at all? Now does that make any sense? Of course it doesn't...no more sense than calculating an amount of good.

    And if we can "never do enough good works", then why did Jesus say: and again I post...

    John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

    They did enough.

    You can change the "done good" part to "Believing on the Son" once again if you like, in order to do away with the bible telling us we have to do good, but as I've already said, that is not what the bible says, nothing even close, it says "those who have done what is good will rise to live".

    If someone taught you that, and you believed them, I'm sorry, and I know this makes some of you angry but it's right there in black and white and I wouldn't be much of a Christian if I didn't do as others are here who care enough about you to try to see to it you see the truth.

    However, there is a point where it all comes down to you seeing that truth, or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  12. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not only that, but it's very dangerous to all parties involved.
     
  13. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    The good we have to do, is doing our best to grow in the law. That's why Jesus said (in the verse you linked) I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

    He's saying I'm judging using the standard of Him who sent me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  14. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Friend ~ I speak for myself. I am not SINLESS.

    I was naturally born from a mans corrupt seed;
    born in sin, not knowing, not believing, not loving, not obeying, not WITH the Lord.....

    But the Lord Himself FORGAVE me of those sins against Him.

    My natural born flesh, with the very good living soul that the Lord gave to me;
    became corrupted and sin against God, being in my corrupt flesh;

    But the Lord Himself FORGAVE me of those sins against Him.

    My flesh did NOT become SINLESS.
    My flesh DID become FORGIVEN, washed, sanctified, covered, crucified, justified, and kept with Christ Jesus, until His Day of Redemption.

    My soul did NOT become SINLESS.
    My soul DID become FORGIVEN, sanctified, restored, very good, BY the power of the Lord.

    My natural spirit did NOT become SINLESS.
    My natural spirit DID become FORGIVEN, sanctified, receiving of Gods SEED, quickened BY Christ who is Gods SEED.

    My natural heart did NOT become SINLESS.
    My natural heart DID become FORGIVEN, sanctified, circumcised, anew, and an acceptable place for the Lords Spirit to dwell within me.

    There is NOTHING whatsoever in my FLESH, (that is; FORGIVEN and JUSTIFIABLY dead to God)
    or my SOUL, (that is; FORGIVEN and restored by the Spirit of God)
    or my SPIRIT, (that is; FORGIVEN and quickened by the Seed of God)
    or my HEART, (that is; FORGIVEN and circumcised and made anew by the Power of God)

    THAT can EVER AGAIN SIN or STAND AGAINST GOD!

    I trusted to Believe in God, and He who is Faithful FORGAVE my SINS AGAINST HIM, and accepted ME giving HIM complete authority to CHANGE ME in the fashion as HE promised HE would.

    It is NOT a secret my FLESH, though it be SPIRITUALLY and JUSTIFIABLY DEAD, yet lives.
    It is NOT a secret the Lords Flesh LIVES, and I live in HIS BODY, as He has given me authority to do so.

    It is NOT a secret my FLESH MIND, still lives.
    It is NOT a secret WHY, less it be unknown to some.


    ....Foremost BECAUSE; The Lord DOES NOT MAKE ANY CHANGES TO OUR NATURAL MINDS!
    ....Also BECAUSE; my BLOOD, (which IS the life of natural flesh), still Flows maintaining the life of my natural flesh....(which, already was sentenced to die, and my blood (life) required By God)
    ....Also BECAUSE; the natural Blood life of a natural (AND CONVERTED MAN), is a man CHOSEN BY the Lord, to Be His servant, to SPEAK His Word to other NATURAL NON CONVERTED MEN, and fellowship WITH CONVERTED MEN.

    The Lord has PROVIDED ME WITH, ALL the necessary things to SERVE HIM, in the manner, that IS acceptable to Him.

    It is NOT secret, MY MIND, is not capable to KNOW ALL THINGS.
    It is NOT secret, MY MIND, is still natural, sustained by my natural BLOOD life.

    However it is ALSO not secret, I have a GREATER POWER (the Lords Spirit) within the thoughts of my spirit, in my heart, to SUPERSEDE the thoughts of MY MIND.

    BECAUSE, my MIND knows not all things ~ I may infringe, trespass, cause harm to ANOTHER MAN, his family, his property.

    However the Lord Himself provides the Knowledge and Understanding OF "HOW TO", justifiably, remedy such an occurrence that may arise.

    Which that also, should be no secret to any Converted man.
    To forgive trespasses of other men.
    And to ask other men for forgiveness when the other is trespassed against, along with compensation.

    Only God FORGIVES SIN.
    And God has ALREADY FORGIVEN ME for my TRANSGRESSIONS OF SIN AGAINST HIM.

    It is I who gave the Lord complete authority OVER ME, to KEEP ME FREED FROM SIN AGAINST HIM.
    It is I who TRUSTS the Lord is FAITHFUL, and KEEPS ME FAITHFUL TO HIM ONLY.
    It is I who SINS NO MORE, and have NO SHAME in saying what the Lord has done for me.

    I do NOT sin against men, nor do men sin against me.
    I do NOT have the authority to FORGIVE sin, nor do men have the authority to FORGIVE sin.

    "We"?
    Specifically ~ ALL natural born men are DEAD TO GOD.
    BECAUSE ~ A separation FROM GOD, IS DEAD TO GOD.
    Some men ~ REMAIN (non-converted) and DEAD TO GOD.
    Some men ~ Become (converted) and Dead, yet ALIVE IN CHRIST.

    Honesty is good.
    The honesty IS; as I just noted; ALL men are born in SIN. So yes, All shall have struggles with Sin.
    The honesty IS: a CONVERTED MAN, is forgiven and Freed from sin.
    ........................a NON-CONCERTED MAN, "IS NOT forgiven or Freed from sin".

    The honesty IS; WHEN a man has become Converted, Forgiven, Freed from sin, HE HAS FULFILLED the Scripture, and it no longer APPLIES to HIM.

    If you have read and studied Scripture you would know; JESUS came to earth in the LIKENESS of a man, to TEACH men, HOW TO BE, IN HIS LIKENESS.

    You should have learned ONE of the MAJOR things, of JESUS LIKENESS, was TO FULFILL Scripture.
    Once JESUS FULFILLED "a" Scripture, DID He "FULFILL" the same Scripture over and over?

    No. What JESUS fulfilled, was ACCOMPLISHED, was FINISHED.

    Isn't a man, who is CONVERTED, a man WHO has fulfilled Scripture that applied to him?
    Isn't a Converted man doing as JESUS taught to be LIKE HIM, fulfilling scripture, TO BE in HIS LIKENESS?

    I have fulfilled MANY Scriptures that applied to me, as Jesus taught, to become in HIS LIKENESS.

    When you are here, SPEAKING WITH, men you believe are CONVERTED, WHY are you QUOTING Scripture, THAT DOES NOT APPLY to a CONVERTED MAN?

    What utter nonsense for you to say to a CONVERTED man!

    1 John 1:
    [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    THAT scripture APPLIES to a man WHO SAYS HIS HAS NO SIN! Thus the truth is NOT in him.
    THAT scripture APPLIES to an ATHEIST, who does NOT believe in God, in Sin, thus does NOT believe he has sin.
    And NO DUH, the Truth is NOT IN HIM! Of course the TRUTH is not IN HIM ~ JESUS is the TRUTH.
    Jesus DOES NOT DWELL IN a man that DOES NOT BELIEVE IN HIM!

    How do you NOT KNOW, a CONVERTED MAN, has admitted HIS SIN, and become FORGIVEN HIS SINS?...... for you to presume......
    WHAT? He asked for forgiveness of SIN he didn't have?
    WHAT? He has Christ the Lord Jesus IN HIM, but ....
    WHAT? YOU think that JESUS, the TRUTH is NOT in a converted man?

    I would suggest, you learn WHAT scriptures CONVERTED MEN "HAVE FULFILLED", and stop trying to APPLY to them, Scriptures THAT DO NOT APPLY.

    I would further suggest, you learn the DIFFERENCE between:
    claiming to HAVE NO SIN, and claiming to BE FORGIVEN of SIN, and SIN NO MORE!

    IF you want to declare, YOU DO SIN.....that is your business, BUT THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO ME.
    MY Lord dwells IN ME, and I IN HIM.....and WE do not DWELL IN SIN!

    Again ignorance abounds.

    WHO claims a SINLESS life applies to them?
    Someone who claims they were born in sin, committed sin, was forgiven their sin, their sin is covered?
    OR someone who does not believe SIN exists, and therefore sin does not apply to them?
    That might apply to an ATHEIST, if he claims he doesn't believe in Sin, so therefore is sinless.
    But, I have not personally heard an atheist make that claim.
    Nor have I heard a CONVERTED man, who has admitted his sins, then claim the ridiculous claim he is SINLESS, or that his life is SINLESS.

    IF a converted mans LIFE was SINLESS....then WHY would a mans LIFE (which is his blood), be REQUIRED BY GOD?

    EVERY SINGLE MAN, converted or not, SHALL give his LIFE (blood) to GOD!
    NO natural born MAN IS SINLESS. ALL shall pay their LIFE (blood) to GOD!
    SOME choose to become forgiven, and GIVE their life (blood) to God.
    SOME choose to NOT become forgiven, but no matter God shall TAKE still KILL their life (blood).

    Gen 9
    [4] But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof
    Deut 13
    [23] the blood is the life
    Gen 9
    [5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require
    Gen 9
    [5] I require the life of man



    Why have you NOT ONE QUOTE of my own words SAYING SUCH A THING that you imply?

    Why is that? Oh RIGHT..... because I said NO SUCH THING, for you to QUOTE ME making such an IGNORANT CLAIM.

    So, as you go about IMPLYING I am a hypocrite....Sinless ..Let's be HONEST, as you noted you favor honesty...
    I didn't make that claim. That is YOUR CLAIM, trying to make it mine. So what would what you are doing be called? Honestly Testifying or Falsely Testifying?

    Been there done that. Then I became faithful to God and freed from sin. But I'll be glad to listen to your confessions and Scripturally show you with the Word of God, how to become Forgiven of your sins, Freed from sin and to become in Christ's LIKENESS, or if that does not fancy you, you can do what the LIKENESS of men do, who are separated from God.

    Need a Q-tip? Why not try LISTENING to what another says, instead of trying to SPEAK FOR THEM?

    I was born in sin.....
    I committed sin......
    My sins are forgiven....
    Now LISTEN CLOSELY.... "I SIN NO MORE".

    Let me repeat...I SIN NO MORE.

    SIN NO MORE.......
    is NOT saying....SINLESS....is NOT saying without sin....is NOT saying have no sin.

    He who IS SINLESS ~ has NEVER SINNED!
    He who IS WITHOUT SIN ~ has NEVER SINNED!
    He who HAS NO SIN ~ has NEVER SINNED!

    Pay attention ~ He who has sinned are NOT those things!

    He who HAS sinned, and IS forgiven, SINS NO MORE.

    Maybe you should keep studying Gods Word,
    and discover WHY a forgiven man SINS NO MORE...

    And then one MIGHT STOP making false testimonies, accusations, and trying to stuff "their words" in an others mouths, and simply allow others to make their own declaration WITH THEIR OWN WORDS!!

    There are thousands of schools in the US, perhaps you can make an appointment with one of the English teachers and have them explain the difference between....

    sinless,
    without sin,
    no sin,
    sin no more

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
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  15. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    I made this post on accident and now I can't delete it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  16. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Agent for Christ Supporter

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    There are two kinds of people.
    Those who justify wrong doing and those who seek to truly do right.
    This truly matters to God because God will render to every man according to his deeds.
    Did you accept Jesus as your Savior?
    Did you continue in His goodness?

    5 "...God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (Romans 2:5-12).
     
  17. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Active Member

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    The detail and precision that you answered with is wonderful. I appreciate your honesty and methodical development of perspective.

    All blessings to you, brother in Jesus,

    Grip Docility
     
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    "God, Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

    To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

    But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,

    of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

    But glory, honour, and peace,

    to every man that worketh good,

    to the Jew first,

    and also to the Gentile:
     
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  19. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    No God didn't, but you did.
    "Do good works all of the time"

    God gives us faith and it is the one thing required. We never rely on our faith. Our reliance is solely on Him.

    Jesus Himself taught me this in His Word.
    Not human reasoning, not a human showing me something in the Bible, God Himself.
     
  20. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Without seeing what 'God' taught,
    remember that Muslims and JWs and Mormons say the same thing,
    all while living contrary to God's Word.
     
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