The law before Moses?

[KSykes]

Completely agree. Why do most Christians turn their noses at The Seventh day sabbath, food laws, Gods holy days and say it was only for Jews since it was given only to them?

 

[KSykes]

Interesting question....

See Romans 5:12-14

I read that. What is your point about Romans 5?

 

[HARK!]

(CLV) Gn 1:28
Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them: (1) Be fruitful and increase; (2)fill the earth and (3)subdue it. (4)Hold sway over the fish of the sea (5)and over the flyer of the heavens, over (6)every domestic beast over all the earth and over (7)every animal that is moving on the earth.

Dietary

(CLV) Gn 1:29
And Elohim said: Since I have given you all seed-yielding herbage that is on the face of the entire earth, and every tree on which there is the fruit of a seed-yielding tree, it shall be yours for food.

 

[expos4ever]

deleted own post.

 

[expos4ever]

Completely agree. Why do most Christians turn their noses at The Seventh day sabbath, food laws, Gods holy days and say it was only for Jews since it was given only to them?

Well, for starters, the Law of Moses (e.g. food laws, festivals, 10 commandments, etc.) was given to Jews and Jews alone - I can argue the point but, to save time, I would invite you to see what Biblical scholars have to say. I will wager that all of them will agree that the Law of Moses was given to Jews and Jews only.

Now, some people will argue that since the New Testament teaches that all believers, whether Jew or Gentile, have essentially been glommed together as a new "Israel", then it would make sense for all of us to follow the Law of Moses. The problem with that is that there is another possibility - perhaps the Law of Moses has been done away with for all - both Jew and Gentile. And that is certainly what Paul believes:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[BobRyan]

Well, for starters, the Law of Moses (e.g. food laws, festivals, 10 commandments, etc.) was given to Jews and Jews alone -

regarding ... the promises of God.

so then in your view... you "are" or "Are not" under the "New Covenant"?

Jer 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[HARK!]

Well, for starters, the Law of Moses (e.g. food laws, festivals, 10 commandments, etc.) was given to Jews and Jews alone

Wrong, they were given to Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[Aussie Pete]

Did Gods instructions, law, ordinances, commandments exist before Moses?

No. God made a covenant with conditions with Noah. It was nothing like the Law given to Moses.

 

[expos4ever]

Wrong, they were given to Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

We can debate terminology but to avoid needless battles, I will agree that they were indeed given to Israel. The relevant point is that the Law of Moses is not a code for all humanity - it is only for the nation of Israel.

 

[HARK!]

We can debate terminology but to avoid needless battles, I will agree that they were indeed given to Israel. The relevant point is that the Law of Moses is not a code for all humanity - it is only for the nation of Israel.

If you're not in covenant with Yahshua; you'll die without the law; so it is written.

 

[BobRyan]

We can debate terminology but to avoid needless battles, I will agree that they were indeed given to Israel. The relevant point is that the Law of Moses is not a code for all humanity - it is only for the nation of Israel.

Do you think that Paul was in error in Eph 6:1-2 when he appeals to the Law of Moses?

 

[expos4ever]

Do you think that Paul was in error in Eph 6:1-2 when he appeals to the Law of Moses?

The fact that a particular moral command is given by Paul, and even if he lifts it directly from the Law of Moses, this certainly does not, by itself justify the conclusion that the Law of Moses remains in force.

Let's say there is something called the New Jersey Highway Act of 1975. And it makes speeding above 55 mph a crime. Well, the state of New Jersey could entirely scrap the New Jersey Highway Act of 1975 and replace it with the New Jersey Highway Act of 2020. And perhaps the new act will contain elements of old act. The old Act is still toast.

We know that the Law of Moses, as a written code is retired:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[expos4ever]

If you're not in covenant with Yahshua; you'll die without the law; so it is written.

What text are you referring to?

 

[HARK!]

The fact that a particular moral command is given by Paul, and even if he lifts it directly from the Law of Moses, this certainly does not, by itself justify the conclusion that the Law of Moses remains in force.

I like Yahshua.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

 

[HARK!]

What text are you referring to?

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'
(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'

 

[truthisfreedom2019]

There was a distinction between the men of Sodom and Abram and Lot. Genesis 13:13 "Now the men of Sodom were wicked exceedingly and sinners against the Lord." Abram and Lot was not like that. Lot was vexed by what he saw the people of Sodom doing. Living wickedly can be because of ignorance, but sinning against God is not. It means that they were given instruction of how they were to live by God in some way but they refused to follow. Abram lived in the way God desired. He knew the difference between wickedness and righteousness that is why he contended with God concerning the possible righteous in Sodom.

 

[HARK!]

Adultery

(CLV) Gn 20:3
But Elohim came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him: Behold, you are to die on account of the woman whom you have taken, for she is the spouse of a possessor.

(CLV) Gn 20:4
Now Abimelech, he had not gone near her, and he said: My Lord, are You going to kill even an unknowing and righteous nation?

(CLV) Gn 20:5
Did not he himself say to me, She is my sister? And moreover, did not she herself say, He is my brother? In the sincerity of my heart and in the innocence of my palms have I done this.

(CLV) Gn 20:6
The One, Elohim, replied to him in the dream: I too know that you have done this in the sincerity of your heart, and I was also keeping you back from sinning against Me. Therefore I did not allow you to touch her.

Interestingly, adultery is a sin against YHWH; even if you are not in covenant with him, even before Moses.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I read that. What is your point about Romans 5?

I was wondering how others understood it.
If I had a point, I would have made it!

Do you believe it means that from the time of Adam people were sinning but God did not hold them guilty of that sin? He had not, at that time, given any of the laws.

I just wonder if these could be the prisoners held captive until Jesus went to preach to them...
1 Peter 3:19-20
19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

 

[Dkh587]

“The Law”, is often interchangeably called the Law of Moses, and the Law of God. God gave it to Moses, whom then gave it to the Israelites.

Obviously, Israel Specific commandments would not have existed prior to Israel, but the whole law is not centered around Israel & the Exodus.

2 Chronicles 34:14

Hilkiah the priest found a book of the law of Yahweh given by Moses

Psalms 103:7

He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.

The contents/requirements of the Law of God/Moses existed in some form before it was written down by Moses and given to the Israelites

-the Sabbath was made holy at creation, and existed prior to the Israelites
-Noah knew The difference between clean and unclean animals
-Onan did not go into his sister in law after his brother died, thus God killed him for not continuing his brother’s lineage
-Abraham obeyed Gods “commandments, statutes and judgements”
-the Sodomites were wicked in God’s sight. Those who do not live according to God’s law are wicked

Psalms 119:53

Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.

Proverbs 28:4

They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.

Genesis 26:3-4

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Nehemiah 9:18

Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments

Psalms 147:19-20

He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. HalleluYah.

There is nothing to indicate that the “laws, statutes and commandments” given to Israel(Abraham’s children) are completely different from the “laws, statutes and commandments” given to Abraham(Israel’s father)

Exodus 20:6

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Did God suddenly change his commandments to a different, brand new set revealing them to the Israelites? We have no evidence of this.

 

[eleos1954]

Did Gods instructions, law, ordinances, commandments exist before Moses?

Yes the law did ... in fact the first to transgress the law were lucifer (satan) and the 1/3 of the angels in heaven

The first sin in the universe was pride and the first being to sin was Lucifer, an Arch angel who dwelled in the very presence of God in heaven. There are three key Scriptures that describe this tragic beginning of sin – Isaiah 14:12-18, Ezekiel 28:12-18, and Revelation 12:1-13.

Rather than going in to specific people (on earth) who sinned before Moses ... this verse says it all.

Sin is transgression of the law ..... and

Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

all of mankind, beginning with Adam and Eve and thereafter have sinned

so therefore law is in heaven as well as on earth.