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The law before Moses?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by KSykes, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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    Did Gods instructions, law, ordinances, commandments exist before Moses?
     
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  2. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good question! I applaud this thread.

    Did Adam sin?

    What is sin?

    (CLV) 1Jn 3:4
    Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.
     
  3. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Put the will of God before the will of man thus loving all as self.
     
  4. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Yes, but there was no "written" law, or any commandments given directly from God to us, like the single commandment that He gave our progenitors to obey in the Garden of God, "don't eat that apple".

    There is this however, that speaks of the fate of all who are outside of Christ, whether they have the written law or not. One thing seems certain, God will judge the reprobate on the basis of what he/she knows and understands, not on the basis of what they do not know and/or understand.

    Romans 2
    12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
    13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
    14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
    15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
    16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

    --David
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  5. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Interesting question....

    See Romans 5:12-14
     
  6. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    See post 5...
    Comments?

    Tomorrow....
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"
    Genesis 4 God says to Cain "Sin is crouching at your door but you must master it"

    Genesis 6 and 7 we see references to "clean and unclean animals" where the definition is given in Lev 11 as to what that means.

    In Genesis 2:1-3 God creates the seventh day Sabbath using specific language - and in Exodus 20:11 The legal code for the 4th commandment points directly at Genesis 2:1-3 to show when and why the Sabbath was created.

    And of course - I would forget to post this one -

     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  8. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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    I agree the law did exist before Moses...
    Genesis 26:5
    because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

    This was WAY before Moses.

    So, why do some Christians saw the laws were only for Jews?
     
  9. truthisfreedom2019

    truthisfreedom2019 New Member

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    Genesis 26:4-5 4“I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”
     
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  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    True. Instead of chiseling words in stone - God was speaking to Adam face to face.
     
  11. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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    AGREED
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    GENESIS 26:5
    [5] Because that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES, AND MY LAWS.

    The Hebrew words used for "LAWS" here is Torah. Before the written Word of God was the spoken Word of God. The TORAH includes all God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings, sin offerings) if God's LAW was broken.

    If God's people had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for atonement for sin (see LEVITICUS 1:4). So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the WRITTEN Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin (breaking God's commandments) was committed.

    Some examples...

    God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus says the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20).

    Jacob knew about SIN (breaking God's LAW) BEFORE Mt Sinia when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).

    When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).

    As time goes by God detroys mankind for evil and sin with a flood as well as Sodom and Gommorah with fire and the Epyptians with plagues *GENESIS 6:5-13; GENESIS 13:10-13; 18:20-33; 19:24; EXODUS 9:13-14. If there was no knowledge of sin there would be no punishment for it. God’s WORD is very clear that all of God’s Commandments were kept by God’s people before the written WORD through the Spoken WORD of GOD.

    Even EXODUS 16 proves that God’s people had God’s laws including God’s Sabbath before the written Word of God by the Spoken Word of God

    EXODUS 16:4-5 [4], Then said the LORD to Moses, BEHOLD, I WILL RAIN BREAD FROM HEAVEN FOR YOU; AND THE PEOPLE SHALL GO OUT AND GATHER A CERTAIN RATE EVERY DAY, THAT I MAY PROVE THEM, WHETHER THEY WILL WALK IN MY LAW, OR NO. [5], AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT ON THE SIXTH DAY THEY SHALL PREPARE THAT WHICH THEY BRING IN; AND IT SHALL BE TWICE AS MUCH AS THEY GATHER DAILY.

    This is in reference to God’s Sabbath law as the preparation day is the sixth day where God provides twice as much food and shown further in…

    EXODUS 16:23-28 [23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, TO MORROW IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH TO THE LORD: BAKE THAT WHICH YOU WILL BAKE TO DAY, AND SEETHE THAT YOU WILL SEETHE; AND THAT WHICH REMAINS OVER LAY UP FOR YOU TO BE KEPT UNTIL THE MORNING.

    [24], AND THEY LAID IT UP TILL THE MORNING, AS MOSES BADE: AND IT DID NOT STINK, NEITHER WAS THERE ANY WORM THEREIN.
    [25], AND MOSES SAID, EAT THAT TO DAY; FOR TO DAY IS A SABBATH TO THE LORD: TO DAY YOU SHALL NOT FIND IT IN THE FIELD.
    [26], SIX DAYS YOU SHALL GATHER IT; BUT ON THE SEVENTH DAY, WHICH IS THE SABBATH, IN IT THERE SHALL BE NONE.
    [27], And IT CAME TO PASS, THAT THERE WENT OUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THE SEVENTH DAY FOR TO GATHER, AND THEY FOUND NONE.
    [28]4, And the LORD said to Moses, HOW LONG REFUSE YOU TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS AND MY LAWS?

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    I am glad the major Christian denomination in the world are on record admitting that the moral law of God including all TEN of the commandments begin with Adam and Eve before the fall.

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    R.C Sproul,
    Matthew Henry,
    Thomas Watson
    Eastern Orthodox Catechism
    The Catholic Catechism.

    And of course 7th day groups

    Seventh-day Baptists
    Seventh-day Adventists
    (and 100's of others)
     
  14. truthisfreedom2019

    truthisfreedom2019 New Member

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    Genesis 6:9 says that Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God." Whatever was used to find blame he was fulfilling.
     
  15. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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    Yes, he was speaking face to face with Adam. Now, since Yeshua(JESUS)himself said no man has ever seen the Father at any time...
    John 1:18
    No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

    So, perhaps it was the pre-incarnante Yeshua that was talking with Adam and Abraham much later?
     
  16. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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    Agreed
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Agreed - It could have been.. though I think the context for John 1 is "man in his fallen state"
     
  18. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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    Yes, however no one comes Jesus unless the Father calls them. We see that in his walk on Earth when a great number of the Religious establishment of the day(Phariseees, Sadducee etc) did not recognize him as the Messiah. Gods timing is perfect
     
  19. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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  20. KSykes

    KSykes New Member

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