The last step challenge for the presidency

Speedwell

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Isnt that what they call hate speech???
No, it is using two perfectly respectable technical terms from political science to describe a particular politician. In this particular case I might think the use of "fascist" is borderline but just because the application of the term may be inaccurate doesn't mean it's hateful.
 
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Nithavela

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One thing I should point out to non-US people: In the end, having a vote isn't enough. There needs to be some process to certify the results. Ours is unnecessarily complex, for historical reasons. But governors, courts, and state secretaries of state have all done their jobs, regardless of their parties. While I expect some individuals to object in the joint session, there is no reason to think that the US Senate will fail to do their duty.
How many democrat house bills are they currently sitting on?
 
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Triumvirate

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What is truly curious is the laws in your country. "Proposals to prosecute individuals for hate crimes based on what they discuss in their own homes need to be more widely debated, free speech organisations have said." At what point will you wake up to the fact that you have lost your free speech rights? UK lawyers uneasy about plan to prosecute hate speech a
What is truly curious is the laws in your country. "Proposals to prosecute individuals for hate crimes based on what they discuss in their own homes need to be more widely debated, free speech organisations have said." At what point will you wake up to the fact that you have lost your free speech rights? UK lawyers uneasy about plan to prosecute hate speech at home

No, excuse me, Clint, let's stick to one topic at a time please.

Why did you elect to link the topic of hate speech laws and fascists in such a manner? Hate speech has always been defined in terms of protected classes, not "anything one disagrees with", as there are a finite number of protected classes.

Fascists are not a protected class, and this is a good thing - yes?
 
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muichimotsu

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If he cares about what's good for the country he will fight for the win. Since you brought up fascist can you please explain the new updated definition to me? It's hard to keep up with all these new definitions.
No, he will try to not be a petty child and accept that the state of this election is not reliant on his paranoid delusions

If you refuse to even consider that he is a fascist or proto fascist at the very least, then you're being willfully ignorant and prefer to worship your idol as if they can do no wrong or you don't even care that he does because of your own proto fascist ideals where country is more important than the rights of the citizens to have a democratic civil election instead of a coup by an autocrat
 
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muichimotsu

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Isnt that what they call hate speech???
Not at all, because, as others pointed out, political groups are not protected in terms of hate speech, that's a category error on its face.

And it's also not slander or libel, because by even stretched ideas of fascism or nationalism, Trump emblematically represents them in his rhetoric and attempts at "governing" America by this idea that if you don't support the country 100%, you're a traitor, which is patently authoritarian and regressive
 
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disciple Clint

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No, it is using two perfectly respectable technical terms from political science to describe a particular politician. In this particular case I might think the use of "fascist" is borderline but just because the application of the term may be inaccurate doesn't mean it's hateful.
Sounds like more of the double standard. Funny how if something is objectionable to a liberal it is hate speech but not the other way around.
 
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disciple Clint

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No, excuse me, Clint, let's stick to one topic at a time please.

Why did you elect to link the topic of hate speech laws and fascists in such a manner? Hate speech has always been defined in terms of protected classes, not "anything one disagrees with", as there are a finite number of protected classes.

Fascists are not a protected class, and this is a good thing - yes?
Dancing around the issue a bit? I understand, carry on.
 
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disciple Clint

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Not at all, because, as others pointed out, political groups are not protected in terms of hate speech, that's a category error on its face.

And it's also not slander or libel, because by even stretched ideas of fascism or nationalism, Trump emblematically represents them in his rhetoric and attempts at "governing" America by this idea that if you don't support the country 100%, you're a traitor, which is patently authoritarian and regressive
Would it surprise you to know that about half of America disagrees with you?
 
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mmksparbud

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If he cares about what's good for the country he will fight for the win. Since you brought up fascist can you please explain the new updated definition to me? It's hard to keep up with all these new definitions.


How do you "fight for the win" when he lost by over 6 million votes?! There is nothing to fight over---he lost and his ego can not take it. His ego is not the concern of the American people. It's a personal problem of his and we shouldn't have to pay for it.
 
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SarahsKnight

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How do you "fight for the win" when he lost by over 6 million votes?! There is nothing to fight over---he lost and his ego can not take it. His ego is not the concern of the American people. It's a personal problem of his and we shouldn't have to pay for it.

Amen to that. It's amazing that so many Trump supporters here do not seem to see this as being nothing more than about Trump's ego.
 
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Arc F1

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How do you "fight for the win" when he lost by over 6 million votes?! There is nothing to fight over---he lost and his ego can not take it. His ego is not the concern of the American people. It's a personal problem of his and we shouldn't have to pay for it.

Why aren't the headlines about Biden getting more votes than Obama and how racist this is? Do democrats support an old white man more than they do a black man?
 
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Arc F1

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No, he will try to not be a petty child and accept that the state of this election is not reliant on his paranoid delusions

If you refuse to even consider that he is a fascist or proto fascist at the very least, then you're being willfully ignorant and prefer to worship your idol as if they can do no wrong or you don't even care that he does because of your own proto fascist ideals where country is more important than the rights of the citizens to have a democratic civil election instead of a coup by an autocrat

Then just call me ignorant if it will make you feel better.
 
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mmksparbud

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Why aren't the headlines about Biden getting more votes than Obama and how racist this is? Do democrats support an old white man more than they do a black man?


He got more votes for the simple reason that they were not voting for him as much as they were voting against Trump! That is the bottom line, the American people are fed up with Trump and do not want him. Die hard Trumpers who worship the man are willing to say God put him in power, but are not willing to accept the will of God in choosing to take power away from him. What in the world is this stupid racist thing?? You have 2 old white guys here----Obama has been gone for 4 years and you are comparing this election to a black man and a white man??!! Seems the racist is speaking. The only one who is trying to steal the election is the one that lost it!! Some people prefer a narcistic, old pervert to lead them by the nose than a more humble old guy just trying to do the best he can. Let God do His thing with this fight---God hates the proud and humbles them. The proud may not be just Trump, but those who reject the will of God unless it matches theirs.
 
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Tanj

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Interesting update on the OP (not the entirely derailing off topic posts about hate speech)

There's legal opinion that suggests that if there were a dispute in congress on Jan 6th, the choices for electors would be Biden or Pelosi.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Why aren't the headlines about Biden getting more votes than Obama and how racist this is? Do democrats support an old white man more than they do a black man?
Because he didn’t run against Obama, the election was between him and Trump and when compared to Trump a majority of voters felt Biden’s experience and calm demeanor would be a dramatic improvement over the incumbent. That old white man was the Vice President for America’s first African American President who also nominated the country’s first African American Vice President. He’s more than proven his willingness to work with and give a platform to minority voices.
 
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muichimotsu

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Then just call me ignorant if it will make you feel better.
Big difference between ignorance in a way that can be corrected with intellectual humility and that which is willful and intransigent because you can cope with the cognitive dissonance by denial, projection, etc. Which is a more mature approach to the situation?
 
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muichimotsu

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Why aren't the headlines about Biden getting more votes than Obama and how racist this is? Do democrats support an old white man more than they do a black man?
Because it isn't racism that he got more votes than Obama, the voting process is not racist, the only potential racism that can come about in relation to voting is gerrymandering and such that disenfranchises people of color and makes it harder for them to vote.

But the voting itself being a higher turnout than either of Obama's presidential runs is just because Trump polarized things so much and the populace was motivated to vote AGAINST the incompetent bungler who thought the country should be treated like his many failed business ventures.
 
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muichimotsu

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Would it surprise you to know that about half of America disagrees with you?
In the sense that they're wrong? No, because popularity doesn't make something right, so you're already going down a rabbit hole you really shouldn't to try and make a rational point.
 
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Belk

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Why aren't the headlines about Biden getting more votes than Obama and how racist this is? Do democrats support an old white man more than they do a black man?

Because unlike your straw man views of left leaning positions, their real positions are not irrational.
 
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disciple Clint

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No, he will try to not be a petty child and accept that the state of this election is not reliant on his paranoid delusions

If you refuse to even consider that he is a fascist or proto fascist at the very least, then you're being willfully ignorant and prefer to worship your idol as if they can do no wrong or you don't even care that he does because of your own proto fascist ideals where country is more important than the rights of the citizens to have a democratic civil election instead of a coup by an autocrat
before the term fascist get applied to anyone let us consider who is calling for and endorsing the burning of businesses, the assaulting of police officers, and the harassment of innocent people who are doing nothing more than walking down the street or eating dinner.
 
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