THE LAST DAYS!

[sovereigngrace]

Time statements are consistently used, literally through the Bible, but the language of the “Day of the Lord” is consistently metaphorical throughout the Bible. There is not one example of “The Day of the Lord” language, ie: coming on the clouds, with fire, the Shout, The Trumpet, etc ever being fulfilled literally.

The sound of the trumpet ushers in the one final future coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Repeated Scripture shows it to be "the end"! It is a time when God raises all the righteous and the wicked. It is a time when He judges mankind. Whilst Matthew 24, Mark 13:24-27, 31-32, 1 Thessalonians 4, 1 Corinthians 15 and the book of Revelation clearly and expressly refer to the coming of Christ, there is no seven-year tribulation or third coming of Christ mentioned or intimated anywhere in these passages, or elsewhere in Scripture. Rather, Scripture shows us that Christ comes “with” and “for” His elect (the redeemed of God) at His one final Coming.

Let us look at the evidence!

Matthew 24:29-31

Matthew 24:29-31 refers to this same trumpet. It is a parallel text. Jesus says of His Coming, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (erchomai) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and ‘they shall gather together’ [or episunago] his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

This is referring to the exact same event as is described in 1 Thessalonians 4. It is the Coming of the Lord that is signalled by the sound of the last trump and the uniting of the elect both on earth and in heaven. Christ tells us that the angels “shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” This agrees with Paul’s assertion in 1 Thessalonians 4 that Christ will come with and for His saints at His Coming. Those saints that the angels gather in heaven are the "dead in Christ," those that are gathered from the four winds of the earth are 'the live in Christ'. This is describing the same event. Moreover, this passage locates the catching away at the end of the tribulation, not seven years before it. There is no 7-year tribulation period mentioned in Matthew 24:29-30, or anywhere else for that matter.

Mark 13:24-27, 31-32

Jesus repeats that truth in the parallel passage in Mark 13:24-27, 31-32: “in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming (erchomai) in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall ‘gather together’ [or episunago] his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven ... Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

The first thing we should note here is that Jesus tells us that the “Coming” of the Lord and the gathering (i.e. catching away) of the saints occurs after the tribulation. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 and this correlate and negate the Pretrib argument that the “gathering” (i.e. catching away) of the saints occurs before the tribulation period. Not only does He gather the living elect “from the four winds... of the earth” but He also gathers His elect from “the uttermost part of heaven.” Jesus comes “with” and “for” His saints. This challenges the popular Pretrib theory that Christ is simply coming “for” His saints the second time and coming “with” his saints the third time (7yrs later).

1 Corinthians 15: 22-24, 51-53

What is more, not only does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and Matthew 24:29-30 correlate, but we get further detail in 1 Corinthians 15: 22-24, 51-53. There Paul says of this final Coming, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his Coming (parousia). Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down (katargeésee or abolished) all rule and all authority and power ... Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

This text shows us the catching away of the saints at the second coming. It also shows us that this is indeed the end.

Scripture complementing Scripture is one of the great proofs of truth and means of enlightenment. That is what we are looking at when it comes to the trumpet sound that accompanies the Coming of Christ.

Here again we see the two distinct groups of redeemed mentioned who will be finally unified at Christ’s one final Coming. When Paul says “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed” he is saying that the dead in Christ will be resurrected with new bodies but the live in Christ will be instantly “changed.” Those that are alive do not need resurrected as they don’t die. They just need transformed from mortality to immortality. Paul explains it as: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” The “dead in Christ” are gathered from “one end of heaven to the other” and come with Christ to be united with their new spiritual bodies. The ‘live in Christ’ on the other hand are gathered together from “the four winds” of earth and are caught up together with them after instantly receiving their new bodies. Collectively the redeemed are made one in the act of glorification. This ushers in the end.

The word rendered "last" in “last trump" is the Greek word eschatos meaning end, last, farthest or final. This negates the Pretrib idea of a further trumpet seven yrs later. We are therefore looking at the final trumpet sound at the one final Coming of Christ. What is more, by clear implication, if the last trump relates to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ there must be others that precede it. Revelation seems to support this weighty inference.

The Coming of the Lord, described in this reading, is here carefully located at “the end.” In fact, the whole tenure of the passage is distinctly pointing to a climactic time in history when God separates righteousness and wickedness forever. It is the occasion approaching when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power.” Simultaneously, the glorification of the kingdom of God sees the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. It is the end-game for Satan and the conclusion of his evil efforts to obstruct the plan of God for mankind. Wickedness has finally and eternally been abolished.1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us that “all rule and all authority and power” are finally “put down” or katargeésee or abolished at the “Coming” or parousia of the Lord, which is, as we have established, confirmed in the next sentence as “the end.” The kingdom of God is finally and eternally presented “up,” whereas the kingdom of darkness is finally and eternally “put down.” This all-consummating last day that ushers in the end (or completion) of all things.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 confirms this saying: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the Coming [parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

This is a record of Christ’s one and only future Coming. This reading describes how Christ comes “with” and “for” His saints the next time. Verse 14 of our reading explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Those living believers will be “caught up” to meet Jesus when He appears. This is the final uniting of the elect on earth (the live in Christ) and those in heaven (the dead in Christ). It is accompanied by the great sound of the trump ushering in the end. The word rendered “remain” in our King James Version (which relates to those that are alive at Christ’s Coming) is the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Thus, we can take from this reading that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving. These are tribulation saints.

This Coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s Coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this Coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

Pretribbers have to divorce 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 from other similar passages that refer to the coming of Christ with the trumpet of God. For them to do otherwise would totally demolish their doctrine.

 

[sovereigngrace]

In Acts 2:15, Peter quotes the prophecy of Joel 2:28f about the last days and emphatically says: “This is that” which was spoken by the prophet Joel.

“This is that” does NOT mean “this is not that!”

Peter not only affirmed the last days had arrived in the first century, he repeated it in Acts 3. He said that all of the prophets from Samuel forward, “foretold these days” (Acts 3:24).

Hebrews 9:26 deals a crippling blow to the idea that the last days are yet future. The writer says Jesus, “has appeared once, at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”

The question is at the end of what age did Jesus appear?

He surely did not appear at the end of the Christian age.

Jesus appeared under the Law (Gal 4:4), in the fullness of time. Thus, he appeared in the last days of the age of the Law, the last days of Israel, the last days of the Jewish age.

Paul insisted he was living in the end of the age (1 Cor 10:11 and Heb 1:1).

If the Jewish age was to end and the Christian age has no end, what age was about to end? (Heb 1:1; Js 5:3; 1Pet 1:20; Jude 18; 2Pet 3; 1 Jn 2:18)

What last days were they living in?

Time statements are consistently used, literally through the Bible, but the language of the “Day of the Lord” is consistently metaphorical throughout the Bible. There is not one example of “The Day of the Lord” language, ie: coming on the clouds, with fire, the Shout, The Trumpet, etc ever being fulfilled literally.

Revelation

The seven trumpets outlined in Revelation chapters 8 to 10 are the only set of prophetic trumpets in Scripture. In the light of the explicit teaching and consistent pattern relating to the last trump elsewhere in the New Testament, and in order for what I am presenting to be true, accurate, compatible and complete (and all truth must fulfil this demanding criteria), the last trumpet in Revelation – number seven – must be a clear, vivid picture of the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. When the Bible student carefully analyses the graphic descriptive detail of the seventh trumpet in Revelation in the light of other like Scripture he is left in no doubt to its subject matter and its startling cohesion with other prophetic readings. The last trumpet outlined in Revelation 10 correlates in every detail with the same last trumpet outlined in other New Testament passages and a beautiful symbolic picture of the one final glorious Second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 10:1-4 declares, describing the seventh trumpet, “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.”

The symbolism and authority surrounding this great heavenly angel proves beyond a doubt that it is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ and a picture of His glorious Second coming. Firstly, we can see the angel comes clothed with a cloud. Significantly, the Lord prophesied of His return, “for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” Please refer also to Mark 14:61-62, Acts 1:9-11, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 1:7).

Secondly, the angel comes crowned with a rainbow. The rainbow crowned upon this great angel’s head reminds us that we serve a mighty covenant keeping God. It is clearly a marvellous symbol of providential nature of God and His faithfulness. None but Christ would be qualified to adorn such a symbol, being the bodily manifestation of the living holy God. We see the same symbolic rainbow surrounding Christ when John was caught up in the Spirit into heaven in Revelation 4 to receive the revelation about the Church and the end times. John explicitly says, “there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald” (v3).

Thirdly, the angel's face shines as sun. Malachi 4:2 confirms our Lord is “the sun of righteousness.” Fourthly, the angel comes with fire. Jesus said, in Luke 17:29-30, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.” This agrees with Revelation 19, 2 Peter 3 and countless other similar texts that show this fiery end to the tribulation period. Finally, the angel cries “with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth” Christ is symbolically likened unto a Lion in Revelation 5. He is called “the lion of the tribe of Juda, the root of David.”

It seems quite evident that we are looking at the one and only last trump which sounds at Christ solitary future Coming, which witnesses the end of the tribulation. This is in stark contrast to the weak claims made by our Pretrib brethren over the years that Revelation 4:1 is a record of a secret rapture, when it is in fact a simple record of John being caught up in the Spirit into heaven 2,000 yrs ago.

Our understanding is further reinforced by the detail attached to this reading in Revelation 10:5-7. It says of last trumpet, “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

The unquestionable finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump – the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign for ever and ever.”

Revelation 11:15 also makes reference to the seventh angel with the last trump, again being in complete agreement with consistent New Testament teaching (including the conclusion of the second parallel in Revelation 10) on this single final Second Advent, saying, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

This is the end of the old temporal sin-cursed order and the introduction of the new eternal glorified order. Also, the undoubted finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump – the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” not for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.” Those who reject such concrete evidence do so (in the main) in order to support the pretribulationist doctrine. In doing so they oppose the clear truth of God’s Word rather than those who firmly hold the truth.

Revelation 11:18 concludes in climactic detail, saying, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest (1) give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest (2) destroy them which destroy the earth.”

Notably, the “wrath of God” here is shown to “come” (erchomai Strong’s 2064) at the last trumpet. This indeed is the day of the Lord. This is the time when the dead are finally judged. It is the event when the “saints” receive their “reward” and correspondingly the ungodly it says God will “destroy.” Revelation 11:18 basically describes the judgment that accompanies the final or last trumpet.

Passage after passage knits perfectly together showing that the tribulation period ends with the one final climactic future Coming of Christ. The righteous are rescued immediately before God’s wrath is poured out upon all those left behind.

Whilst this is a glorious day for God’s elect it will be a day of ultimate terror for the wicked when they realise that they have missed God final opportunity and the door of grace has been slammed in their face forever.

Joel 2

Joel refers also to that great final day when the trumpet sound will announce the end of time, the rescue of the saints, the destruction of the wicked and the elements.

Joel 2:1-3 says, “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.”

This is a day like no other. This fiery day of complete destruction is shown to be an impending day (“it is nigh at hand”) that will evidently destroy this planet along with the wicked. The appearance of Christ will leave nothing of corruption standing.

 

[claninja]

In all 43 out of 43 biblical references. Check them out! The word carries the same import as our English word approach[es].

I have a hard time believing your claim that "eggizo", which has a definition of near, means the total opposite in all 43 uses in the NT.

From strong's From eggus; to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach -- approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.

Some examples of these "43" uses that show you are wrong:

1.) As an Amil, you don't believe the kingdom was inaugurated in the 1st century?
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”a

2.) So Jesus didn't actually come near Jerusalem, but was far from Jerusalem?
Matthew 21:1 Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives

3.) So Jesus wasn't anywhere near the city when he wept over it?
Luke 19:24 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it,

4.) So the Passover wasn't actually near, but far off still?
Luke 21:1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover.

In order to support your claim that eggizo can mean far off, can your provide even one example where eggizo means the polar opposite of its definition?

Most open-minded objective Christians grasp this. Your Preterist theology will not let you go there.

The Bible sometimes even uses the words “hour” or “day” in a general non-literal sense to describe a time, age or era. But, again, the setting and duration of that period can only be definitely identified by observing the detail that continues to occur throughout that given time-span. For example: Jesus said in John 5:25 Jesus taught: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming [Gr. hōra erchomai), and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” No one would surely insist in interpreting this as a literal 60 minutes. What is more, what is attributed to that “hour” lasts throughout the extent of the mentioned “hour” – namely spiritual resurrection. Christ here was simply saying ‘from this time forth’.

I John 2:18 describes the last days period introduced by Christ 2000 years ago, warning: “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time [Gr. eschatos hōra or last hour].” It would be wrong to view this as speaking of a single hour. That is not remotely the sense or meaning. It is rather speaking about the intra-Advent period. This is a period that will continue to the coming of Christ, as other Scripture shows antichrist operating right up until the end.

This doesn't address that God can in fact tell us when things are near and/or far off.

Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”

Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I have a hard time believing your claim that "eggizo", which has a definition of near, means the total opposite in all 43 uses in the NT.

From strong's From eggus; to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach -- approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.

Some examples of these "43" uses that show you are wrong:

1.) As an Amil, you don't believe the kingdom was inaugurated in the 1st century?
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”a

2.) So Jesus didn't actually come near Jerusalem, but was far from Jerusalem?
Matthew 21:1 Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives

3.) So Jesus wasn't anywhere near the city when he wept over it?
Luke 19:24 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it,

4.) So the Passover wasn't actually near, but far off still?
Luke 21:1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover.

In order to support your claim that eggizo can mean far off, can your provide even one example where eggizo means the polar opposite of its definition?



This doesn't address that God can in fact tell us when things are near and/or far off.

Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”

Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

It means "approaching." That fits every single reference in the New Testament. He never told us exactly how long it would be till His return. From Christ's perspective 2000 years it's just like two days.

 

[Jipsah]

Jesus referred to the generation present when the fig tree budded, that is: when Judah once again occupies Jerusalem.

That generation's getting kind of long in the tooth, aren't they?

 

[claninja]

It means "approaching." That fits every single reference in the New Testament.

Correct, it can mean approaching. But when is the word approach ever used for something far away in distance or time? Can you provide an example?

If I live in New york and step eastward into my backyard, it would be appropriate to say I am approaching california? No, that is not how the word approach is used. If I was on the phone with a friend and stepped eastward into my New york back yard and told the person I was speaking to on the phone that I was approaching california, that would be a lie.

Approaching something is associated with literal nearness. You can't just change the definition of words to suit an eschatological bias.

He never told us exactly how long it would be till His return.

But he did say "this generation" would not pass away until all the things of the olivet discourse took place.

Matthew 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place

From Christ's perspective 2000 years it's just like two days.

And yet God can still tell us when things are near or far off.

Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”

Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Correct, it can mean approaching. But when is the word approach ever used for something far away in distance or time? Can you provide an example?

If I live in New york and step eastward into my backyard, it would be appropriate to say I am approaching california? No, that is not how the word approach is used. If I was on the phone with a friend and stepped eastward into my New york back yard and told the person I was speaking to on the phone that I was approaching california, that would be a lie.

Approaching something is associated with literal nearness. You can't just change the definition of words to suit an eschatological bias.

We are talking about a unique event. Jesus makes it clear that no one knows the day or the hour of His return, so He counsels every generation (including the one 2000 years ago) to always be watching and ready. Every generation should always be expectant. The return of Christ is indeed approaching, only we do not know when.

But he did say "this generation" would not pass away until all the things of the olivet discourse took place.

Matthew 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place

I believe He was talking about the Jewish race. They still continue, and will do until they say of that final day: "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" (Mat 23:39).

And yet God can still tell us when things are near or far off.

Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”

Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

When it comes to His return we are exhorted to always be prepared. The closeness is relative, because we are talking about One who lives in eternity.

 

[claninja]

We are talking about a unique event. Jesus makes it clear that no one knows the day or the hour of His return, so He counsels every generation (including the one 2000 years ago) to always be watching and ready. Every generation should always be expectant. The return of Christ is indeed approaching, only we do not know when.

So you can't provide any examples when "approach" is used for far off distances and/or time......?

You are entitled to your opinion, but until you can provide evidence or scripture that specifically shows 'eggizo' refers to a polar opposite meaning, that's all you have is your opinion biased on your eschatological belief.

Futurists and or partial futurists like to take a lot of scripture literally but for some reason when it comes to the word 'near' it means the total opposite of near.

I believe He was talking about the Jewish race. They still continue, and will do until they say of that final day: "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" (Mat 23:39).

But that belief would be wrong. There is a greek word for race: genos. Genos is NOT used in matthew 23:34.

Genea, however, is used in matthew 23:34. In all instances its use is associated with peoples living at the same time. It is never used as race only, without being associated with peoples living at the same time.

Even many dispensationalists, who once agreed with scofield that genea means race, are now distancing from that belief. the many dispensationalists on this forum that I have encountered believe it means generation, but just a future generation and not the one standing in front of Jesus.

When it comes to His return we are exhorted to always be prepared. The closeness is relative, because we are talking about One who lives in eternity.

Again, God can appropriately communicate to his people when things are far off or near.

Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”

Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

 

[sovereigngrace]

So you can't provide any examples when "approach" is used for far off distances and/or time......?

You are entitled to your opinion, but until you can provide evidence or scripture that specifically shows 'eggizo' refers to a polar opposite meaning, that's all you have is your opinion biased on your eschatological belief.

Futurists and or partial futurists like to take a lot of scripture literally but for some reason when it comes to the word 'near' it means the total opposite of near.



But that belief would be wrong. There is a greek word for race: genos. Genos is NOT used in matthew 23:34.

Genea, however, is used in matthew 23:34. In all instances its use is associated with peoples living at the same time. It is never used as race only, without being associated with peoples living at the same time.

Even many dispensationalists, who once agreed with scofield that genea means race, are now distancing from that belief. the many dispensationalists on this forum that I have encountered believe it means generation, but just a future generation and not the one standing in front of Jesus.



Again, God can appropriately communicate to his people when things are far off or near.

Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”

Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

I have no difficulty preaching that the coming of the Lord "approaches" from the pulpit. But it could be 2000 years away. But it could also equally be tonight. We are constantly admonished to be waiting and ready. The word “approaching” is broad enough to allow for that type of understanding.

2 Peter 3:3-9 declares: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.”

Today is the day when sinners are saved. It is a day when righteousness and unrighteousness co-exist. But there is a day when salvation will terminate and perfection will be ushered in. salvation terminates at the Second Coming.

The seeming delay in the destruction of wicked men in our day is similarly presented in 2 Peter 3 as “the longsuffering of God.” This would suggest that our day is the final day of salvation. Plainly, “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.” But what is the reason for the longsuffering of God in our day? It is the exact same as it was in Noah’s day.

Peter succinctly supplies an answer: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). Simply put, His prolonged absence is actually for the purpose of “salvation.” God’s heart is to save souls. Man has been given 2,000 years to encounter God in a real personal lasting intimate way. This comes through repentance. God’s heart is not to damn men, they damn themselves by their own pride and stubbornness. The apparent delay in Christ’s Coming is actually evidence of His gracious nature and the fact that He wishes to save rather than destroy.

 

[claninja]

I have no difficulty preaching that the coming of the Lord "approaches" from the pulpit. But it could be 2000 years away. But it could also equally be tonight. We are constantly admonished to be waiting and ready. The word “approaching” is broad enough to allow for that type of understanding.

2 Peter 3:3-9 declares: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.”

Today is the day when sinners are saved. It is a day when righteousness and unrighteousness co-exist. But there is a day when salvation will terminate and perfection will be ushered in. salvation terminates at the Second Coming.

The seeming delay in the destruction of wicked men in our day is similarly presented in 2 Peter 3 as “the longsuffering of God.” This would suggest that our day is the final day of salvation. Plainly, “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.” But what is the reason for the longsuffering of God in our day? It is the exact same as it was in Noah’s day.

Peter succinctly supplies an answer: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). Simply put, His prolonged absence is actually for the purpose of “salvation.” God’s heart is to save souls. Man has been given 2,000 years to encounter God in a real personal lasting intimate way. This comes through repentance. God’s heart is not to damn men, they damn themselves by their own pride and stubbornness. The apparent delay in Christ’s Coming is actually evidence of His gracious nature and the fact that He wishes to save rather than destroy.

Your opinion is noted, but it is still not backed up by any examples where eggizo/approach means the polar opposite of its definition.

If we disagree on subject A, using evidence that we can agree upon can help support your case for your position on subject A.

For example: subject A = what is the meaning of nearness in regards to the 2nd coming. I hold it to mean literal nearness, in that the 1st century audience expected it. You believe it has a broader definition and doesn't necessarily have to mean literal nearness.

I provided examples where it means literal nearness.

You have provided ZERO examples where it doesn't mean literal nearness.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Your opinion is noted, but it is still not backed up by any examples where eggizo/approach means the polar opposite of its definition.

If we disagree on subject A, using evidence that we can agree upon can help support your case for your position on subject A.

For example: subject A = what is the meaning of nearness in regards to the 2nd coming. I hold it to mean literal nearness, in that the 1st century audience expected it. You believe it has a broader definition and doesn't necessarily have to mean literal nearness.

I provided examples where it means literal nearness.

You have provided ZERO examples where it doesn't mean literal nearness.

I have showed various Scripture pertaining to the second coming that prove that. The Greek word works in every single NT reference. It can mean nearness/immediate or approaching in the future/impending. It is a broad word.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Your opinion is noted, but it is still not backed up by any examples where eggizo/approach means the polar opposite of its definition.

If we disagree on subject A, using evidence that we can agree upon can help support your case for your position on subject A.

For example: subject A = what is the meaning of nearness in regards to the 2nd coming. I hold it to mean literal nearness, in that the 1st century audience expected it. You believe it has a broader definition and doesn't necessarily have to mean literal nearness.

I provided examples where it means literal nearness.

You have provided ZERO examples where it doesn't mean literal nearness.

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

What was this talking about?

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

What was this talking about?

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

 

[claninja]

I have showed various Scripture pertaining to the second coming that prove that. The Greek word works in every single NT reference. It can mean nearness/immediate or approaching in the future/impending. It is a broad word.

Then you do not know how to have a debate. Eggizo means nearness. You all of the sudden change it to mean the complete opposite of its definition. Since we disagree on the meaning of Eggizo in this specific instance (2nd coming), you should be easily able to provide other examples where Eggizo is used for far away manners of distance and time in order to support your belief. So far you have not done this.

Let's say I believe the sky is green, but you would like to convince me that it is blue. Simply stating it is blue is not evidence, nor convincing. But if you can show me other examples things that are blue, such as the ocean or a flower, in which I agree with you, you can then say look, the ocean/flower is the same color as the the sky, thus providing a convincing argument that the sky is in fact blue like the ocean or a flower.

So, can you provide even one example, outside of the 2nd coming, where eggizo is used of far away manners of distance and or time, to support your position that it means the complete opposite of its definition in regards to the 2nd coming.

 

[claninja]

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

What was this talking about?

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

What was this talking about?

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

What was this talking about?

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

What was this talking about?

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about?

as a partial preterist I believe these all refer to the 1st century coming judgement of Christ, thus the definition of eggizo as literal nearness remains unchanged for my position.

again can you provide any non 2nd coming uses of eggizo To mean far off in time or distance?

 

[sovereigngrace]

as a partial preterist I believe these all refer to the 1st century coming judgement of Christ, thus the definition of eggizo as literal nearness remains unchanged for my position.

again can you provide any non 2nd coming uses of eggizo To mean far off in time or distance?

Regardless of what your teachers have told you, these all refer to a future second coming.

It is quite ironic that you are quick to rubbish my interpretation of “impending” or “approaching” yet you are quick and comfortable to stretch out the word to mean 40 years down the road. That is hardly imminent. Isn't that convenient? You’re trying to force a manufactured meaning on this word on the sacred text in order to support Preterism. There’s no way that you could interpret a 40-years wait as imminent.

 

[claninja]

Regardless of what your teachers have told you, these all refer to a future second coming.

It is quite ironic that you are quick to rubbish my interpretation of “impending” or “approaching” yet you are quick and comfortable to stretch out the word to mean 40 years down the road. That is hardly imminent. Isn't that convenient? You’re trying to force a manufactured meaning on this word on the sacred text in order to support Preterism. There’s no way that you could interpret a 40-years wait as imminent.

Romans, Hebrews, James, nor 1 Peter were not written 40 years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Romans, Hebrews, James, nor 1 Peter were not written 40 years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem.

I see you conveniently left out Luke 21:28 from your response. What you force on Christ's words in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 disproves your argument!!! So that alone demolishes your doctrine!!! Whether it was 40 years+, 30, 20 or 10 reinforces my point. There was no immediate fulfilment. The word does not require such an interpretation, as the vast overwhelming body of scholars over the years held.

The Preterist theory requires this. They must reinterpret Holy Writ.

 

[Jipsah]

2 Peter 3:3-9 declares: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)?

True. But no one hear has said anything remotely like that, have they?
If you're using that to somehow try and demonstrate that our Lord's words to His disciples at Mt. Olivet were not fulfilled in the lifetimes of those to whom He was speaking, it didn't work.

 

[sovereigngrace]

True. But no one hear has said anything remotely like that, have they?
If you're using that to somehow try and demonstrate that our Lord's words to His disciples at Mt. Olivet were not fulfilled in the lifetimes of those to whom He was speaking, it didn't work.

God's truth speaks for itself and is crystal clear!

 

[keras]

That generation's getting kind of long in the tooth, aren't they?

Actually, as one born before 1948, my teeth are shorter and require very expensive dental treatment!
However, I confidently expect to see it all.
I base that confidence on Jesus Words in Luke 13:32, where He said He would be working for two 'days' and on the third He will gain His reward. Confirmed by Hosea 6:2 and by the historical fact of there having passed nearly 2000 years since His Advent. Soon Jesus will take up His Kingly rule of all the world.