The "lambkin" in Revelation and John 21 question

[LittleLambofJesus]

While translating Revelation from the Greek texts I saw how this word used for "lamb-kin" looked in the Greek.

This word used for "lambkin" in Revelation is rather unique, as it is used only once outside of Revelation [John 21:15]. It appears to closely resemble the greek word for "disown/denied"

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7245098
Revelation 5 verse by verse

Revelation 5:6 And I saw in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin standing, as having been slaughtered, having horns, seven, and eyes, seven, whom/M-P are the seven spirits of the GOD having been commissioned into all the land.

ByzMaj) Revelation 5:6 kai eidon en mesw tou qronou kai twn tessarwn zwwn kai en mesw twn presbuterwn arnion esthkoV wV esfagmenon econ kerata epta kai ofqalmouV epta a eisin ta epta pneumata tou qeou apostellomena eiV pasan thn ghn

John 21:15 When then they dine is saying to the Simon Peter, the Jesus, "Simon of Jonas/John, thou are loving Me more of these?"
He is saying to Him, "Yea Lord! Thou has perceived that I am being-affectionate/fond of Thee."
He is saying to him, `Be thou grazing/boske <1006>! the Lamb-kins/arnia <721> of Me .'

1 John 2:22 Any is the Falsifier if no the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) that Jesus not is the Christ, this one is the anti-christ, the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) the Father and the Son.

 

[MamaZ]

I must say I really dont know what you are saying LOL..So can you say it in a way that even I can understand for I am not the sharpets tool in the shed..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I must say I really dont know what you are saying LOL..So can you say it in a way that even I can understand for I am not the sharpest tool in the shed..

Me neither!

I suppose one would have to study Revelation in relation to the OC book of Isaiah and the rest of the OC Prophets sent to the Hebrew Israelites/Jews. Isaiah 53 comes to mind and notice the greek word used for "lamb" in Acts 8 compared to the greek word used for "lambkin" in Revelation.

Y@sha`yah 53:7 He-is-oppressed/exacted. And-he one-being-humbled, and-not he-is-opening mouth-of-him.
As-flockling to-slaughter he-is-fetched. And-as-ewe before/faces ones-shearing-her she is mute. And-not he-is-opening mouth-of-him. [Acts 53:7]

Acts 8:32 The yet contexts of the Scripture which He read was this: `As a-sheep/flockling/probaton<4263> onto slaughter he was led; and as a-Lamb/amnoV <286> before of the one shearing Him, soundless, thus not opening the mouth of Him; [Isaiah 53:7]

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=+1]According to A.T. Robertson, who taught PhD level Greek for 47 years

Word Pictures in the N.T. - Rev 5:6 -
And I saw (kai eidon). Stirred by the words of the elder in Rev_5:5 (idou, behold). “I beheld.”

In the midst (en meso&#772;i). See Rev_4:6 for this idiom. It is not quite clear where the Lamb was standing in the vision, whether close to the throne or in the space between the throne and the elders (perhaps implied by “came” in Rev_5:7, but nearness to the throne is implied by Rev_14:1; Act_7:56; Heb_10:11).

A Lamb (arnion). Elsewhere in the N.T. ho amnos is used of Christ (Joh_1:29, Joh_1:36; Act_8:32; 1Pe_1:19 like Isa_53:7), but in the Apocalypse to arnion occurs for the Crucified Christ 29 times in twelve chapters.

Standing (heste&#772;kos). Second perfect active (intransitive of histe&#772;mi) neuter accusative singular (grammatical gender like arnion), though some MSS. read heste&#772;ko&#772;s (natural gender masculine and nominative in spite of eidon construction according to sense).

As though it had been slain (ho&#772;s esphagmenon). Perfect passive predicate participle of sphazo&#772;, old word, in N.T. only in Rev_5:6, Rev_5:9, Rev_5:12; Rev_6:4, Rev_6:9; Rev_13:3; Rev_18:24; 1Jo_3:12. Ho&#772;s (as if) is used because the Lamb is now alive, but (in appearance) with the marks of the sacrifice. The Christ as the Lamb is both sacrifice and Priest (Heb_9:12.; Heb_10:11).

Having (echo&#772;n). Construction according to sense again with masculine nominative participle instead of echonta (masculine accusative singular) or echon (neuter accusative singular). Seven horns (keras) is a common symbol in the O.T. for strength and kingly power (1Sa_2:10; 1Ki_22:11; Psa_112:9; Dan_7:7, Dan_7:20.) and often in Rev (Rev_12:3; Rev_13:1; Rev_17:3, Rev_17:12). Fulness of power (the All-powerful one) is symbolized by seven.
Seven eyes (ophthalmous hepta). Like Zec_3:9; Zec_4:10 and denotes here, as there, omniscience. Here they are identified with the seven Spirits of Christ, while in Rev_1:4 the seven Spirits are clearly the Holy Spirit of God (Rev_3:1), and blaze like torches (Rev_4:5), like the eyes of Christ (Rev_1:14). The Holy Spirit is both Spirit of God and of Christ (Rom_8:9).
Sent forth (apestalmenoi). Perfect passive predicate participle of apostello&#772;, masculine plural (agreeing with hoi and ophthalmous in gender), but some MSS. have apestalmena agreeing with the nearer pneumata.​

[/SIZE]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As though it had been slain (ho&#772;s esphagmenon). Perfect passive predicate participle of sphazo&#772;, old word, in N.T. only in Rev_5:6, Rev_5:9, Rev_5:12; Rev_6:4, Rev_6:9; Rev_13:3; Rev_18:24; 1Jo_3:12. Ho&#772;s (as if) is used because the Lamb is now alive, but (in appearance) with the marks of the sacrifice. The Christ as the Lamb is both sacrifice and Priest (Heb_9:12.; Heb_10:11).

I was under the assumption it meant more like "slaughter" as in a sacrifice. That exact same form of the word is also used in Reve 5:6 and Reve 13:3 and it seems to go back to the passover lamb the OC Hebrew Israelites slaughtered.

Exodus 12:21 And Moses calleth for all the elders of Israel, and saith unto them, `Draw out and take for yourselves [from] the flock, for your families, and slaughter/07819 shachat the passover-sacrifice;

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin/N standing, as having been slaughtered/esfag-menon <4969> (5772)N,

Reve 13:3 And one/F, out of the heads/f of it, as having been slaughtered/esfag-menhn/<4969> (5772)F into death/qanaton <2288>, and the blow/stripe of the death of it/her was healed, and marvels whole the land behind of the wild-beast.

4969. sphazo sfad'-zo a primary verb; to butcher (especially an animal for food or in sacrifice) or (generally) to slaughter, or (specially), to maim (violently):--kill, slay, wound.

4967. sphage sfag-ay' from 4969; butchery (of animals for food or sacrifice, or (figuratively) of men (destruction)):--slaughter.

4968. sphagion sfag'-ee-on neuter of a derivative of 4967; a victim (in sacrifice):--slain beast.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I was doing a word study on the greek word used for "Owner" in 2 Peter 2:1 and this just blew me away.

The same words used for "purchase" and "disown" are used in Reve 5:6, 9.
It might be from Isaiah 53 where the Messiah would come to the Jews/Israelites and most would "disown" Him.
That word for "lambkin" used in revelation as always intrigued me. Thoughts?

2Peter 2:1 There became yet also False-Prophets in the people as also in ye shall be False-Teachers whoany shall be carrying in sects of destruction, and the One buying/agorasanta <59> (5660) them, Owner/Master/despothn <1203>, disowning/arnou-menoi <720> (5740)-- bringing on them swift destruction. [Matt 24:11/Jude 1:/Reve 5:9]

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin/arnion <721> standing, as having been slaughtered
9 And they are singing a song, new, saying: "Thou are worthy to be taking the scrollet and to up-open the seals of it that thou was slaughtered and Thou purchase/hgorasaV <59> (5656), to the God in the blood of Thee, out of every tribe, and tongue and people and nation"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I can also see this word usually used for "lamb" in revelation being a type of denied one.
.

Isaiah 53:3 One being despised and shunned of men/0376 'iysh, one being known of illness. And as concealment from faces from him one being despized and not we accounted him.

1 John 2:22 Who-any is the Falsifier except the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) that Jesus not is the Christ, this-one is the anti-christ/anti-cristoV <500>, the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) the Father and the Son.

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin/denied-one?/arnion <721> standing, as having been slaughtered

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5858522&page=13
Isaiah 53: A Contextual Discussion
__________________

 

[squint]

I was doing a word study on the greek word used for "Owner" in 2 Peter 2:1 and this just blew me away.

The same words used for "purchase" and "disown" are used in Reve 5:6, 9.
It might be from Isaiah 53 where the Messiah would come to the Jews/Israelites and most would "disown" Him.
That word for "lambkin" used in revelation as always intrigued me. Thoughts?

2Peter 2:1 There became yet also False-Prophets in the people as also in ye shall be False-Teachers whoany shall be carrying in sects of destruction, and the One buying/agorasanta <59> (5660) them, Owner/Master/despothn <1203>, disowning/arnou-menoi <720> (5740)-- bringing on them swift destruction. [Matt 24:11/Jude 1:/Reve 5:9]

Ah, you have noticed a duality of meaning purposefully intended (purchase/disown.) Look up Siloam(sp?) sometime, as in the pool of. You'll find it means or can mean both sent one and sent away one. Then see what the blindman saw when he was sent to wash there...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

[/font]

Ah, you have noticed a duality of meaning purposefully intended (purchase/disown.) Look up Siloam(sp?) sometime, as in the pool of. You'll find it means or can mean both sent one and sent away one. Then see what the blindman saw when he was sent to wash there...

Interesting.

John 9:7 `Go away wash at the pool of Siloam/silwam <4611>, 'which is interpreted Sent/apestalmenoV <649> (5772)'. He went away, therefore, and did wash, and came seeing;

Luke 13:4 `Or those eighteen, on whom the tower in Siloam/silwam <4611> fell and killed them; think ye that these became debtors beyond all men who are dwelling in Jerusalem?

4611. Siloam sil-o-am' of Hebrew origin (7975); Siloam (i.e. Shiloach), a pool of Jerusalem:--Siloam.
7975 Shiloach shee-lo'-akh or (in imitation of 7974) Shelach (Neh. 3:15) {sheh'-lakh}; from 7971; rill; Shiloach, a fountain of Jerusalem:-- Shiloah, Siloah.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any more discussion on that greek word used for "lamb" in Revelation?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lambkin/N standing as having been slaughtered/esfag-menon <4969> (5772)N,

Textus Rec.) Revelation 5:6 kai eidon kai idou en mesw tou qronou kai twn tessarwn zwwn kai en mesw twn presbuterwn arnion esthkoV wV esfagmenon econ kerata epta kai ofqalmouV epta oi eisin ta epta tou qeou pneumata ta apestalmena eiV pasan thn ghn

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Not sure about the word lamb-kin.

What I find interesting is the opening scene in the Bible is almost identical to the closing scene in the Bible:

People in right relationship to God.
People in right relationship to each other.
A tree, a river, meaningful labor partnering with God.

Go Cards

 

[Thekla]

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(for easier access over busy days)

Thanks for the heads up !!!!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*subscribing

(for easier access over busy days)

Thanks for the heads up !!!!

Thanks Thekla

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Would anyone like to discuss this topic further and that greek word #721?

John 21:15 When then they dine is saying the Jesus to the Simon Peter "Simon of Jonas/John, thou are loving Me more of these"? He is saying to Him "yea Lord! Thou are aware that I am being-fond of thee. He is saying to him "be thou grazing/boske <1006>! the lambkins/arnia <721> of Me".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Shameless bump

 

[Tyndale]

While translating Revelation from the Greek texts I saw how this word used for "lamb-kin" looked in the Greek.

This word used for "lambkin" in Revelation is rather unique, as it is used only once outside of Revelation [John 21:15]. It appears to closely resemble the greek word for "disown/denied"

Revelation Chapter 5 verse by verse - Christian Forums
Revelation 5 verse by verse

Revelation 5:6 And I saw in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin standing, as having been slaughtered, having horns, seven, and eyes, seven, whom/M-P are the seven spirits of the GOD having been commissioned into all the land.

ByzMaj) Revelation 5:6 kai eidon en mesw tou qronou kai twn tessarwn zwwn kai en mesw twn presbuterwn arnion esthkoV wV esfagmenon econ kerata epta kai ofqalmouV epta a eisin ta epta pneumata tou qeou apostellomena eiV pasan thn ghn

John 21:15 When then they dine is saying to the Simon Peter, the Jesus, "Simon of Jonas/John, thou are loving Me more of these?"
He is saying to Him, "Yea Lord! Thou has perceived that I am being-affectionate/fond of Thee."
He is saying to him, `Be thou grazing/boske <1006>! the Lamb-kins/arnia <721> of Me .'

1 John 2:22 Any is the Falsifier if no the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) that Jesus not is the Christ, this one is the anti-christ, the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) the Father and the Son.

LLOJ, how close does it appear 'to resemble the Greek word for "disown/denied" ' ?, and does it mean they are related?

 

[Tyndale]

LLOJ, what conclusion have you made with this lamb-kin discovery?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ, how close does it appear 'to resemble the Greek word for "disown/denied" ' ?

I would say very close and I would even go so far as to say it resembles a lot of what is in Isaiah 53 concerning the "suffering servant".

Young) John 1:11 Into the own-things He came, and the own-ones Him not accepted/received

Textus Rec.) John 1:11 eiV ta idia hlqen kai oi idioi auton ou parelabon

http://www.christianforums.com/t5858522-13/#post37444440
Isaiah 53: A Contextual Discussion

 

[Tyndale]

I would say very close and I would even go so far as to say it resembles a lot of what is in Isaiah 53 concerning the "suffering servant".

Young) John 1:11 Into the own-things He came, and the own-ones Him not accepted/received

Textus Rec.) John 1:11 eiV ta idia hlqen kai oi idioi auton ou parelabon

http://www.christianforums.com/t5858522-13/#post37444440
Isaiah 53: A Contextual Discussion

LLOJ, I don't mean to be rude but isn't it time you started giving your opinion on what you've found? I hope I'm not the only one in this forum to say this, but I struggle at times to understand the point you are raising, when you connect words like this (Maybe its just me)

Here's my two cents worth, feel free to correct me if I haven't grasped it. The suffering servant is Christ? Yes. The ones who denied him were the Jews? Yes. So why is Jesus telling Peter to preach unto the Jews, when we know he was the disciple who preached to the Gentiles in the Roman's house?

Did Jesus tell Peter to feed the Jews when he said feed my sheep? .....Am I on the wrong track or what?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is interesting. A form of the word #721 is used in 2 Peter 2 as "disowning".
Could the "lambkin" be symbolizing Jesus as being "disowned" by the Jews to whom He came to?

2Peter 2:1 There became yet also False-Prophets in the people as also in ye shall be False-Teachers who-any shall be carrying in sects of destruction, and the One buying them, Owner/Master/despothn <1203>, disowning/arnoumenoi <720> (5740), bringing on them swift destruction.
[Matt 24:11/Jude 1:4/Reve 6:10]

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lambkin/arnion <721> standing, as having been slaughtered