• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured The Knowledge of God

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LightandTruth, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +33,422
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Never knowing them relationally is not equivalent to not knowing them at all.

    If you want to know the Christian definition of God’s omniscience here it is:

    "Omniscient" means "all-knowing." Scripture declares that God's eyes run everywhere (Job 24:23; Psalms 33:13-15, 139:13-16; Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 16:17; Hebrews 4:13). He searches all hearts and observes everyone's ways (1 Samuel 16:7; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Chronicles 28:9; Psalms 139:1-6, 23; Jeremiah 17:10; Luke 16:15; Romans 8:27; Revelation 2:23). In other words, he knows everything all of the time. He knows the future no less than the past and the present, and possible events that never happen no less than the actual events that do (1 Samuel 23:9-13; 2 Kings 13:19; Psalms 81:14-15; Isaiah 48:18-19). He does not have to acquire information about things; all his knowledge is immediately and directly before his mind. The authors of the Bible stood in awe of the capacity of God's mind (Psalms 139:1-6; 147:5; Isaiah 40:13-14, 28; cf. Romans 11:33-36).

    I still have not seen any Scriptural veracity nor exegetical validity from your posts. I have seen your eisegesis.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  2. Paul James

    Paul James Active Member

    408
    +113
    New Zealand
    Presbyterian
    Married
    If we could work God out with our finite minds, then He wouldn't be God. He has revealed that much of Himself in the Bible for us to know that He is the Living God who created the whole universe and this world and everything in it just by telling it exist from absolutely nothing by a stupendous power that we could never imagine. We have absolutely no way of being able to even remotely conceive of how that could happen, but it did.

    To show the world who He really is, and for us finite human beings to gain some awareness of Him, He sent His only begotten Son to be born as a baby and became a truly human being that we can relate to, and yet continue to be divine in order to take upon Himself the eternal wrath of God when he hung on the cross for our sin.

    This is the attribute of God's love which, in theological terms, is called Divine Condescension, that God presented Himself in a form [Jesus Christ] in which we can understand and relate to Him as someone we can have fellowship with.
     
  3. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

    +669
    Non-Denom
    Married
    This post seems like yet another convoluted attempt to "get God off the hook" some all the evil in the world, that he openly claims responsibility for.
     
  4. Paul James

    Paul James Active Member

    408
    +113
    New Zealand
    Presbyterian
    Married
    Not clear which post you are referring to.
     
  5. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

    +669
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Sorry, I'm referring to the main post.
     
  6. Ivan Hlavanda

    Ivan Hlavanda Member

    194
    +138
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Single
    You are putting limits on God if you are claiming that God doesn't know everything. That God does need to find out. God has no limits, He is not human to have them.

    To your claim about God regretting. First of all, God doesn't feel like us mare humans do, His feelings are so much complex, none of us can even comprehend them. Now, just because God does regret something, doesn't mean He would do it differently. Even when He regrets things, it's still the best and right thing He has done. I give you an example: A child does something completely wrong, let's say he lies about his homework so he can play. The parent finds out and slaps the child few times. The parent sees the child crying, he regrets to hurting the child, but he had to discipline him, and to slap him was the best option, he regrets it true, but he had to do it, otherwise the child would lie again.

    So why does God regrets creating us? Does this imply God didn't know we would sin. NO, He knew, He was just shocked by the pain and sorrow it had on Him. Yes He knew we would cause Him pain He was just shocked...like when Jesus said on the cross 'My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?' Jesus of course knew Father would abandon Him the 'why' is not a question looking for an answer, but a way of expressing the horrors of abandonment.

    So God when He said He regretted creating us was expressing the horrors of what the humanity became, even though He fully knew it.
     
  7. thomas_t

    thomas_t Blessings Collector

    674
    +134
    Germany
    Christian
    Single
    Thank you.
    You are a making a very important point here: for believers, it seems to be enough to think God has all-time all-embracing knowledge of everything.
    But there are two problems with this line of reasoning:
    no verse can be found to substanciate such a reasoning:
    here, Christianity goes beyond what is actually stated in the Bible, I think, setting a (bad) example of man purportedly being entitled to add to God's word when they should not!
    If Bible does not claim omniscience, neither should man!
    He certainly has the power to know everything, that's beyond doubt.
    The second problem being... the moment you discuss with atheists and or doubters... the assumend omniscience of God always backfires, I think.
    90% of all Christians don't seem to discuss with them anyways... but those who do have to pay the price for their doctrine it seems.

    Also, who would like the idea of an always-helicopter-parenting God?
    God always having to go through all the information there is... seems like a burden for him. This is at least what I sometimes think.

    The problem that I see with the doctrine of God's potential non-omniscience is this: once people buy it... they can't wait to ask themselves what it is God knows and what he doesn't. Which is futile, I think.
    I've made this experience once.
     
  8. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

    +788
    Switzerland
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The matter of God’s knowledge and his action or lack of action are very complex. They are so complex that no theologian can search out the answers even if they memorized the whole Bible and are fluent in Greek and Hebrew. God actually hides some matters from the learned (likely wise and informed in their own eyes.) To understand the ability and mind of God requires God to
    open the mind and explain Himself. So really understanding God is not possible on our own but He is able to communicate Himself truthfully to those who fulfill the conditions.

    Now, the poster has made a mistake in assigning blame or responsibility if one knows. This is false. Knowing does not link to responsibility. Let’s look at something positive. When Jesus praises the servants who did well with what they were given, he didn’t take responsibility for this. He wasn’t praising himself even though as God he would have known this outcome. If I know my son or anyone I’m not connected to will pass his/their final exams, doesn’t mean I can take any credit. I’m not responsible for the accomplishments of my children, even though I know they’ll do well.

    God knowing the choices freely made by people does not make God responsible for those choices. Just Human law does not hold a person responsible if they know doing XYZ will result in Mr. H doing ABC if ABC, is illegal. Mr. H is always responsible for his own choices. Adam tried blaming Eve for his choice and God did not by it. Seems to be the tendency to blame someone else and the idea that God knows so He’s responsible is convenient.

    It is false.
     
  9. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

    +788
    Switzerland
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You are not the first to accuse God of evil.
     
  10. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,826
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    Garbage. Your god is way too small. I won't even bother to refute your claims. They are beyond ridiculous.
     
  11. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

    +788
    Switzerland
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Aussie Pete, the view expressed in the OP is not uncommon. I’ve heard this before. I think it’s worth addressing.
     
  12. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,826
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    I'll pray about. My first reaction is, "they have to be kidding". I did not realise that others are equally ignorant of God and His ways.
     
  13. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,826
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    Except God is not evil and does no evil. You may not like what God does, but you are on dangerous ground when you accuse Him of doing evil.
     
  14. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

    +669
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I don't accuse him of anything. I just take him at his word, when he says he creates evil.
     
  15. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

    +788
    Switzerland
    Non-Denom
    Married
    There are a surprising lot of ignorant people.
     
  16. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

    +788
    Switzerland
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You purposely choose to misunderstand it twisting the words to convey what the author didn’t say. There is such a thing as an “evil day” and no one thinks this means a day is making morally bad choices.
     
  17. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,826
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    Are you referring to Isaiah 46:7? The King James and other, older versions translate the Hebrew word as "evil". It can equally be translated "adversity" or "calamity" as in more modern translations.

    For sure God brings calamity on people. He does so rarely.

    I wonder how many people wish that God had stopped Hitler before he declared war? God is merciful and gracious, loving and kind. He withholds His righteous judgements for now. God needs to do little to bring adversity on the world. We are well able to bring it on ourselves.
    James 1:13
    "When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone."
     
  18. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,252
    Christian
    Private
    if he cannot be called omniscient, omnipotent or omnipresent then he cannot called God. it's not a scripture thing, it's a logic thing. If God is not infinite in all ways then why the heck am I worshiping him? it also points to God as a part of a system rather than the creator of that system. The first verse tells us God preexisted space and time so and he is not limited by it. His outside incarnational "visits" must be an example of anthropomorphism because if we are saying he has a body which has limits this disqualifies him from being God.

    Ps 50 says "If I were hungry I would not tell you, for the world is mine, and all that is in it. Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats?" In here is an anthropomorphic rhetorical challenge which essentially is did you really think God needs to eat and drink?

    I'm curious to know how do you see God stripped of his omnis? does he have physical form? does he have limits? Tell me what you think God eats or drinks?
     
  19. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    513
    +203
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    This view of those words that show God as one who has to see it for himself (like Thomas) to believe it is true tend's to guarantee that there will eventually be another rebellion, since God can't really declare an end from the beginning like he was touted to have said ...
     
  20. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

    779
    +254
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    Interesting.

    I think God knows ONE man, and He has known a few others, individually.

    He knew Adam at one point in history, before Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden, and He knew the sons of Adam (those who are IN ADAM) through His knowledge of Adam.

    He knows the last Adam and those who are IN HIM.

    Does He know each and every individual? Maybe it depends on whether or not each individual makes himself known to God? Jer 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

    So God knew Seth, and God knew Noah, and God knew Abraham, and God knew king David. Why?

    Gen 15:6 "And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

    Matt 7:7-8 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

    Jer 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

    So God knows only the last Adam - but if anyone wants to be known of God individually, he needs to make himself known unto God.

    Edited:

    It starts with prayer, and continues with obedience.

    However, it's short-sighted to say that God does not know each and every individual. He knew Cain, and spoke to him. God also knew the king of Babylon, and spoke to him through His prophets, prophesying his future - which only God could know.

    God spoke to the king of Tyre, God foretold the future too many times to count.

    I think the Bible produces too much evidence that God is omniscient.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
Loading...