The KJVO Myth - Phony As A Ford Corvette !

Albion

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To people like yourself, we're Roman Catholics minus a Pope, and to Catholics we're as Reformed as any Protestant is.

I rather like that we stand, almost alone, for the middle ground of historic Christianity, not falling off into any extremism on either side. :)
 
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solid_core

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To people like yourself, we're Roman Catholics minus a Pope, and to Catholics we're as Reformed as any Protestant is.

I rather like that we stand, almost alone, for the middle ground of historic Christianity, not falling off into any extremism on either side. :)
I think that to have a name of the world's nation in the name of the church and the name of a king in the name of the Bible seems to be quite an extremism of its own ;-)
 
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Albion

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I think that to have a name of the world's nation in the name of the church and the name of a king in the name of the Bible seems to be quite an extremism of its own ;-)
That is funny. I cannot imagine what additional trivialities might be considered by other people who are not particularly informed about the church to be "extremism!"

But it may help you if I point out that, in many countries, the actual name of the church does not have any denominational identifier. It's just The Church of ___, like the Church of England which has been much discussed in the last several days around here. Or the Diocese of ____ (location). Do you see the name of any denomination there? No. And not many other denominations can say the same about themselves.
 
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solid_core

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That is funny. I cannot imagine what other trivialities might be considered by other people who are not particularly informed about the4 church to be "extremism!"

But it may help you if I point out that, in many countries, the actual name of the church does not have any denominational identifier. It's just The Church of ___, like the Church of England which has been much discussed in the last several days around here.. Do you see the name of any denomination there? No.
You know how it is. What is a trivial thing for one can be an important thing for others.
 
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Saint Steven

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That is funny. I cannot imagine what additional trivialities might be considered by other people who are not particularly informed about the church to be "extremism!"

But it may help you if I point out that, in many countries, the actual name of the church does not have any denominational identifier. It's just The Church of ___, like the Church of England which has been much discussed in the last several days around here. Or the Diocese of ____ (location). Do you see the name of any denomination there? No. And not many other denominations can say the same about themselves.
I thought the term "denomination" only referred to Protestantism anyway. Catholics don't consider themselves to be one of the denominations. They consider themselves to be the Church. (capital C) Everyone else left the Church, according to them. (even Eastern Orthodox) As I understand it.
 
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Saint Steven

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I meant the article on universalism was biased, as it was written by a universalist.
Everything is biased. Even the Bible. Which was translated by Damnationists. But I plan to continue using it. Though I consider the source.
 
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pescador

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What do any of the recent posts have to do with the subject of the OP: The KJVO myth?

Answer: nothing. Anglicans, Catholics, Hoffnung für Alle, body hair, universalism, Protestantism, Eastern Orthdox, etc., etc., etc,

As I have said previously, I suggest you either return to the topic or start a new thread.
 
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Albion

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I thought the term "denomination" only referred to Protestantism anyway.
In normal use, it applies to any specific and organized branch of Christianity. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines it as "a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices."

Sometimes it is asked if divisions within particular "families of faith" should be distinguished by that term. For instance, are the United Methodist Church and the Free Methodist Church different denominations or is Methodism the denomination and there is some better term for the difference between these two varieties of Methodists? The dictionary definition would say the answer is the first of these two.

Catholics don't consider themselves to be one of the denominations. They consider themselves to be the Church.
That's true. Many Catholics would, not surprisingly, prefer if everyone referred to their church as "The Church" or something else that suggests the idea that it's the only real one.

Higher-ups in the church's leadership often call other Christian denominations "ecclesial communities," not even affording them recognition as a "church."

So each community or each individual can choose to say what he thinks best, but "denomination" is widely accepted as appropriate for all of them.

Everyone else left the Church, according to them. (even Eastern Orthodox) As I understand it.
You're right.
 
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pescador

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In normal use, it applies to any specific and organized branch of Christianity. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines it as "a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices."

Sometimes it is asked if divisions within particular "families of faith" should be distinguished by that term. For instance, are the United Methodist Church and the Free Methodist Church different denominations or is Methodism the denomination and there is some better term for the difference between these two varieties of Methodists? The dictionary definition would say the answer is the first of these two.


That's true. Many Catholics would, not surprisingly, prefer if everyone referred to their church as "The Church" or something else that suggests the idea that it's the only real one.

Higher-ups in the church's leadership often call other Christian denominations "ecclesial communities," not even affording them recognition as a "church."

So each community or each individual can choose to say what he thinks best, but "denomination" is widely accepted as appropriate for all of them.


You're right.

Completely off topic.
 
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Swan7

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Thank you but Truthfully making rhetorical statements on this site isn’t real cool either.

What are you talking about? All I said was to be careful not to misunderstand what is actually being said by someone and by the context of the thread.... If anything it was you who isn't being "real cool". Clearly you have a problem.

I have nothing further to say to you, so please do not quote me.
 
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robycop3

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Sportzz fanzz, it's becoming apparent to me that the KJVOs have either left the building, are incapable of defending the KJVO myth, or (my biggest hope) are re-thinking their position & realizing the KJVO myth is false.(I realize the chances for that position are quite small.)
 
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pescador

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You are correct.... Which is why I cannot get overly fanatical over the KJV. I would, though, watch the other translations as well. In Acts 1:8 the TLB (Living Bible) restricts the power only to testify....

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1:8 KJV

But when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, you will receive power to testify about me with great effect, to the people in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth, about my death and resurrection.” - Acts 1:8 (TLB)

Power in the Greek is dynamis, in which the Strongs Concordance does not restrict only to testify....

δύναμις dýnamis, doo'-nam-is; from G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specially, miraculous power (usually by implication, a miracle itself):—ability, abundance, meaning, might(-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle(-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work

So... The Living Bible effectively watered that passage down greatly.

I disagree. Using the Strong's Concordance to translate a single word -- Strong's gives 11 separate meanings for a single Greek word -- means nothing.

The purpose of the The Living Bible is to make the ideas of the Greek texts meaningful to people who don't understand such archaisms as "ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

"Both" implies two entities, yet three (and more) regions of the Earth are mentioned.

"ye shall be witnesses unto me" means either "to" Jesus, which is ridiculous, or "until" which is also ridiculous.

The Living Bible makes the meaning much clearer when it says, "you will receive power to testify about me with great effect".

δύναμις has multiple meanings, "force (literally or figuratively); specially, miraculous power (usually by implication, a miracle itself):—ability, abundance, meaning, might(-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle(-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work

You seize on a single word with multiple meanings but miss the point of what Jesus is saying.

Matthew 23:24 "You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel."
 
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Saint Steven

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That is funny. I cannot imagine what additional trivialities might be considered by other people who are not particularly informed about the church to be "extremism!"
(old believer to new convert) "Have you been washed in the blood, brother?"
(new convert) "Eww... do they make you do that?!!!"
 
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disciple Clint

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Glad to hear that you disagree with Cessationism.

The idea of a "closed canon" infers that the New Testament was "written" like a book that ended with the last chapter being the book of Revelation. When in fact the canon was a collection of books assembled and voted on in the fourth century. The term "closed canon" is also used to claim that the revelation of God to humankind is complete and that there is no new revelation that can come from God now. (a gag order on God speaking today)
The canon was in fact closed in the fourth century, however special revelation is still available through the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that there is something that should be added to the Bible? If so what is it and what authority would there be for considering it Scripture?
 
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disciple Clint

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Obviously the Masoretic texts were copied from earlier Hebrew texts that did exist in the time of Jesus.

And when we look at NT quotes of the OT, some of them are recognisably the Septuagint, and some of them are something that looks exactly like the Masoretic.
The original question I was trying to answer was: is there Scriptural support for any Bible translation? My thinking was that the quotes that Jesus made from the Septuagint would be support for it. It was accepted by Jesus. I agree that there is not perfect translation.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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In the spirit of Pentecost I actually think it’s possible that even if a translation were a bit off it would be possible for God to cause a person to “misread” it or see something that wasn’t explicit in the words on paper as written, if he willed it to be so.

And what actually made me consider that was a discussion on that other KJVO topic where from what I understand the KJV translators added “and shalt be” to a line about how God was and is, even without archaeological evidence to do so, and yet the way they translated it actually aligns perfectly with what I’ve read as the Hebrew understanding of “ehyeh asher ehyeh” including both “I am” and “I will be” simultaneously.
 
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robycop3

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The original question I was trying to answer was: is there Scriptural support for any Bible translation? My thinking was that the quotes that Jesus made from the Septuagint would be support for it. It was accepted by Jesus. I agree that there is not perfect translation.

We see 1n 1 Cor. 14 that Paul wrote about people's not understanding one another's speech. While I realize he was mostly writing here about "unknown tongues", the same principle applies. If I heard a Chinese preacher giving a sermon, I wouldn't understand a word he said; same for him if he were listening to me.

The KJV's English is difficult for many users of current English.
 
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disciple Clint

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God doesn't play by our rules. He speaks when he wants and through whom he chooses. He even chose a donkey once to speak to Balaam. Who are we to claim what is more or less "authoritative"?
Who has He spoken to and what has he said. Can you can give specific examples
 
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Saint Steven

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The canon was in fact closed in the fourth century, however special revelation is still available through the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that there is something that should be added to the Bible? If so what is it and what authority would there be for considering it Scripture?
No, I believe the Bible should be left as is.
I only brought all this up to address the implications of the term "closed canon" that some have. You are not in the category of my concern since you believe God is still speaking.
 
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