The Kalama Sutta

[Tellyontellyon]

I'm not hear to preach Buddhism (don't worry we don't usually do that), but I will quote a little bit of a Buddhist scripture in order to ask a question.
The Kalamas were a group of people who had been visited my many different teachers... So when the Buddha came they asked this question:

....the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some brahmans and contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. And then other brahmans and contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain and in doubt: Which of these venerable brahmans and contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

I won't give the Buddha's response as that's not the point of this post.

*** .... Can I ask the Christians the same question that the Buddha was asked.. how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

 

[BobRyan]

Eph 4: 11 And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, that is, Christ

Isaiah 8:20 To the Law and to the testimony! If they do not speak in accordance with this word, it is because they have no light.

Gal 1:
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel, 7 which is not just another account; but there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Acts 20:28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. 32 And now I entrust you to God and to the word of His grace

So they had to "test" everything "sola scriptura"
Acts 17:11 Now these people were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.


Christians do this all the time. That is how we select between the various groups. Sometimes one person starts off in group-1 finds it to be in error on some points and goes to a more Biblically grounded group-2 finds a bit more error still left and then goes to group-3 that does not have any of those prior errors when compared to the Bible.

==== God Himself teaches each one (but all have free will and can accept or reject where the Spirit is leading)

1 John 2:
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.

John 16:12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them at the present time. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take from Mine and will disclose it to you.

===================

And God the Holy Spirit will guide those who are not Christian as well if they choose to be willing to be lead.

D'Souza Media | Millions of Muslims are Converting to Christianity After Having Dreams and Visions of Jesus Christ

 

[com7fy8]

how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

I think you are asking how I would answer this question >

If different groups of Bible claiming people are disagreeing with each and each group is convinced they are right, and if they are looking down on other groups . . . how do I know which group is right?

If someone is looking down on someone else, the person looking down on the other is not right. If they are looking down on each other, then both are wrong. So, none of them are right.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I'm not hear to preach Buddhism (don't worry we don't usually do that), but I will quote a little bit of a Buddhist scripture in order to ask a question.
The Kalamas were a group of people who had been visited my many different teachers... So when the Buddha came they asked this question:

....the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some brahmans and contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. And then other brahmans and contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain and in doubt: Which of these venerable brahmans and contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

I won't give the Buddha's response as that's not the point of this post.

*** .... Can I ask the Christians the same question that the Buddha was asked.. how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

The Kalamas may not have had a set of scriptures to bolster their doctrines so they wavered like the wind. In our scripture we had a similar group of people known as the Bereans. They tested all who expounded and glorified their doctrines against the Torah. They found one set of men, Paul and Silas, to be speaking the truth when they shared the Gospel. This is how we test truth as Christians, like the Bereans. How we rebuke false teachers comes in many forms however,we should practice charity when doing so.

 

[aiki]

I'm not hear to preach Buddhism (don't worry we don't usually do that), but I will quote a little bit of a Buddhist scripture in order to ask a question.
The Kalamas were a group of people who had been visited my many different teachers... So when the Buddha came they asked this question:

....the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some brahmans and contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. And then other brahmans and contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain and in doubt: Which of these venerable brahmans and contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

I won't give the Buddha's response as that's not the point of this post.

*** .... Can I ask the Christians the same question that the Buddha was asked.. how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

Which doctrines communicate truth? The ones that have the most explanatory power and accord best with reality. For my money, Christianity stands far above all other religions in this regard, giving a comprehensive, deep and exhaustive explanation of reality that makes sense of things extremely well.

 

[JohnEmmett]

For my money, Christianity stands far above all other religions in this regard, giving a comprehensive, deep and exhaustive explanation of reality that makes sense of things extremely well.

Compare Buddhist Thirty-one Planes of Existence

 

[James_Lai]

I'm not hear to preach Buddhism (don't worry we don't usually do that), but I will quote a little bit of a Buddhist scripture in order to ask a question.
The Kalamas were a group of people who had been visited my many different teachers... So when the Buddha came they asked this question:

....the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some brahmans and contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. And then other brahmans and contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain and in doubt: Which of these venerable brahmans and contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

I won't give the Buddha's response as that's not the point of this post.

*** .... Can I ask the Christians the same question that the Buddha was asked.. how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

I think majority of Christians would answer, “my way or highway”.

 

[BobRyan]

Which doctrines communicate truth? The ones that have the most explanatory power and accord best with reality. For my money, Christianity stands far above all other religions in this regard, giving a comprehensive, deep and exhaustive explanation of reality that makes sense of things extremely well.

Christianity has by far the best beginning.

1. All wise all powerful God who "IS" Love creates mankind with free will in a sinless deathless environment - paradise. No predation, no famine, no suffering no death. All is paradise, no sorrow no sin no suffering. Maximum opportunities to grow and learn and explore.

Christianity has by far the best ending.
2. All death and evil ended - all suffering ended - no more rebellion, no more sin, no more sorrow


And in the middle - Christianity has the best "personal "God
3. I am WITH you always even unto the end of the world.
It has God who hears our every prayer and sends his own supernatural beings to be with us personal in the same place where we are in answer to our prayers.

================================

So - if you knew nothing much about all religions and assumed all were equally likely to be correct - then Christianity would be "first choice" right out of the gate.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

2. All death and evil ended - all suffering ended - no more rebellion, no more sin, no more sorrow

That's not a Christian teaching...
Many will go to hell and suffer forever according to Christianity.

 

[Tolworth John]

how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

We argue vigerously about Christian doctrine, often forgetting that as Christians we should be gracious in didagrements.
That we do this is a blot on our character and a reproach to all Christians.

I will make only one defence of this behaviour and that is the truth is important and in the defence or promoting of what is understood to be part of the truth people get carried away by their passion.

 

[Lukaris]

I'm not hear to preach Buddhism (don't worry we don't usually do that), but I will quote a little bit of a Buddhist scripture in order to ask a question.
The Kalamas were a group of people who had been visited my many different teachers... So when the Buddha came they asked this question:

....the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some brahmans and contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. And then other brahmans and contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain and in doubt: Which of these venerable brahmans and contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

I won't give the Buddha's response as that's not the point of this post.

*** .... Can I ask the Christians the same question that the Buddha was asked.. how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

I guess we should consider how St. Paul approached the Athenians in Acts of the Apostles 17 ( particularly Acts of the Apostles 17:18-34). Within the Bible translations I know best ( KJV, NKJV, RSV) it sounds that Paul either mildly chides them for being superstitious or seems to commend them for being religious in verse 21. I tend to believe that he commended their religious tendencies and preached the Gospel as a fulfillment of whatever truth they knew in part. Paul seemed to receive a mixed, & overall mild, reaction ( as compared elsewhere in Acts). So this must be the approach to try to imitate.


( note: the CF Bible translation link goes with Paul commending the Athenian religious tendency).

I am probably talking to a brick wall.

 

[Sketcher]

I'm not hear to preach Buddhism (don't worry we don't usually do that), but I will quote a little bit of a Buddhist scripture in order to ask a question.
The Kalamas were a group of people who had been visited my many different teachers... So when the Buddha came they asked this question:

....the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some brahmans and contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. And then other brahmans and contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound and glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, and disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain and in doubt: Which of these venerable brahmans and contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

I won't give the Buddha's response as that's not the point of this post.

*** .... Can I ask the Christians the same question that the Buddha was asked.. how do Christians respond when asked this kind of question?

The attitude of the person giving the message doesn't really have bearing on the truth of the message. It says something about the messenger, but not necessarily about the message.

I can give a message diplomatically, or I can give it divisively. That doesn't make it more or less true. One approach may make me a more effective messenger and may lend more credibility to what I'm trying to say (imagine someone arrogantly trashing arrogant people - probably not too effective) but what's true is true no matter what.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

The attitude of the person giving the message doesn't really have bearing on the truth of the message.

So how do you hello somebody know this what you are telling them is the truth? What criteria can you give them in order to reckon the truth?
Or is it a matter of honestly presenting the truth and letting the light shine through it?
I agree, trashing others doesn't prove anything.

Here is a link to the Buddha's response to this question, I wonder if this works for Christians too.. I've seen some Christian testimonies where there is a real transformation of that person. Those of the kind of stories that really make me sit up and listen.

Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas

 

[Sketcher]

So how do you hello somebody know this what you are telling them is the truth? What criteria can you give them in order to reckon the truth?
Or is it a matter of honestly presenting the truth and letting the light shine through it?
I agree, trashing others doesn't prove anything.

I take it with a grain of salt and verify what I can.

With what I do for a living, if someone reports a problem, I check it out, but it's often not the problem that people thought it was when it was reported to me. I try to "trust, but verify" though sometimes I will be skeptical instead.