The Jew's view of the Christian

[Songsmith]

For those of you who are Jewish I have a question for you. Do you believe that the Christian worships the same God as is worshiped by the Jewish people, or in your view are they completely different? I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Do you get angry when I say that I study the old testament with the idea that it points toward Jesus as your Messiah and that He is the human expression of God Himself? Or is it simply laughable to you?

I would say that we do indeed worship the same God, though your still looking forward to a Messiah while I'm looking backward to the one who came. Anyway, I would like to understand more about the Jewish people and their views on God, the Christian, and how they approach the Father.

 

[LoAmmi]

For those of you who are Jewish I have a question for you. Do you believe that the Christian worships the same God as is worshiped by the Jewish people, or in your view are they completely different?

I think Christians intend to worship the same, so I believe that He knows. I think that if a Jew were to worship like you do, however, that person would be guilty of idolatry.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Do you get angry when I say that I study the old testament with the idea that it points toward Jesus as your Messiah and that He is the human expression of God Himself? Or is it simply laughable to you?

I don't care if Christians have a different interpretation in general. I find a lot of the interpretations to be very, very wrong but if you have it that's fine. I do care, however, when I'm told what I should believe, what I should interpret it as and when I point out how Jews do it I'm told that I'm wrong. Most Christians can't even begin to point out how it's wrong, just that I obviously am wrong because it isn't their interpretation.

I would say that we do indeed worship the same God, though your still looking forward to a Messiah while I'm looking backward to the one who came. Anyway, I would like to understand more about the Jewish people and their views on God, the Christian, and how they approach the Father.

I think, to be honest, there's an over emphasis on the Messiah from Christians when they look at Jews. The Messiah is important, but hardly the most important. We look forward to the Messianic age more than the Messiah. The Messiah is the tool not the craftsman if that makes sense.

 

[Songsmith]

I think, to be honest, there's an over emphasis on the Messiah from Christians when they look at Jews. The Messiah is important, but hardly the most important. We look forward to the Messianic age more than the Messiah. The Messiah is the tool not the craftsman if that makes sense.

Wow, that is news to me. Is this a view that is shared by the majority of the Hebrews or are you sharing a more personal view? That does shed some light on some things for me. I cannot divorce the Messiah from the person of Jesus and I cannot worship God without recognizing the Godhood of Jesus. I guess that means that for me the Messiah central to worship. I can't even approach the Father without the cleansing of sin by the work of Jesus on the cross. Interesting insight. Thank you.

 

[LoAmmi]

Wow, that is news to me. Is this a view that is shared by the majority of the Hebrews or are you sharing a more personal view?

Well, as I said, the Messiah is important, but no more important than David. The fact that our text so often refers to the Messiah as either David or son of David bears this out. This is a pretty universal Jewish view.

Jews look forward to the Messiah coming because of what it means; the restoration of Israel, world peace, Jews being vindicated for their years of suffering at the hands of those who thought we wrong by them coming to us for the knowledge of HaShem they lack.

 

[BobRyan]

For those of you who are Jewish I have a question for you. Do you believe that the Christian worships the same God as is worshiped by the Jewish people, or in your view are they completely different? I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Do you get angry when I say that I study the old testament with the idea that it points toward Jesus as your Messiah and that He is the human expression of God Himself? Or is it simply laughable to you?

I would say that we do indeed worship the same God, though your still looking forward to a Messiah while I'm looking backward to the one who came. Anyway, I would like to understand more about the Jewish people and their views on God, the Christian, and how they approach the Father.

In the New Testament - the Christian Jews like Paul (a Pharisee) stated that the Jews viewed Christianity as a sect of Judaism.

And of course the emphasis on the Messiah in the first century was pretty high for the Jews - because of Daniel 9 placing a 490 year timeline from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of the Messiah. Once that period was fully elapsed - the 2nd century A.D. and afterward - the Jews came up with a "Messianic Age" as opposed to "Messiah"

 

[LoAmmi]

And of course the emphasis on the Messiah in the first century was pretty high for the Jews - because of Daniel 9 placing a 490 year timeline from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of the Messiah. Once that period was fully elapsed - the 2nd century A.D. and afterward - the Jews came up with a "Messianic Age" as opposed to "Messiah"

Does the New Testament even claim that this Daniel prophecy was coming to pass and it had to be then? The text of Daniel talks about the destruction of the Temple, I see no reference to David, son of David, or any other title that refers to the Messiah in there.

 

[BabylonWeary]

Does the New Testament even claim that this Daniel prophecy was coming to pass and it had to be then? The text of Daniel talks about the destruction of the Temple, I see no reference to David, son of David, or any other title that refers to the Messiah in there.

If it's about the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, which is mentioned in Daniel 9:7, there is a similar statement in Matthew 10:5-7, which is about preaching to the lost sheep of Israel, but...

 

[LoAmmi]

If it's about the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, which is mentioned in Daniel 9:7, there is a similar statement in Matthew 10:5-7, which is about preaching to the lost sheep of Israel, but...

Yes, but that's not really referencing this idea that the Messiah had to come at that period of time. If this was a common belief, shouldn't I believe the New Testament would be trumpeting that from the rooftops because it would be like a checkmate. The New Testament, to my knowledge, does not mention it so I am left to believe this Daniel 9 thing was not seen at the time but developed later by Christians to point to their Messiah claimant.

 

[LoAmmi]

Most Jews that really are orthodox do not spend any time whatsoever conversing with Christians (its not kosher). (I personally have had some Jewish bloggers tell me this and they ceased communication for that very reason.)

It has nothing to do with Kosher or not, as in nothing to do with Jewish law. It might be taboo in some communities because Christians were historically viewed as oppressors and one doesn't make nice with oppressors, but I live in the United States in 2015 and I am not oppressed by Christians.

My older half-brother is a Catholic. He was not born of a Jewish mother but a Catholic one so I have had significant exposure to Christians my entire life. The people I work with are Christians, the people I play D&D with are Christians or atheists. I don't fear Christians nor do I feel I must treat them as any different than myself with the one exception of knowing they don't have to keep the Torah and I would never encourage them to do so.

These Jewish bloggers might also be using it as an excuse not to talk to you.

 

[LoAmmi]

I find support in the fact that you are one of two (and the other rarely comments) who claim Judaism as their religion, and whom I have seen on this forum in the last 5 yrs. I have not seen any others.

Believe what you want. I gave you the correct answer and if you want to harbor the idea that Jews hate Christians you are welcome to harbor it.

 

[Masihi]

For those of you who are Jewish I have a question for you. Do you believe that the Christian worships the same God as is worshiped by the Jewish people, or in your view are they completely different? I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Do you get angry when I say that I study the old testament with the idea that it points toward Jesus as your Messiah and that He is the human expression of God Himself? Or is it simply laughable to you?

I would say that we do indeed worship the same God, though your still looking forward to a Messiah while I'm looking backward to the one who came. Anyway, I would like to understand more about the Jewish people and their views on God, the Christian, and how they approach the Father.

I don't wish to veer from the main thread.
From news reports coming from orthodox Jews in Israel, messianic Jews, Christians, I suspect the majority of Jews think Christians worship the same Gd of the OT.

 

[cloudyday2]

Jews look forward to the Messiah coming because of what it means; the restoration of Israel, world peace, Jews being vindicated for their years of suffering at the hands of those who thought we wrong by them coming to us for the knowledge of HaShem they lack.

How common is belief in the Messiah? I tend to think of Jews as atheists or agnostics who practice their religion to express pride in their heritage. It's always very surprising when I read that some Jews believe these types of things. What percentage of Jews actually hope for a Messianic age would you guess?

 

[LoAmmi]

How common is belief in the Messiah? I tend to think of Jews as atheists or agnostics who practice their religion to express pride in their heritage. It's always very surprising when I read that some Jews believe these types of things. What percentage of Jews actually hope for a Messianic age would you guess?

Any religious Jew, I would say, to some level hopes for a Messianic age. The reform branch, I believe, doesn't necessarily think of it as a Messiah person coming but only the age, but that varies. Maimonides listed hope for the coming of the Messiah among the principles of the faith.

 

[Zoness]

Any religious Jew, I would say, to some level hopes for a Messianic age. The reform branch, I believe, doesn't necessarily think of it as a Messiah person coming but only the age, but that varies. Maimonides listed hope for the coming of the Messiah among the principles of the faith.

(Slightly off topic)

Have you ever read Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed? I always had interest in reading it but I wondered if it would be a little dense if I wasn't Jewish or Christian, as some of the ideas may not apply to me directly.

 

[LoAmmi]

(Slightly off topic)

Have you ever read Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed? I always had interest in reading it but I wondered if it would be a little dense if I wasn't Jewish or Christian, as some of the ideas may not apply to me directly.

Not cover to cover, but I'd probably read all of it in spurts. If you like that kind of writing, I"d say it'd be worth a read even if you aren't Jewish. Kind of like reading Aquinas.

 

[smaneck]

(Slightly off topic)

Have you ever read Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed? I always had interest in reading it but I wondered if it would be a little dense if I wasn't Jewish or Christian, as some of the ideas may not apply to me directly.

All medieval stuff is dense, at least if it is worth reading.

 

[Zoness]

All medieval stuff is dense, at least if it is worth reading.

Touché

 

[BabylonWeary]

Yes, but that's not really referencing this idea that the Messiah had to come at that period of time. If this was a common belief, shouldn't I believe the New Testament would be trumpeting that from the rooftops because it would be like a checkmate. The New Testament, to my knowledge, does not mention it so I am left to believe this Daniel 9 thing was not seen at the time but developed later by Christians to point to their Messiah claimant.

My understanding is Christianity and Judaism share common origins but have followed different paths in history, so I am uncertain how to make the comparison. To me, the book of Daniel is fascinating, but to be reading about dreams and visions, and then a number such as "seventy weeks", and I don't know if Daniel is even supposed to be making prophecies at the time? To me it's not that important, maybe is more important to others. I'm certain you will recognize Messiah, it'll be obvious, is not really a competition between Christians and Jews to see who gets who into checkmate.

The gospel does warn about the abomination of desolation, but it's in the same place as a warning about false prophets as well. Matthew 24:5 says "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many," and then there's Matthew 24:15, which mentions Daniel the prophet. I think, but I'm no great scholar so maybe I am mistaken, but that could have to do with Baal or Moloch, or maybe Zeus or something, though considering the first person point of view in the book of Daniel and how that relates to certain images described there...

I'm curious to know what is the significance of the Word in Judaism, or if that is only meaningful in Christianity. There is the word "word" and then there's the Word, or Logos, and the gospel according to John that could be an uncomfortable read for some Jews. I know just enough about Judaism to know that Torah is a big deal, how that is given through Moses. Maybe Jesus is Torah for Christians, if that makes sense, or the book of Deuteronomy is just too perplexing. There are certain words, or Names, in the Bible which seem to be somewhat misleading, I think.

 

[Robban]

For those of you who are Jewish I have a question for you. Do you believe that the Christian worships the same God as is worshiped by the Jewish people, or in your view are they completely different? I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Do you get angry when I say that I study the old testament with the idea that it points toward Jesus as your Messiah and that He is the human expression of God Himself? Or is it simply laughable to you?

I would say that we do indeed worship the same God, though your still looking forward to a Messiah while I'm looking backward to the one who came. Anyway, I would like to understand more about the Jewish people and their views on God, the Christian, and how they approach the Father.

What more or less settled it for me was stumbling over the following statement, (Divine Providence?)
Because I,m sure I needed to be calmed down.

It is from a statement that appears in the early editions of Rambam which the censors did not manage to lay their hands on.

"All those wordsof Yeshua of Nazareth and of that Ishmalite who rose after him will only serve to pave the way for the coming of the King Mashiach and for the improvement of the entire World (motivating the nations) to serve G-d together as is written."

Zephaniah 3:9

If I hate anything, it is argueing.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Most Jews that really are orthodox do not spend any time whatsoever conversing with Christians (its not kosher). (I personally have had some Jewish bloggers tell me this and they ceased communication for that very reason.)

And I’m sure that had to be the reason they stopped talking to you…